Coronavirus Covid-19

[Richard M S]

If you wear a mask than you shouldn’t worry about me. Someone explain to me how me not wearing a mask affects you if you have one on. All I can gather is that it’s one extra layer of protection? And if y’all are so pro mask wearing, why don’t you wear two, or three, or heck four?

I live in a mostly Asian neighborhood of Brooklyn. It is not uncommon to see people wearing a surgical mask + a face shield. So two masks.

As backround, I can tell you the Asian communities of NYC began wearing masks, and shutting businesses - even construction sites that worked on New Years Day! - in mid-February. I knew things were going to be bad when even the woman who went around collecting cans for recycling wore a mask as she went about her business.

The neighboring Hasidic community in Brooklyn resisted all attempts at masks and suffered huge death tolls. A similar scenario happened between Asian and other neighborhoods in Queens, as detailed in an online TheCity.NYC article.

I honestly don't care about your response, I can assure you, the virus does not care either.

 

[Motion-of-the-Ocean]

 

[dandelion]

Data shows its spread is almost entirely airborne from close proximity to people who are not wearing masks.

I doubt any data shows that! Masks do not work for medics. All they do is reduce the spread a little, but that is not by itself enough to protect anyone. Worse, they are being sold as if they do protect you, so people believe if they wear a mask they are safe. As you say, believe they are safe from catching it too when it makes no difference.

Advice from WHO and from Sage (the UK governments advice panel) said dont use masks generally in case people start to believe in them and then do not bother with measures which really work. But instead of this, governments now seem to be asking people to wear masks precisely to persuade them they will be safe and therefore go back to work, or use bars, or whatever. It isnt true.

Now apart from all this, Sage also from the outset said that once the spead of the virus was out of control, nothing could be done except everyone catch it so we develop herd immnity. then it will die out naturally. The solution to covid is for everyone safe to catch it. If there are youngsters out partying, thank them for doing their civic duty for catching it and boosting national herd immunity. The sooner this is done, the sooner people in high risk groups will be safe. They will not be safe until then.

 

[Shrume]

I doubt any data shows that! Masks do not work for medics. All they do is reduce the spread a little, but that is not by itself enough to protect anyone. Worse, they are being sold as if they do protect you, so people believe if they wear a mask they are safe. As you say, believe they are safe from catching it too when it makes no difference.

Advice from WHO and from Sage (the UK governments advice panel) said dont use masks generally in case people start to believe in them and then do not bother with measures which really work. But instead of this, governments now seem to be asking people to wear masks precisely to persuade them they will be safe and therefore go back to work, or use bars, or whatever. It isnt true.

Now apart from all this, Sage also from the outset said that once the spead of the virus was out of control, nothing could be done except everyone catch it so we develop herd immnity. then it will die out naturally. The solution to covid is for everyone safe to catch it. If there are youngsters out partying, thank them for doing their civic duty for catching it and boosting national herd immunity. The sooner this is done, the sooner people in high risk groups will be safe. They will not be safe until then.

And medics and surgeons only wear them more out of tradition. Some surgeons have done live stream surgeries without wearing them. Because they’re useless except for keeping blood off their face and whatnot. The masks are just a symbolic gesture to your government devotion.

 

[halcyondays]

The solution to covid is for everyone safe to catch it.

The problem with this is that we don't know who is "safe" and who isn't.

You're missing the point that masks, social distancing/isolating, hand-washing & not touching our faces doesn't eliminate transmission, just slows it so hospitals aren't overwhelmed with severe cases and can SAVE INDIVIDUAL LIVES. One at a time. That's how medicine works.

We don't know enough about this virus to say whether we are or will develop herd immunity. So far it looks like those who are infected but show no/mild symptoms have fewer antibodies which don't last as long as those who had severe symptoms and survived the disease. Even then we don't yet know how long immunity lasts. There's a reason we get vaccine boosters for other diseases over our lifetimes.

It may not seem like it but it's still early days with this disease. So far it's spreading like a common cold but with severe cases running at 14%, critical cases 5% and a 2.3% death rate. Around the world it has killed thousands of medical workers attending the sick.

I don't know of any government health agency which says wearing a mask protects the wearer. If advertisers do they are lying but then almost all commercial advertising is willfully misleading.

If there are youngsters out partying, thank them for doing their civic duty for catching it and boosting national herd immunity.

This is flat out ridiculous. Since the vast majority of the "youngsters" out partying who catch the virus show no symptoms, they will continue to spread the disease if safety guidelines aren't followed. And if this coronavirus mutates as fast as others which cause the common cold these "youngsters" will catch it over and over throughout their lives until they're old men and women themselves.

Your cavalier attitude towards this virus reminds me of the fatalistic attitude many gay and bi men had for HIV back in the 1980s. I attended way too many of their funerals. What condoms were to HIV then (and are still today) face masks are to covid 19 today.

 

[DiamondJoe]

Sage also from the outset said that once the spead of the virus was out of control, nothing could be done except everyone catch it so we develop herd immnity. then it will die out naturally.

Yeah, and then the computer models suggested a quarter- to half a million deaths as a result of doing nothing and the government ditched that idea toot sweet.

 

[rbkwp]

I doubt any data shows that! Masks do not work for medics. All they do is reduce the spread a little, but that is not by itself enough to protect anyone. Worse, they are being sold as if they do protect you, so people believe if they wear a mask they are safe. As you say, believe they are safe from catching it too when it makes no difference.

Advice from WHO and from Sage (the UK governments advice panel) said dont use masks generally in case people start to believe in them and then do not bother with measures which really work. But instead of this, governments now seem to be asking people to wear masks precisely to persuade them they will be safe and therefore go back to work, or use bars, or whatever. It isnt true.

Now apart from all this, Sage also from the outset said that once the spead of the virus was out of control, nothing could be done except everyone catch it so we develop herd immnity. then it will die out naturally. The solution to covid is for everyone safe to catch it. If there are youngsters out partying, thank them for doing their civic duty for catching it and boosting national herd immunity. The sooner this is done, the sooner people in high risk groups will be safe. They will not be safe until then.

DO NOT AND DONT think thats a sensible aprtoach dands

your UK virtually did that for several precious initial weeks,under the pretense of
'protecting your beloved NHS,in case a pandemic ensued'
000s died in that period,not mentioning the unreported deaths at the time in the aged care homes

while other countries applied an immediate lockdown,results confirming it was appropriate

what is it with anti-maskers,continually muttering
'masks dont protect you'
how about crying
'theyre doing your bit to try and protect others'as well

then it will die out naturally.

 

[dandelion]

You're missing the point that masks, social distancing/isolating, hand-washing & not touching our faces doesn't eliminate transmission, just slows it so hospitals aren't overwhelmed

No, I am not missing it. The point is masks really dont do very much, so practically speaking it doesnt.

basically what you have to do is allow cases to rise up to the level health services can cope with, and then come down hard on the disease with a lockdown. Then, once cases have fallen enough, allow them to rise again. Keep going untill it is done.

or take the Swedish approach. They have not used lockdown, just a 1m distancing and emphasis on making sure people with an active infection stay home. Restricted mass meetings. So the disease has percolated along at a medium level.

The good news is there hasnt ever been a second peak after a serious first one. This probably means many more people catch in than is generally thought, because most people dont get symptoms. Or, most of us are immune or partially immune before it gets here. Either because of inherited immunity, or cross immunity produced by similar viruses. But either way, it simply peters out well before the dire predictions of WHO and others.

In the UK some 1300 separate strains of covid have been identified entering the country. Most of them have died out naturally. Many more may have arrived and never been spotted because infections started from at least november last year. In may societies Covid simply cannot spread fast enough to keep going. Its a city disease. So then if you can shave back on the numbers of people susceptible because they have had it, society can become immune. You need to get key people immune in those situations where it spreads most readily.

 

[dandelion]

Yeah, and then the computer models suggested a quarter- to half a million deaths as a result of doing nothing and the government ditched that idea toot sweet.

The experts modelled half a million deaths if they did EVERYTHING! But they then did most things and the deaths didnt happen. They grossly over estimated the risks.

I dont honestly know what is happening behind the scenes. It seems likely the government decided to depart from expert advice and try for eradication. This might be because they hope for a vaccine soon. This could end up as a compromise offering the worst of all worlds. Or, if enough immunity was created in the first wave, then it might work.

 

[dandelion]

your UK virtually did that for several precious initial weeks,under the pretense of 'protecting your beloved NHS,in case a pandemic ensued'
000s died in that period,not mentioning the unreported deaths at the time in the aged care homes

This disease affects the old and sick. Half of those who have died across europe were care home residents. There are maybe 300,000 of them in the Uk, or 1/200 of the population. Yet they produced half the deaths. The difference between a few deaths or a lot of deaths is how well you protect the old and sick. Everwhere.

And the theoretical way you do this is make sure everyone young catches it as fast as possible while you protect the old.

The only way to have no deaths would be to uninvent the virus. But its here, so all that can be done is manage it. Bankrupting society is not managing it. That is destroying all our lives, and in the end killing more people. Locking down eternally trying to suppress outbreaks as they arise isnt managing it. Thats death postponed, not prevented. In the long run the human race must develop herd immunity against covid. Its the only way out.

what is it with anti-maskers,continually muttering 'masks dont protect you'

They dont. Mostly they create an illusion of protection, which is actually dangerous if there is a real risk because they arent protecting you, but people rely on them. In the Uk they seem to be introducing them in some situations to try to persuade people they are safe there, as a placebo.

 

[halcyondays]

The good news is there hasnt ever been a second peak after a serious first one.

Oh I think we'll go way beyond a half million deaths but we can slow the rate by following safety guidelines.

Time is all we have in life. What does medicine do? It buys us time.

A second peak is happening here in the US right now! After the first peak we flattened the curve and began to reduce it a little. Since restrictions were lifted in May and June cases have skyrocketed.

Never say never: the 1919 H1N1 flu pandemic had two major peaks.

Thats death postponed, not prevented. I

Then why not intentionally infect everyone now and get it over with? Let the weak die. Jesus...

 

[dandelion]

And if this coronavirus mutates as fast as others which cause the common cold these "youngsters" will catch it over and over throughout their lives until they're old men and women themselves.

Get used to it, I'm afraid. There are only two ways this can go. Either we all become immune and it dies out completely. Or we get it from now on in much the same manner as flu, every year. Although it does not so far seem as variable as the colds and flu you describe.

Nor in fact does it seem likely in the long run to be more deadly than other flus we live with all the time. Considering how immune society is to it before actually being exposed to this specific virus, we will do much better in the long run. Look on what is happening now as catching up on 100 years of annual deaths all in one go.

 

[dandelion]

Oh I think we'll go way beyond a half million deaths but we can slow the rate by following safety guidelines.

Quite a few people think that, but the odd thing is...it has never happened ...anywhere.

And even odder is that this disease creeps up on society. It is only detected after it has already become widespread. And that ought to tell everyone something about how it is nowhere near as dangerous as claimed. Otherwise it could not do this.

 

[halcyondays]

Quite a few people think that, but the odd thing is...it has never happened ...anywhere.

And even odder is that this disease creeps up on society. It is only detected after it has already become widespread. And that ought to tell everyone something about how it is nowhere near as dangerous as claimed. Otherwise it could not do this.

WTF are you talking about? The 1919 flu killed at least 40 million in six months. Smallpox killed 500 million in the 20th century alone until isolation, tracing and a vaccine ended it.

The only reason covid19 "crept up on us" is because it's highly communicable like the common cold where most infected people don't know they have it or are spreading it.

I ask you again: why not just infect everyone now and get it over with? Let the weak die and their bodies pile up. Cull the herd.

You sound like an insufferable prat.

 

[MickeyLee]

Studies are starting to show that the right mask, even cloth masks, when worn correctly provide protection to the wearer. Decreasing the likelihood of infection by 65%.

Also. This shit is airborne. Official like, not just my paranoid lil mind telling me so, from multiple science types. Reluctantly acknowledged by WHO.

How awful is it the public health matters are being quashed and "rephrased" to stop Trumpty from getting a sad/mad/pitching a fit.

 

[Enid]

The Deadly Polio Epidemic and Why It Matters for Coronavirus

 

[rbkwp]

masks
use common sense
none of this follow the leader crap

2 hours extensive shopping rural town,2 shops entered into,minimal persons around,those that were acting very responsibly
maybe several 00 total

decided a no mask required day
even tho i am a wear a mask advocate
if decided to shop in a city with heaps around would wear a mask,for my protection,and theres
happy to give consideration to others
re there health

here,govt,does not have a law,masks must be worn
if many,in some countries,want to be utter fuckwits and not wear a mask period
tuff shit bolsanaro,and others of similar ilk

common sense

accept/behave
look after yourself,others

 

[Richard M S]

People still think herd immunity is a viable option?

Look at Sweden's failed "solution", or just do some general research:

Spanish study casts doubt on herd immunity option

 

[DiamondJoe]

The experts modelled half a million deaths if they did EVERYTHING! But they then did most things and the deaths didnt happen. They grossly over estimated the risks.

I dont honestly know what is happening behind the scenes. It seems likely the government decided to depart from expert advice and try for eradication. This might be because they hope for a vaccine soon. This could end up as a compromise offering the worst of all worlds. Or, if enough immunity was created in the first wave, then it might work.

You are, of course, entitled to your own opinions but not, I'm afraid, to your own facts.

The UK government has published all the notes, all the data from that time in an effort to a) appear transparent and b) show everyone what a confusing and difficult target was being shot at.

Long and short, here's Prof. Ferguson's prediction from March 2020 in which they lay out various options for doing/not doing various things and then a sliding scale of casualties, ranging from 1.2% -5.4% infections in the first instance.

It was this document that made the UK government abandon the early idea of herd immunity based on the large number of dead grannies and sickening realisation of what was happening in Italy and Spain.

So, in fact, quite the opposite - the g'ment started with a woolly idea and then terrified by the projections of its own scientists, changed tack pretty quick. Their mistake was to think that Coronavirus wasn't advancing as quickly as it actually was.

I don;t think the UK government did over estimate the risks. I think they, like other g'ments struggled to know what to do in the first instance and spent some months playing catchup.

Good ol' cock up, rather than conspiracy and a serious problem for government and society.

 

[DiamondJoe]

Lots of wishful thinking in 'ere