Context And Accountability

Sagittarius84

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Having had many discussions surrounding my frustrations and insecurities in dealing with women, especially sexually, I've found a lot of what I perceive as inequities or double standards comes down to my own willingness to accept or push back upon the historical contexts of sexism(specifically misogyny), and how that might affect the mindset and actions of those with whom I am dealing.
I find myself wondering then, in all things sexual whether it be fitness, fidelity, effort, or communication, is there always going to be some level of leeway Id have to offer, even if I know they were wholly unacceptable from my end?
 

ChanelleNo5

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In dealing all things sexually with women should I just accept Im always going to be on the short end of reciprocity?

No, I think it is an individual thing. I have felt that way with men before. Some of us are givers, and others are pillow princesses. Goes for both sexes. If you aren't getting what you need, communication is key but if they just won't give you what you want/deserve/need it is time to move on. If I dated some guy that refused to go downtown, sorry but I am gone.
 

Sagittarius84

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If you aren't getting what you need, communication is key but if they just won't give you what you want/deserve/need it is time to move on.
But if you start noticing it as a recurring thing....i mean to say its been my personal and observational anecdotal experience that unless i approach a relationship with more...chauvinist motivations and or aims, them just not giving what I need/want/deserve is just going to be a given. It just always has felt like once a commitment is established or solidified, my efforts are to be maintained or ramped up, while hers are allowed to falter for whatever biological, emotional, or societal reason.
If I dated some guy that refused to go downtown, sorry but I am gone.
This is some of that unequal yoking that seems so prevalent. Its been my experience that all sorts of things have happened before I came along, and so if one specific sexual act seems to be off limits for whomever Im with, i assume it's triggering enough for me not to make it an issue...yet I have never heard a woman IRL or online even consider some past sexual trauma could be the reason why they're not getting the cunilingus they like. So yet again my predicament is somewhat illustrated, either party can go into a relationship with societal or traumatic baggage but only one side of the equation is realistically expected to get over it in order to better please their partner to their liking.
 
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286798

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But if you start noticing it as a recurring thing....i mean to say its been my personal and observational anecdotal experience that unless i approach a relationship with more...chauvinist motivations and or aims, them just not giving what I need/want/deserve is just going to be a given. It just always has felt like once a commitment is established or solidified, my efforts are to be maintained or ramped up, while hers are allowed to falter for whatever biological, emotional, or societal reason.
IMO its not a gender bias thing because I've struggled with this too. I feel like guys will do whatever to GET me but not whatever to KEEP me. I have come to learn that part is MY fault for not making my expectations and desires clearly known, and part of this is "the thrill of the chase"... guys are willing to step it up in order to get what they desire. Is that what you're experiencing?
 

Sagittarius84

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IMO its not a gender bias thing because I've struggled with this too. I feel like guys will do whatever to GET me but not whatever to KEEP me. I have come to learn that part is MY fault for not making my expectations and desires clearly known, and part of this is "the thrill of the chase"... guys are willing to step it up in order to get what they desire. Is that what you're experiencing?
Somewhat...though honestly im satisfied with the thrill of consistency more than any accelerated efforts. I made it clear from the get go i wanted no over and beyond efforts during our dating, that we should be experiencing each others' "normal" and fall in love with that instead of any grandiose gestures. I feel the difference in what you describe is that that can trip up a man even if they maintain the same level of love and affection as when they first started dating, because more is consistently wanted...i dont think women have that problem on any where near the same scale if they simply maintain.
 
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I feel the difference in what you describe is that that can trip up a man even if they maintain the same level of love and affection as when they first started dating, because more is consistently wanted...i dont think women have that problem on any where near the same scale if they simply maintain.
Why do you think it's different between genders? I'd be happy with maintaining.

I agree on the "normal" part. I'm a giver and a doer, and I give that from the start. I accept people quickly and at face value. It's what's normal for me. My bestie is much more reserved and she doesn't give/do for new people. She thinks I should dial it back at first because of my recent run of bad luck with men. I told her I disagree because it wouldn't be authentic. She conceded on that part. I think I, and probably you, need to work on communicating wants, needs and expectations. I'm gonna stick with that.
 
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In dealing all things sexually with women should I just accept Im always going to be on the short end of reciprocity?

I wouldn't dream of telling anyone what to accept, but my general opinion is that if you are miserable with your lot then change it if it is at all within your power

I will say this though, there is tangible bitterness and resentment in this post and your extrapolation of your perception to the whole female population has the whiff of misogyny....which doesn't jive with your OP and I have seen you post here taking up for women before. But. This is starting to sound like the "nice guy" who keeps telling everyone what a nice guy he is.
 

Holly Doors

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If things aren't working move on, love and sex should be spontaneous and natural imo. If you constantly have to work at something and it still doesn't feel right it'll just become frustrating and the frustration will only add to any issues, that's the way I look at things anyway X
 

EllieP

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Use your mouth. No, not that way. Talk! Talk about it. Tell her what you want. You don't have to demand anything, but let her know there are expectations not being met. Do it in a loving way, not a demanding way. If you cannot talk to the person you're having sexual intimacy with then you don't have intimacy at all - you're just having sex.

A good partner would make sure there is reciprocation, and if it's not immediate then at some point the tally is due. I admit there are times I'm so wiped out that I can't even. But I do my best to make it up to him! And he appreciates being spoiled.

Make your feeling known! Come on now!
 

Sagittarius84

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I will say this though, there is tangible bitterness and resentment in this post and your extrapolation of your perception to the whole female population has the whiff of misogyny....which doesn't jive with your OP and I have seen you post here taking up for women before. But. This is starting to sound like the "nice guy" who keeps telling everyone what a nice guy he is.
Sigh...I really didn't think this would be a space where something like this was necessary, but if it makes you feel better about my intentions, then #notallwomen.
Wariness is not bitterness nor resentment, it is the product of experience. Do I like the wariness many women often practice with subsequent men after their emotional and physical trials with them? Not necessarily, nor am I a fan of the slippery slope of opinions that tend to form as a result, but I have enough humilty as a man and enough empathy as a human being to accept that enough valid interactions have occurred for said wariness to be justified.
So this quoted response really sort of goes along with where my frustrations lie: that even in my valid experiences I am still expected to not be wary of continued failure in the lines of my past and current relationships as well as any that mighr occur in the future.
 

Sagittarius84

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Use your mouth. No, not that way. Talk! Talk about it. Tell her what you want. You don't have to demand anything, but let her know there are expectations not being met. Do it in a loving way, not a demanding way. If you cannot talk to the person you're having sexual intimacy with then you don't have intimacy at all - you're just having sex.

A good partner would make sure there is reciprocation, and if it's not immediate then at some point the tally is due. I admit there are times I'm so wiped out that I can't even. But I do my best to make it up to him! And he appreciates being spoiled.

Make your feeling known! Come on now!
Im wondering how exactly you've drawn the conclusion that this isnt something that hasnt been talked about. I've expressed plenty of times about the disparity in our libido. I've practiced self restraint to accommodate for age, health, childbirth and the like. Ive even deprived myself of sleep, comfort, and privacy to accommodate for the only times intimacy seems to be on the table, and am still lacking.
Why do you think it's different between genders? I'd be happy with maintaining.
I dont think it is inherently different gender wise( that's a whole different deep dive), but I do think today in hetero relationships, partially as a pendulum swing from patriarchal attitudes(and partially as just general human opportunism) there is a disparity in the amount of acceptable sexual frustration the high libido half of a couple is expected to endure before action can be demanded of the other half.
It's nice you'd be happy with maintaining...honestly that's the whole irony of this thing, it's these internet forum unicorn women whom I debate with constantly that seem to embody the mindsets toward sex and relationships that I find most attractive.
 

Tight_N_Juicy

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I wouldn't dream of telling anyone what to accept, but my general opinion is that if you are miserable with your lot then change it if it is at all within your power

I will say this though, there is tangible bitterness and resentment in this post and your extrapolation of your perception to the whole female population has the whiff of misogyny....which doesn't jive with your OP and I have seen you post here taking up for women before. But. This is starting to sound like the "nice guy" who keeps telling everyone what a nice guy he is.

This. Just this.
 

Tight_N_Juicy

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In dealing all things sexually with women should I just accept Im always going to be on the short end of reciprocity?

Short answer? No.

You're an individual. Every woman you've ever interacted with is also an individual.

Keep in mind, the common understanding is that men usually want more sex (not necessarily as true as some are convinced it is) and that women need "emotional connection" (also not always true, men can need it just as much as some women don't need it at all) so how many women do you think go without it for so long they prepare to die never finding it?

We all have our struggles.
 

Sagittarius84

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This. Just this.
I really wish you'd all move past this...im not trying to convince anyone of my "niceness". Im trying to preempt the inevitable questioning of effort and comunication on my end by prefacing that which ive put forth already. Not every dude that takes that effort or reveals the frustration he has with his partner is looking to cash in on some nice guy clause. People know people, and even if the enlightened ladies of this forum would never knowingly be sexually manipulative or opportunistic(at least without not being self aware of how they are doing so) that doesn't preclude the fact any of you may have friends, family, acquaintances, coworker or the like, that through no malevolent intention, engage in some of these behaviors as well. That begets insight, maybe not even for a light at the end of the tunnel, but that maybe it's in my best interest to just acclimate myself to varying hues of darkness. This isnt a dig against women in general, not even really against the individual women whom inspired such an observation. This is more of a question of given my situation is it better to hope for the best or prepare for the worst?
 

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I really wish you'd all move past this...im not trying to convince anyone of my "niceness". Im trying to preempt the inevitable questioning of effort and comunication on my end by prefacing that which ive put forth already. Not every dude that takes that effort or reveals the frustration he has with his partner is looking to cash in on some nice guy clause. People know people, and even if the enlightened ladies of this forum would never knowingly be sexually manipulative or opportunistic(at least without not being self aware of how they are doing so) that doesn't preclude the fact any of you may have friends, family, acquaintances, coworker or the like, that through no malevolent intention, engage in some of these behaviors as well. That begets insight, maybe not even for a light at the end of the tunnel, but that maybe it's in my best interest to just acclimate myself to varying hues of darkness. This isnt a dig against women in general, not even really against the individual women whom inspired such an observation. This is more of a question of given my situation is it better to hope for the best or prepare for the worst?

I won't just move past it because it's become a pattern with you.