Conservative doublethink on the first amendment

B_VinylBoy

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If it's truly Freedom of Religion, then our nation shouldn't be governing on the basis of predictions, prophecy or rules as listed in ANY religion... even if it is Christianity. Doesn't matter if it's the most popular religion in our country either.
 

workandplay243

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If it's truly Freedom of Religion, then our nation shouldn't be governing on the basis of predictions, prophecy or rules as listed in ANY religion... even if it is Christianity. Doesn't matter if it's the most popular religion in our country either.

I assert that our laws have thier roots in Christianity. The teachings of prophecy is a side note to the teachings of Christian ethics.
 

parr

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So why wasn't Godfather's Pizza closed on the Sabbath? Cain seemed to disregard that rule in the Bible about working or doing business on that day.

So for those who cheer "getting back to biblical principles" are you also willing to follow Christ's direction to do all you can to help those less fortunate?

That's because Herman Cain isn't Jewish.:rolleyes:
 

1kmb1

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Common sense dictates that what occured in the past in the Bible and the severity of punishment was law at that time, and to simply say we need to bring back stonings, burnings, etc. is idiotic. There's a whole bunch of stuff like this in the old testament, it is a matter of history and it is what happened.
The entire bible can be summed up in 2 commandments. Maybe you could guess what they are, maybe not, or more than likely maybe you don't care.
How about we do this: we shall hangeth a man and bind him, mouth and hands, and covereth his face, round about make a noose and shall snap his neck and waiteth until his feet stop kickething for stealing a horse.
or,
We shall tieth a man down to chair and zappeth electricity until his eyes poppeth out and extrudeth out of his skull until he is deadeth.
And on and on...

The old testament and it's teachings, 'eye for an eye', etc., and the history of man's wrong at that time and the way God dealt with his people is what it is. The old testament and it's history of God, man, Lucifer, angels, fallen angels, creation, wickedness, goodness, ... and the predictions and prophecy of the new testament is what a common Christian should be focusing on. Not how we can bring back old testament laws, and apply them today. The apparent contradictions between the old and new testament are just that, apparent. You can open up, take a verse, out of the old and then say, look, it says to kill a man for working on the sabbath. But open the new and says, no, you should forgive your neighbor 70 times 7. Turn the other cheek, Forgive, love.... etc. What would your God given conscience tell you to do? Is the bible contradicting itself? Of course not, you must look at the entire scope and the good and hope that comes from it.

The new testament. Why were there so many parables as a method of teaching? Hardened hearts? Like yourself?
Those seeing would see and those seeing not would see not.

I personally see the old testament as a history of man, evil and good and the way God dealt with wickedness, sin, etc. - and it's future prophecies.
This is certainly a view not just held by myself and myself alone.

have you even read the new testament? its full of who to kill, and how to kill them scenarios.

you dont get to cherry pick which parts of the bible you want to follow. you either embrace the killings and pick up a stone, or youre a hypocrite, and probably going to hell according to your own beliefs.

it's history of God, man, Lucifer, angels, fallen angels, creation, wickedness, goodness

read a damn harry potter book.
 

oralslut464

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I do think we have lost our way. I really get angry when we are free to worship as we please and then people who are opposed to anything religious oppose to our worship. I am suspicious of Islam because Sharia Law is part of thier religions belief. As a Christian, I believe in behaving a certain way due to the Bible and my moral beliefs, but in Islam, they do the same thing, but their laws create violence, like beheading, cutting off a hand, etc when it goes agains their religions belief. When this happens, then that crosses the line. That is the difference.
 

oralslut464

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Show me in the New TEstament where it tells you to kill another persson. It is in the old testament - but I can't find it in the new testament.
 

1kmb1

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Show me in the New TEstament where it tells you to kill another persson. It is in the old testament - but I can't find it in the new testament.


off the top of my head? Romans 1, somewhere near the end outlines who should be killed.

Mathew 10:14&15 "14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgement than for that town."

some nice child murder.

Mathew 15:4 "For God said,* “Honour your father and your mother,” and, “Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.”

theres some good old fashioned slavery and revenge killing in mathew 21:33 to like 45?

oh, and the there is this gem, straight from jesus that clearly states all the killing in the old testament still applies.

Mathew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets" clearly states that old testament laws still apply.

jesus, thats mostly just mathew.... the first part... how much did you read exactly?
 

B_VinylBoy

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I assert that our laws have thier roots in Christianity. The teachings of prophecy is a side note to the teachings of Christian ethics.

That's fine if you want to believe that. But our country was also built on the idea of the separation of church and state. Laws to govern a country, and laws for spiritual enlightenment are completely different and are meant to be separate. So even if you're swayed to believe or follow a certain church's teachings (such as Christianity), to pass legislation so that everyone else who doesn't follow that religion are forced to adhere to those teachings is wrong. That goes completely against the concept of Freedom of Religion.

And you can go ahead and believe otherwise if you wish. But let it be known, I'm also a Christian as well. But I would never suggest or try to force anyone to seek spirituality in the same fashion as I do.
 

Calboner

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I do think we have lost our way. I really get angry when we are free to worship as we please and then people who are opposed to anything religious oppose to our worship.
What do you mean when you say that anti-religious people "oppose to your worship"? Do you mean that they regard it as a foolish and deluded exercise? That they do; what is your objection to their doing so? Or do you mean that they make some sort of attempt to prevent you from worshiping as you will? If that is your claim, then I would like to see some evidence to support it.
I am suspicious of Islam because Sharia Law is part of thier religions belief. As a Christian, I believe in behaving a certain way due to the Bible and my moral beliefs, but in Islam, they do the same thing,
Up to this point, you seem to be acknowledging the equivalence between the two on this point. The word "but" before "in Islam, they do the same thing" is surely an error. The sentence does not make sense unless it is replaced with the word "and." Now to resume the quotation, where you state what the point of contrast is supposed to be:
but their laws create violence, like beheading, cutting off a hand, etc when it goes agains their religions belief. When this happens, then that crosses the line. That is the difference.
Yes, there are Islamic countries where such barbarous punishments are carried out—pretty much as was done in all the countries of Christendom until modern times, when religion lost its grip over the making of laws and the administration of justice. So if you mean to make a comparison between countries under Christian law and countries under Islamic law, you must compare European countries of a few hundred years ago against Islamic countries of today. And not even all Islamic countries: not Turkey or Indonesia or Pakistan, say, but Saudi Arabia, where the Wahhabi variety of Islam prevails. If you can show that the administration of punishment in Saudi Arabia is more cruel or arbitrary or unjust than in, say, medieval England or Spain or France or Italy—which I very much doubt you can do—then you might have a point.

That point, however, would not still support a case against the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro. What reason can you offer for believing, first, that the religious association in question advocates the same sort of interpretation of shariah law as the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia, and second, that it seeks to impose that law on anyone outside of its own membership? If you cannot provide support for both of these points, then your position is as ignorant and baseless as that of Mr. Cain.
 

StormfrontFL

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I can't speak for 'Godfather's Pizza'.

Within reason, we should help out, of course.
I sincerely hope you are simply pretending to be dense. I'm sure most reasonable and rational people understand my question about Godfather's Pizza operating on the Sabbath. If the people who claim we need to return to biblical rules and principles are genuine then I'm sure they don't do anything on the Sabbath except pray. No going out to dinner. No preparing meals at home(cooking is work and no work is to be done). Red Lobster? Ha! They are out of business after all the Bible prohibits the eating of shellfish. Michelle Bachmann? She offends me so if I, a man, order her to remain silent then she must obey since the Bible states that women must submit to the will of men.
I really hate so called Christians who pick and choose the parts they want to believe. And just so you know Jesus also believed that God and government should remain separate. He did state "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and render unto God that which is God's". The government of man is not to be connected to the work of God.
 

StormfrontFL

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I assert that our laws have thier roots in Christianity. The teachings of prophecy is a side note to the teachings of Christian ethics.

Only two of the "Big 10" are laws, "Thou shalt not kill" and " Thou shalt not steal".

But if you radical Christians get your way then the quarries are gonna do big business with all the stonings to take place...adultery, homosexuality, kids who talk back to their parents, straights who have sex before marriage. Wow! There won't be anyone left alive.
 

workandplay243

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That's fine if you want to believe that. But our country was also built on the idea of the separation of church and state. Laws to govern a country, and laws for spiritual enlightenment are completely different and are meant to be separate. So even if you're swayed to believe or follow a certain church's teachings (such as Christianity), to pass legislation so that everyone else who doesn't follow that religion are forced to adhere to those teachings is wrong. That goes completely against the concept of Freedom of Religion.

And you can go ahead and believe otherwise if you wish. But let it be known, I'm also a Christian as well. But I would never suggest or try to force anyone to seek spirituality in the same fashion as I do.


I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United states of America, and to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Sound familiar?
 
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StormfrontFL

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United states of America, and to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

This part was added in the 1950s as a reaction to the anti Communist McCarthy hearings. If this was so important it would have been added long before.
 

workandplay243

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Only two of the "Big 10" are laws, "Thou shalt not kill" and " Thou shalt not steal".

But if you radical Christians get your way then the quarries are gonna do big business with all the stonings to take place...adultery, homosexuality, kids who talk back to their parents, straights who have sex before marriage. Wow! There won't be anyone left alive.

If you're perfect, then go ahead and cast the first stone. 'Radical Christian' oh? Is that what I am? I don't appreciate you using your 'morsels of knowledge' to define who I am.
 

StormfrontFL

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If you're perfect, then go ahead and cast the first stone. 'Radical Christian' oh? Is that what I am? I don't appreciate you using your 'morsels of knowledge' to define who I am.
Never claimed I was perfect. I only think it's hypocritical to talk about how great it is to return to Christian principles when one has pictures of their cock posted for all to see. Believe what you will, I encourage you to. I have my own beliefs. I believe what Christ said when he said to love God first and my fellow man second. I also believe what is taught that a relationship with God can't and shouldn't be forced on others because if it isn't genuine it is meaningless. My problem is with those who want to make everyone else believe as they do. You once posted about putting prayer and the Bible back in school but if you really believed in freedom of religion you would have to agree that all religions would then have to be taught.
 

B_VinylBoy

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United states of America, and to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Sound familiar?

Yeah, it does. Alas, you probably didn't know that the Pledge of Allegiance was originally composed by Francis Bellamy in 1892 and formally adopted by Congress as the national pledge in 1942.

And who was Francis Bellamy - an author, editor, and Baptist minister born in Mount Morris, New York. He attended Rome Free Academy in Rome, New York, the University of Rochester and the Rochester Theological Seminary.

In other words... the Pledge of Allegiance was created by the church as an attempt to further associate Christianity with the governing body of our nation. Kinda like what's happening now with certain people in this thread and various GOP hopefuls such as Bachmann, Cain (and eventually Perry because we all know he's gonna enter into the race eventually). It had NOTHING to do with the original roots or laws as written by the Founding Fathers, as they were all DEAD by the time this was even written and the majority of them being dead before Francis was even born.

Oops. :rolleyes:
 

workandplay243

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have you even read the new testament? its full of who to kill, and how to kill them scenarios.

you dont get to cherry pick which parts of the bible you want to follow. you either embrace the killings and pick up a stone, or youre a hypocrite, and probably going to hell according to your own beliefs.


read a damn harry potter book.

But hell doesn't exist, right? only in the minds of the demented and deranged. So that must be you: demented and deranged.

I don't like harry potter books or movies. I think YOU would be best suited to indulge in its fantasies.
 

workandplay243

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Yeah, it does. Alas, you probably didn't know that the Pledge of Allegiance was originally composed by Francis Bellamy in 1892 and formally adopted by Congress as the national pledge in 1942.

And who was Francis Bellamy - an author, editor, and Baptist minister born in Mount Morris, New York. He attended Rome Free Academy in Rome, New York, the University of Rochester and the Rochester Theological Seminary.

In other words... the Pledge of Allegiance was created by the church as an attempt to further associate Christianity with the governing body of our nation. Kinda like what's happening now with certain people in this thread and various GOP hopefuls such as Bachmann, Cain (and eventually Perry because we all know he's gonna enter into the race eventually). It had NOTHING to do with the original roots or laws as written by the Founding Fathers, as they were all DEAD by the time this was even written and the majority of them being dead before Francis was even born.

Oops. :rolleyes:

Why are you tieing the founding fathers into this? isn't that in another forum thread?

Oops what? Oops there it is?

Shouldn't we be talking about doublethinking the first amendment? Mr. grassroots for president, I say.
 

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But hell doesn't exist, right? only in the minds of the demented and deranged. So that must be you: demented and deranged.

I don't like harry potter books or movies. I think YOU would be best suited to indulge in its fantasies.

thats not very christian like.