Conservatives and repubs only pls. A silver lining to recession

[stratedude]

I thought I responded to this already but apparently not. I guess I'll just do it again since I am one of maybe only 3 conservative/republican posters here.

It will be, IMHO, much more difficult to push socialist, tax-rich policies through in a period of economic and financial turmoil. Most constituents, in dire economic times, will be resistent to heavy handed tax policy and liberal spending practices.

If the Dems converged with prosperous economic times, inflicting harmful socialist-type government initiatives would not be met with nearly as much resistance. A thriving stock market and growing economy would be a candy-store mentality for Pelosi and friends in passing harmful and far-reaching anti-business legislation.

Well, if we can say that a majority of voters believe that we are headed for, or are already in dire economic times,

and we can say that a majority of voters would not like a heavy handed tax policy, or socialist-type government initiatives during those economic times,

and we can convince a majotity of voters that the only way to cut taxes on 95% of voters is to put a huge hike on taxes on the other 5% (i.e. heavy handed Obama tax policy),

and we can convince a majority of voters that frivolous socialist-type government initiatives like the ones Obama would push for are going to drain our economy,

then McCain should win in a landslide!

The problem is that the voters either:
A) Don't believe in the dire economic times
B) Wouldn't mind the heavy handed taxes, or liberal spending practices during dire times
C) Don't see that Obama's tax plan is actually in fact "heavy handed" overall
D) Don't believe that socialism is a drain on our economy
E) any or all of the above.


I don't see the silver lining. The most effective way to resist a heavy handed tax policy and liberal spending practices is to vote for McCAin over Obama.

 

[stratedude]

If we are doing honest opinions, here's mine.

The United States is going to go the way that the U.S.S.R. did when the cold war ended. We will collapse our government, not because of a revolution, but because we just can't afford it any longer.

As a gay man, I *GREATLY* resent the fact that the goverment bent me over the table and raped me financially for a bail out that hasn't done a damn thing except get worse. And I didn't even get a thank you. I got a: It's for the greater good. Why does the greater good have to come at MY expense? What good does it do me to play by the rules only to be shafted by Congress?

As someone with common sense, I sit here baffled by the "experts" who, just today, are telling the world that it looks like the market is finally hitting a bottom. Are these the same experts that when oil was at $130 + a barrell that we can expect oil futres to go up to $500 a barrell?? Where are they getting these predictions from and why is no one challenging them on it?

It looks like the U.S.A. is going to be transformed into the U.S.S.A. and half the population doesn't care! In fact, they seem to be embracing it! And some of the conservative radio shows I listen to are saying how good this will be if Sen. Obama gets elected because that will cause the base to become even more solidified for the next election. And that the Liberals will come to regret their vote before the Conservatives will.

That line of thinking is so wrong I don't even know how they can spout it. "Throw up the white flag of defeat! Conservative principles have lost! But it will work out great for us for the next election (we hope)."

I remember in the second debate (the Town Hall) Sen. Obama, when asked a question about the financial crisis told the questionaire: "I know you don't want to see a bunch of finger pointing." You're wrong Sen. Obama, I WANT FINGER POINTING. I want every member of the House and Senate that had their fingers in the pie prosecuted and sent to jail. Not the country club retreat of a jail, but the jails that house murderers and rapists. I want people to pay! I don't want justice, because that's just a farce. I want revenge, pure and simple!

What was even worse, WORSE, was that John McCain didn't even call him on it. In the past two debates, Sen. McCain had several opprotunities to call Sen. Obama out on specifics and failed to do so:

When Tom Brokaw asked about three points (I forget what they were, sorry about that) and what priority they would have in the administration of each candidate, Sen. McCain said they could all be done in the first year if we could Congress to work with the White House on them.

Sen. Obama listed those programs in a priority order. Sen. McCain should have jumped all over him for hypocrasy (sp). When Sen. McCain suspended his campaign to go back to Washington and work on the bail out, Sen. Obama critisized him for doing that and basically said that he could do both (run for President and work on the bill). It was like call me if you need me. If he couldn't see that the worst financial crisis in 78 was a priority, I would have called him on his judgement.

What Sen. McCain said early in the campaign still rings true to me about the Iraq War: Sen. Obama would rather lose the war, to win the Presidency. Here, Sen. Obama would rather win the Presidency than help the country.

There were a few other areas, but to be honest, I've been at work for 14 hours and am a bit brain dead. Sorry if this has been a bit jagged and disjointed.


Thanks for listening,


Sklar
Gay, Jewish, Republican & Veteran

P.S. Starinvestor: It's ok to have rules for a thread, I've done them myself. But to blatantly tell people: No offense to liberals and Dems, but I don't really need to get 'you're a troll' and 'insane' and 'wacko' etc. on this thread. Please pile onto other threads for these thoughtful remarks.

It's wrong. You should be welcoming the discourse that you know is going to come. All you had to do was tell people to be polite with their responses. For the most part, people on here will be polite if you ask them.

QTF!

 

[Nrets]

LOL, I just bet you cannot find that article! Maybe you should look in My Imagination Monthly or Tinfoil Hat Quarterly :wink: That’s the biggest bunch of cockamamie horse shit I have seen in a few days here and make no mistake, you have plenty of competition.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/04/army_1stID_brigade_070417/

 

[houtx48]

looks to me like the repubs are the new democrats............spend spend spend

 

[mindseye]

The only thing is, you can't draw funds from the the 'evil' side of the Mississippi to fund your programs.

Good luck.

And with an absent working class, you'll be confounded in figuring out how to run an economy while exploiting each other. Yay!

 

[B_starinvestor]

And with an absent working class, you'll be confounded in figuring out how to run an economy while exploiting each other. Yay!

We'll have the 'rednecks' from Jack Murtha's district. And the guys that hang out at Home Depot with Lunchpail Joe Biden.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Why is it that the liberal Democrats keep insisting that This is all caused by the Republicans? Just because it happened while Bush was in office doesn't make it so. This was yrs in the makeing and caused by the Dems and Reps alike. If you look at both parties there are very few true Dems and Reps. The most bitching I hear is comming from the Dems and they are refusing to become bipartsian to help fix this mess whats that say about themselfs?

And the most bitching we hear from the Republicans is their constant passing the buck to the Clinton or other past Democratic administrations for today's failures. Why else would they try to blame Clinton for 9/11 and even go back as far as Carter to blame the current economic meltdown?

With both sides shouting this pseudo-nonsense, it makes it very difficult for anyone to find a middle ground and fix the issue. In some ways, I don't think most politicians even want to find a resolution at all.

 

[1BiGG1]

3rd Brigade, 1st ID, begins anew at Hood - Army News, opinions, editorials, news from Iraq, photos, reports - Army Times

Nothing there, try again :wink:

 

[tripod]

Its interesting that you bring this up. I would welcome this with opened arms. Split the country by the Mississippi River. The libs/dems can take any side they want. We will split--the liberals can have one side, the repubs can take the other. The libs can promote their convictions and nationalized healthare, tax policy, welfare benefits...anything you want. The only thing is, you can't draw funds from the the 'evil' side of the Mississippi to fund your programs.

Good luck.

Better yet... I think that we should have another civil war!!!!!

The whole world will come to the aid of the liberals and you guys will be fucking toast.

 

[faceking]

The Journal doesn't seem to think so. Saw this in today's edition. I find the combination of sticking to businesses with tax increases, take away their free trade, and take away the economic outsourcing of low level functions, and require those jobs back in the US at 3x the cost. What do you think that will do?

Up the social security tax, as well as enforcement of health care services by corporate America (whom will in turn just make their employees pay for it, one way or another... higher out of pockets, take away 401k matching, etc...), a shaky markets, and lack of investor confidence.... I just don't see much of an influx (compared to what we saw from 1998-2008).

Also, take the baby boomer generation hitting retirement RIGHT NOW... and the liquidation of all those IRAs, 401Ks, etc... over the next 4 years, and then 4 more. Buh bye.

So where is the new Obama administration likely to take us? Seven things seem certain:

• The U.S. military will withdraw from Iraq quickly and substantially, regardless of conditions on the ground or the obvious consequence of emboldening terrorists there and around the globe.
• Protectionism will become our national trade policy; free trade agreements with other nations will be reduced and limited.
• Income taxes will rise on middle- and upper-income people and businesses, and individuals will pay much higher Social Security taxes, all to carry out the new president's goals of "spreading the wealth around."
• Federal government spending will substantially increase. The new Obama proposals come to more than $300 billion annually, for education, health care, energy, environmental and many other programs, in addition to whatever is needed to meet our economic challenges. Mr. Obama proposes more than a 10% annual spending growth increase, considerably higher than under the first President Bush (6.7%), Bill Clinton (3.3%) or George W. Bush (6.4%).
• Federal regulation of the economy will expand, on everything from financial management companies to electricity generation and personal energy use.
• The power of labor unions will substantially increase, beginning with repeal of secret ballot voting to decide on union representation.
• Free speech will be curtailed through the reimposition of the Fairness Doctrine to limit the conservative talk radio that so irritates the liberal establishment.

These policy changes will be the beginning of the Europeanization of America. There will be many more public policy changes with similar goals—nationalized health care, Kyoto-like global-warming policies, and increased education regulation and spending.

 

[Elmer Gantry]

As someone with common sense, I sit here baffled by the "experts" who, just today, are telling the world that it looks like the market is finally hitting a bottom. Are these the same experts that when oil was at $130 + a barrell that we can expect oil futres to go up to $500 a barrell?? Where are they getting these predictions from and why is no one challenging them on it?

This was all smoke and mirrors speculation and goes hand in hand with what several OPEC sources were saying at the time. The claim was that production was easily keeping track with consumption but not necessarily with demand.

So where was it going?

Straight into hedge funds and investment banks as speculative futures contracts. It was viewed as a potential way for some of them to dig themselves out of a hole. Lehmann Bros is one that comes to mind.

No one challenges them because they are "experts" in suits who know better than you and me.

On another note, I was re reading some historical bits on the French Revolution recently and the parallels gave me a creepy feeling. Out of touch and incompetent administration racks up massive debt through unpopular overseas wars and is then hit with the double whammy of domestic economic turmoil caused by high food prices. Beforesaid incompetents then station troops around national capitol for civilian control only to loose complete control of the country.

Substitute food for oil and you're nearly there.

 

[B_starinvestor]

The Journal doesn't seem to think so. Saw this in today's edition. I find the combination of sticking to businesses with tax increases, take away their free trade, and take away the economic outsourcing of low level functions, and require those jobs back in the US at 3x the cost. What do you think that will do?

Up the social security tax, as well as enforcement of health care services by corporate America (whom will in turn just make their employees pay for it, one way or another... higher out of pockets, take away 401k matching, etc...), a shaky markets, and lack of investor confidence.... I just don't see much of an influx (compared to what we saw from 1998-2008).

Also, take the baby boomer generation hitting retirement RIGHT NOW... and the liquidation of all those IRAs, 401Ks, etc... over the next 4 years, and then 4 more. Buh bye.

So where is the new Obama administration likely to take us? Seven things seem certain:

• The U.S. military will withdraw from Iraq quickly and substantially, regardless of conditions on the ground or the obvious consequence of emboldening terrorists there and around the globe.
• Protectionism will become our national trade policy; free trade agreements with other nations will be reduced and limited.
• Income taxes will rise on middle- and upper-income people and businesses, and individuals will pay much higher Social Security taxes, all to carry out the new president's goals of "spreading the wealth around."
• Federal government spending will substantially increase. The new Obama proposals come to more than $300 billion annually, for education, health care, energy, environmental and many other programs, in addition to whatever is needed to meet our economic challenges. Mr. Obama proposes more than a 10% annual spending growth increase, considerably higher than under the first President Bush (6.7%), Bill Clinton (3.3%) or George W. Bush (6.4%).
• Federal regulation of the economy will expand, on everything from financial management companies to electricity generation and personal energy use.
• The power of labor unions will substantially increase, beginning with repeal of secret ballot voting to decide on union representation.
• Free speech will be curtailed through the reimposition of the Fairness Doctrine to limit the conservative talk radio that so irritates the liberal establishment.

These policy changes will be the beginning of the Europeanization of America. There will be many more public policy changes with similar goals—nationalized health care, Kyoto-like global-warming policies, and increased education regulation and spending.

We are on a collision course with European economic fundamentals. Period. We're going there. Our world is changing in one week, and we are turning into Europe. I'm not saying that's good or bad, simply that we will be Europe in a few months.

 

[B_Nick4444]

We are on a collision course with European economic fundamentals. Period. We're going there. Our world is changing in one week, and we are turning into Europe. I'm not saying that's good or bad, simply that we will be Europe in a few months.

definitely bad

 

[SpeedoGuy]

We are on a collision course with European economic fundamentals. Period. We're going there. Our world is changing in one week, and we are turning into Europe. I'm not saying that's good or bad, simply that we will be Europe in a few months.

Worried about becoming like Europe? Then you must hate what we've lately been striving to be: The England of Charles Dickens.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Worried about becoming like Europe? Then you must hate what we've lately been striving to be: The England of Charles Dickens.

I would appreciate being, "American." I like Europe and appreciate Europe, but please give me America.

I have a propensity for protecting our children and our economic and political freedoms....call me crazy. If you don't like freedom or independence, I can appreciate your affinity to all things 'non-American.'

 

[SpeedoGuy]

I have a propensity for protecting our children and our economic and political freedoms....call me crazy.

Are you suggesting the desire to protect children and democratic values is uniquely American? Or are you claiming that for yourself alone?

If you don't like freedom or independence, I can appreciate your affinity to all things 'non-American.'

Way to project your fears onto me.

What makes you say this?

 

[JP0724]

No offense to liberals and Dems, but I don't really need to get 'you're a troll' and 'insane' and 'wacko' etc. on this thread. Please pile onto other threads for these thoughtful remarks.

This is targeted to the right.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Conservatives and repubs:

I believe there may be some silver lining in respect to the convergence of an economic recession and the possibility of a Democratically-dominated Congress and White House.

It will be, IMHO, much more difficult to push socialist, tax-rich policies through in a period of economic and financial turmoil. Most constituents, in dire economic times, will be resistent to heavy handed tax policy and liberal spending practices.

If the Dems converged with prosperous economic times, inflicting harmful socialist-type government initiatives would not be met with nearly as much resistance. A thriving stock market and growing economy would be a candy-store mentality for Pelosi and friends in passing harmful and far-reaching anti-business legislation.

Hopefully this offers some encouraging sentiments in light of an otherwise difficult economic predicament.

To get back to the original post, I agree that it's going to be very difficult for Obama to get through any of his socialist policies when there is no money. I think he will be forced to raise taxes, and when re-election comes the RNC can put his ass to the fire and show the country what a horrible mistake they have made. The Republican party may very well lose the White House to the Dems in 08, but rest assured that if the people give the dems full power over congress, senate,etc.. and the Dems don't deliver anything on their socialist agenda, then the Republicans will be back in power in the next round of elections. I think they are setting themselves up for a huge failure. They are promising all of their sheep that they are going to make it all better and everything is going to perfect, and it's not going to cost any of them any money... and when it doesn't pan out, they're going to pay for it.

Oh an on a side note, as some have mentioned the Clinton years... Why don't you ask someone who isn't poor whether or not the Clinton years were good years. I think you will find a completely different perspective. It's always the american way to focus on the lazy and poor.

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

To get back to the original post, I agree that it's going to be very difficult for Obama to get through any of his socialist policies when there is no money.

What socialist policies? I don't think you know what socialism means. For someone who calls Democrats sheep, you do a great job of buying into the GOP talking points.

I think he will be forced to raise taxes, and when re-election comes the RNC can put his ass to the fire and show the country what a horrible mistake they have made. The Republican party may very well lose the White House to the Dems in 08, but rest assured that if the people give the dems full power over congress, senate,etc.. and the Dems don't deliver anything on their socialist agenda, then the Republicans will be back in power in the next round of elections. I think they are setting themselves up for a huge failure. They are promising all of their sheep that they are going to make it all better and everything is going to perfect, and it's not going to cost any of them any money... and when it doesn't pan out, they're going to pay for it.

It's possible that the Democrats may pass some stupid shit if they are in power of both Congress and the White house, just as Republicans clearly passed some retarded shit while they were in power.

Nobody has said that things are going to be perfect and that it will cost nothing. If you think this, you're more of a sheep to the GOP than any of the people you are criticizing are to their party.

Oh an on a side note, as some have mentioned the Clinton years... Why don't you ask someone who isn't poor whether or not the Clinton years were good years. I think you will find a completely different perspective. It's always the american way to focus on the lazy and poor.

Ah yes, poor people are lazy. Good show. Bootstraps!

 

[midlifebear]

Well, I'm certainly far from poor and the Clinton years were very good to me. When the markets declined I had already dissolved my US interests, save for one, and had gone on to rape and pillage other foreign markets. So far I'm still far from poor. However, my financial success and survival would not have been possible had I not learned two other languages in addition to my native English while attending public school in Ewetaw.

As for the poor being characterized as stereotypically lazy, Sunday I had the Noriega brothers come by to finish the last bit of work I needed to repair and winterize my ranch and repair fencing. I couldn't get any local "contractors" to bother with driving 75 miles out to my place to earn an average of $20 an hour. Nope, they were all insulted that I even asked them. But the Noriega brothers, born and bred in México City D.F. and bearing real green cards showed up for 10 days in a row, starting at 6:00 AM and working their asses off until long after the sun had set. Those young men have been absolutely amazing, armed with basic plumbing, carpentry, and roofing skills. They even reinforced all my decks without me having to ask them. They thought I was being lazy because I didn't see fixing my decks as a priority. And their frugality, having come from a poor country, probably saved me $5,000 in roofing materials. Not all the shake cedar was bad, only bits and pieces. So, they cleaned up the shakes, throwing away the bad ones, and mixed the remaining in with new ones. I now have a better roof on the main house than I would have ended up with if I had actually been able to get a local roofing company to come out and redo the building. But the locals were too busy drinking beer, watching football, and playin' white trash in their aging single-wides in Wells, NV. Nope, they won't work unless it's a Nevada Highway road crew job or cleaning brush for the Forestry Department.

And how did I find these remarkably talented Noriega brothers? They had the initiative to put up fliers with their business cards stapled to them on the grocery store bulletin boards in Alberstons, Smiths, Raleys, and Roys.

Yup, the poor certainly are lazy. Especially those who have migrated from México and Central 'Mericuh.

I like the fact starinvestor and his ilk feel that being Republican and conservative somehow makes them members of an exclusive club. It belies their lack of travel in the USA as well as abroad and their general lack of education. These guys remind me of the days when Jim Crow laws were considered the norm and only white people (no matter how poor or lazy) supposedly had rights.

 

[faceking]

Well, I'm certainly far from poor and the Clinton years were very good to me. When the markets declined I had already dissolved my US interests, save for one, and had gone on to rape and pillage other foreign markets. So far I'm still far from poor. However, my financial success and survival would not have been possible had I not learned two other languages in addition to my native English while attending public school in Ewetaw.

As for the poor being characterized as stereotypically lazy, Sunday I had the Noriega brothers come by to finish the last bit of work I needed to repair and winterize my ranch and repair fencing. I couldn't get any local "contractors" to bother with driving 75 miles out to my place to earn an average of $20 an hour. Nope, they were all insulted that I even asked them. But the Noriega brothers, born and bred in México City D.F. and bearing real green cards showed up for 10 days in a row, starting at 6:00 AM and working their asses off until long after the sun had set. Those young men have been absolutely amazing, armed with basic plumbing, carpentry, and roofing skills. They even reinforced all my decks without me having to ask them. They thought I was being lazy because I didn't see fixing my decks as a priority. And their frugality, having come from a poor country, probably saved me $5,000 in roofing materials. Not all the shake cedar was bad, only bits and pieces. So, they cleaned up the shakes, throwing away the bad ones, and mixed the remaining in with new ones. I now have a better roof on the main house than I would have ended up with if I had actually been able to get a local roofing company to come out and redo the building. But the locals were too busy drinking beer, watching football, and playin' white trash in their aging single-wides in Wells, NV. Nope, they won't work unless it's a Nevada Highway road crew job or cleaning brush for the Forestry Department.

And how did I find these remarkably talented Noriega brothers? They had the initiative to put up fliers with their business cards stapled to them on the grocery store bulletin boards in Alberstons, Smiths, Raleys, and Roys.

Yup, the poor certainly are lazy. Especially those who have migrated from México and Central 'Mericuh.

I like the fact starinvestor and his ilk feel that being Republican and conservative somehow makes them members of an exclusive club. It belies their lack of travel in the USA as well as abroad and their general lack of education. These guys remind me of the days when Jim Crow laws were considered the norm and only white people (no matter how poor or lazy) supposedly had rights.

Chances are the Noriega's are illegal, so they can't qualify for many of the handouts. What else can they do ;-) Shame on you not hiring union ppl anyways....

:hijacked: