Coronavirus Covid-19

dandelion

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it does make it easier for some of us to understand,why your govt needs to introduce a total countrywide lockdown,for a month,at this late stage of the year
In the first lockdown the streets were empty. You could walk down the middle of main roads. This time at most traffic is half normal, maybe 3/4. It isnt really lockdown.

Based on what is being done and has been said, this is not a policy of lockdown but a retun to the policy of 'flattening the peak' , which is what the Uk started out doing. Lockdown has been a terrible failure and just led to the virus starting up again as soon as lockdown stopped. Had we continued with flatten the peak all through, it would have been over by mid summer.

We are belatedly copying sweden, just incompetently.

For most people covid is not more than a bad cold. It doesnt matter if every person in the world gets a bad cold. It only matters how many get so sick they need medical care, or go on to die. So far all the vaccine trial has shown is that placebo is as good as vaccine at preventing death from covid. No one who had a placebo injection got seriously ill with covid.
 

Jaden90

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I couldn't help but feel at least a little bit of relief and hope yesterday regarding the vaccine. I know it's by no means a quick solution but it's encouraging that we will have at least some protection in the foreseeable future.

I've been really lucky and have been able to isolate fairly easily because I was already working from home by March 2020. Unfortunately it does also mean that I haven't seen my family in person since February because of their own existing health issues. We chose not to mix even during the summer when restrictions were relaxed.

It seems at least that November is bringing us a few bits of good news in an otherwise very difficult year so far. :blush:
 

rbkwp

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I couldn't help but feel at least a little bit of relief and hope yesterday regarding the vaccine. I know it's by no means a quick solution but it's encouraging that we will have at least some protection in the foreseeable future.

I've been really lucky and have been able to isolate fairly easily because I was already working from home by March 2020. Unfortunately it does also mean that I haven't seen my family in person since February because of their own existing health issues. We chose not to mix even during the summer when restrictions were relaxed.

It seems at least that November is bringing us a few bits of good news in an otherwise very difficult year so far. :blush:

pleasing to hear
keep safe and well
especially if your living in a high density populated area

sounds very similar to how we,my family have handled the situation,including of course the entire country
and pleasing to mention we started to resume usual/normal get together activities several months ago
its nice to get back to a little of living as we are used to

It seems at least that November is bringing us a few bits of good news in an otherwise very difficult year so far. :blush:
 

Juiceypeen

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If you haven't already. Watch the documentary totally under control. It of course isn't over yet but if you want a general summary of how and why america screwed up so bad. It's a must watch. I would also recommend sending it to others regardless of if they are american or not.

Maybe it can act as a lesson. A warning. About the kinds of people who should never gain power or influence.
 

dandelion

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how can you virtually be the exact opposite thinker/believer than probably the majority on here let alone likely the world
Maybe because I always work out my own conclusions? Most people simply accept what they are told.

it does make it easier for some of us to understand,why your govt needs to introduce a total countrywide lockdown,for a month,at this late stage of the year
King's phone app, trcking cases of covid in the UK. R for Uk now 0.9. The data is time lagged, so todays release is really the situation before lockdown in the Uk was called.

It was already going down by itself before lockdown and would have fallen anyway. https://covid-assets.joinzoe.com/latest/covid_symptom_study_report.pdf

There was some evidence it was starting to fall by itself before the first lockdown too. It got bad in London first, but news reports suggested it was already stabilising at lockdown.
 

dandelion

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Article says sweden didnt lock down. Sweden now has rising cases but falling deaths. Since it was written a month ago, cases have continued up and deaths down. Thats an ideal outcome, and is anyway likely because, as the article says, they are now doing more testing. Do more testing, find more cases. The plain fact is they have done better than the Uk and US and have not had a a general lockdown. Having or not having lockdown didn't make a difference to the deaths.

Much of the rest of the article is a list of possible disasters which might have happened because they did not lock down...which did not happen. The forecasts of doom just didnt happen. Actually the article seems to be saying the situation in sweden was just as bad as in Italy...yet Sweden managed it without resorting to lockdown. Extraordinary if lockdown made any difference.

What sweden really seems to have confirmed is that lockdown has made essentially no difference to the progress of the disease, which self limited there without lockdown. Since they have actually done better than the Uk or US without it, it seems likely the lockdown itself added to deaths.

Lockdown kills. thats obvious. The question has always been does lockdown kill more than it saves, and this article suggsts that it does.
 

DiamondJoe

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Article says sweden didnt lock down. Sweden now has rising cases but falling deaths. Since it was written a month ago, cases have continued up and deaths down. Thats an ideal outcome, and is anyway likely because, as the article says, they are now doing more testing. Do more testing, find more cases. The plain fact is they have done better than the Uk and US and have not had a a general lockdown. Having or not having lockdown didn't make a difference to the deaths.

Much of the rest of the article is a list of possible disasters which might have happened because they did not lock down...which did not happen. The forecasts of doom just didnt happen. Actually the article seems to be saying the situation in sweden was just as bad as in Italy...yet Sweden managed it without resorting to lockdown. Extraordinary if lockdown made any difference.

What sweden really seems to have confirmed is that lockdown has made essentially no difference to the progress of the disease, which self limited there without lockdown. Since they have actually done better than the Uk or US without it, it seems likely the lockdown itself added to deaths.

Lockdown kills. thats obvious. The question has always been does lockdown kill more than it saves, and this article suggsts that it does.
Uh huh...?

What lockdown sceptics get wrong about Sweden | The Spectator
Coronavirus: Sweden brings in rule of eight for diners amid spike in infections
Sweden sees record Covid infections as country IGNORES its first-ever lockdown
Sweden Proposes Alcohol Curfew As Coronavirus Cases Soar
 
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dandelion

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You are fooling no-one but yourself.
hello agin Joe, and thank you for being perhaps my number one follower. if i might suggest though, perhaps a bit more detail in your replies? A bit more research into the background science?


See here Coronavirus chart: see how your country compares | Free to read | Financial Times

I have posted this for you several times now but you dont seem to have looked at it. Click though the data and you will see just as the sun says that cases in Sweden have indeed risen. BUT DEATHS KEEP FALLING. thats exactly what you would expect once population immunity is high enough and then covid becomes just another cold. Its a win by Sweden!

Maybe you never noticed, but what we all normally do about colds is....ignore them!

Cases in the Uk continue to fall in all the data up to date, which is still only for the pre second lockdown period. The Uk called a second lockdown despite cases faling not because of cases rising. Why would you do that?
 

rbkwp

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utter bullshit,NZs on top of it
knew all along,but classic eg
one,person tests positive,her boss tells her to go to work,iwth a mask

plus
in her living arrangement
NO,NZ HEALTH OFFICIALS ON HAND TO LET THOSE WHO LIVE IN HER INNER CITY LIVING BUILDING HUH
many residents unaware,its happening
blame
the govts BULLSHIT TALK

apart from
all happening in NZs largest city,a lousy 1 million plus people
what can you/we do huh
humanities fucked,thru our ignorance
not as bright as we may think
way it is

Government weighs up Covid-19 alert level change after community case in Auckland
 
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DiamondJoe

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hello agin Joe, and thank you for being perhaps my number one follower. if i might suggest though, perhaps a bit more detail in your replies? A bit more research into the background science?

See here Coronavirus chart: see how your country compares | Free to read | Financial Times

Your lovely graph is a cumulative total and is a single measure of a number of trends under the surface. The second wave is hitting Europe now, that cannot be denied. What we saw here in March/April was a hurried, panicked response to images on TV from Spain and Italy, combined with a very real sense of the NHS being overwhelmed by a new disease that doctors did not know how to treat as patients piled up.

Since then health systems have become more ready and are better at treating Covid with, for instance, steroids to dampen the auto-immune responses that caused major organ failure in patients first time round. Further there is far, far greater testing and testing outside hospitals. Thusly, more tests = more diagnoses. Importantly, the tests carried out in the community now pick up vastly more younger and asymptomatic carriers. Previously, few were tested outside of hospitals. Therefore the death rate seems to fall - as a result of higher testing and better treatment. This, together with social distancing and lockdowns, have led to a situation where the health service is not in immanent danger of collapse which in itself leads to better health outcomes from medical staff who are not overworked and overwhelmed. So far. This does not negate the effects of Covid.


On the wider point of not having more detail... I really don't see the point of arguing, sentence by sentence with what you write. I have done so before and you simply ignore the bits you can't answer and, tbh, and reply in walls of text on other subjects that clarify matters for no-one.

The main points are that you:
  • dangerously playdown the seriousness of the virus
  • downplay the effects of removing constraints on public behaviour and movement
  • are led by wishful thinking, not evidence
  • misuse statistics frequently
  • take preliminary studies and minor research that appears to correlate with your views and use it without caveat
  • have an attitude of "I'm alright Jack"/"fuck the vulnerable" which makes it all the more distasteful

I'm not here to defeat you with words; you will not change your views. Your tagline about the referendum result is testimony to your difficulty with both numbers and reality. I accept that.

What I am doing is providing correctives to your drivel for anyone who reads it and who might be swayed.

Bigger picture.
 

dandelion

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Your lovely graph is a cumulative total and is a single measure of a number of trends under the surface.
I'm pleased you liked the graph. However, if you look just above it there is a selection of options to change what it shows. Theyre quite big, unfortunate you missed them. Its very versatile with either current numbers or totals. deaths or cases. Lin or log plotting. total for the nation or per million. Highight any six countries in the world, but running the cursoe over the graph identifies any country greyed out in the background and reads off daily values.

You might like to open a couple of adjacent tabs on your browser so you can compare the different displays and flip between them.

Her, I have switched it to daily deaths for you.Coronavirus chart: see how your country compares | Free to read | Financial Times

What we saw here in March/April was a hurried, panicked response to images on TV from Spain and Italy, combined with a very real sense of the NHS being overwhelmed by a new disease that doctors did not know how to treat as patients piled up.
Actually I think they started to get testing going and discovered there was far more covid in the Uk than they had thought. I don find that surprising because I am sure we here had covid last winter, and that accounts for why hastings has had the lowest cases throughout the official epidemic. So we had it before it formally existed...and didnt even notice anything unusual. That tells you all you need to know about how it spread so easily around the world. it doesnt make most people ill so they dont notice it has arrived.

Therefore the death rate seems to fall - as a result of higher testing and better treatment.
I agree its very hard to compare then and now, However King;s phone app estimated 2.1 million symptomatic cases in the spring at peak, and about 600,00 this time. cases in the Uk are now falling again, and started to do so about 1-2 weeks before lockdown #2. So.. How are UK deaths right now compared to at peak last spring? Problem with this tool is it only reports symptomatic cases, so we dont know if there are many more mild and asymptomatic cases this time round.

dangerously playdown the seriousness of the virus
Show me where more than about 0.1% of a population has died from covid? Show me where deaths from covid are amongst the young and not the old (average age for dying from covid is higher than average life expectancy! you have to be lucky to live long enough to get seriously ill with covid!)
 

dandelion

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Your tagline about the referendum result is testimony to your difficulty with both numbers and reality. I accept that.
Haha, Downing street just sacked one of its key pro brexit advisors and BBC reporting Cummings will leave before Christmas. Conservatives seem to be coming round to remain too.
 

DiamondJoe

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Haha, Downing street just sacked one of its key pro brexit advisors and BBC reporting Cummings will leave before Christmas. Conservatives seem to be coming round to remain too.
No, unfortunately we are leaving/have left.

As I said, you really need to deal with the world as it is, rather than as you wish it to be. You'll be much happier in the round.
 
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rbkwp

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2021
looks like many are going to be TOLD to wear them,or else huh
no improvement
but
being safe duh
we are vall in this to-gether
and,we are doing such a wonderful f'kn job of 'keeping you safe
 
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dandelion

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looks like many are going to be TOLD to wear them,or else huh
Or else what?Or else their own government punish them for daring to say the epidemic would have ended naturally if we hadnt used lockdown to keep it going?

there will now be increasing numbers of countries which abandon lockdown, dont have very impressive health services, cannot afford vaccines, but it just ends.
 

rbkwp

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Or else what?Or else their own government punish them for daring to say the epidemic would have ended naturally if we hadnt used lockdown to keep it going?

there will now be increasing numbers of countries which abandon lockdown, dont have very impressive health services, cannot afford vaccines, but it just ends.





Masks protect the wearer from COVID-19, too



Wear one, if not for your neighbors, then for your own health.

especially for you dands
you seem to have a distinct personal dislike to such,incredible
just as well your virtually the only one who believes in what you say
i think ha