Coronavirus Covid-19

rbkwp

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Sweden Bans Groups of More Than 8 After Covid Surge

Even Sweden have decided to change tack after this latest surge...

incredible gonzo
never heard till now
and there were so many people proclaiming that country had an ideal solution
wont bother mentioning who

dismays me heaps,when several smart arse/ass USA,continually allowed many/MANY TO DIE,from the outset
almost a
'we may have a better solution than you'scenario

Even Sweden have decided to change tack after this latest surge...
 

dandelion

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Even Sweden have decided to change tack after this latest surge...
I dont really see how this changes anything? They still have fewer restriction right now thn anyone else with an active spread of covid. Have had fewer restrictions throughout, less economic impact, and fewer deaths than the Uk, US. Pretty much in every respect better than the Uk throughout the epidemic with far fewer restriction for everyone. They have had a better outcome with a policy of no lockdown.

Aside from that....while cases might be rising, deaths have not. The final outcome of this will be covid continues to circulate and people still get covid colds. But the proportion of deaths will shrink and shrink as we bring our national immunity up to speed. Nowhere have deaths been more than about 0.1%, higher in dense areas lower in less dense. Thats the ceiling and most countries are getting close to it, though we could have done all that last spring. Waiting hasnt saved anyone. There never were high percentages of people at risk of dying from covid.
 
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g0nz0

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Aside from that....while cases might be rising, deaths have not.

Umm.... facts appear to say otherwsie.

upload_2020-11-19_17-24-44.png


Seems like deaths are rising everywhere. Including Sweden... So what you wrote is, yet again, sadly fictitious.

We know that the EU seems to be about 2 weeks ahead of the US time wise virtually all the way along the timeline of this pandemic... Various EU member states and the UK have various measures in place which appear to be reducing case numbers - this will feed into reduced deaths in time. The US is currently still climbing, as are Sweden...

upload_2020-11-19_17-27-1.png


So I strongly suspect Sweden saw the writing on the wall. Saw their deaths this time are disproportionately high (as compared with earlier in the year), and decided to act with some hindsight involved...
 

rbkwp

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Umm.... facts appear to say otherwsie.


So I strongly suspect Sweden saw the writing on the wall. Saw their deaths this time are disproportionately high (as compared with earlier in the year), and decided to act with some hindsight involved...


agree gonzo
no magical fix
originally i thought 'good on them for at least trying that approach'
do give them credit there,but,now they/we know huh

perhaps,again,another incident of 'trying something'
like everything associated with it,we dont know,whats best

So I strongly suspect Sweden saw the writing on the wall. Saw their deaths this time are disproportionately high (as compared with earlier in the year), and decided to act with some hindsight involved...
 
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dandelion

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covid 19 deaths.jpg


lets try that again wihout the log scale, shall we?

Thing is, they are doing better than us with fewer restrictions. have from the very start.

I dont see how anyone can claim they are not doing better than us with less disruption and less cost and less death.
 
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g0nz0

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View attachment 25157131

lets try that again wihout the log scale, shall we?

Thing is, they are doing better than us with fewer restrictions. have from the very start.

Oh, are they just doing better? or is it that "that....while cases might be rising, deaths have not"?? which is it?

Obviously deaths are rising enough to get them sufficiently concerned to change tack. Why is that, I wonder, if they were doing such a perfect job already??

Their culture is very different from their more southernly neighbours in Europe, and they tend to live alone more, so its difficult to compare their rates to others in Europe except for other Scandinavian countries.
 
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dandelion

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Oh, are they just doing better? or is it that "that....while cases might be rising, deaths have not"?? which is it?
The answer is both are true. The statement was correct when i wrote it.

Obviously deaths are rising enough to get them sufficiently concerned to change tack.
But they have not changd tack. Their goal was always to use the minimum of restrictions. no different now. They aimed to live with covid, not try to eradciate it. Trying to eradicate it doesnt work.
 

DiamondJoe

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The answer is both are true. The statement was correct when i wrote it.

But they have not changd tack. Their goal was always to use the minimum of restrictions. no different now. They aimed to live with covid, not try to eradciate it. Trying to eradicate it doesnt work.
I'm so glad that in the space of 6 months and a bunch of Googling, your understanding of the virus exceeds anyone with medical training, a background in public health or epidemiology.

Our own "virtual" expert.

What are the chances?
 

g0nz0

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The number of people in Swedish hospitals with the virus is now doubling every eight days, according to data from the European Centre of Disease Control... and they've had more deaths than their other Scandinavian neighbours combined.

So far Sweden’s strategy has proven to be a dramatic failure,” said Lena Einhorn, a Swedish virologist and prominent critic of its strategy. “Four days ago we had eight times higher cases per capita than Finland and three and a half times more than Norway. They were supposed to have it worse off than us in the autumn because we were going to have immunity.”

Even Sweden’s public health agency admits its earlier prediction that the country’s Nordic neighbours such as Finland and Norway would suffer more in the autumn appears wrong. Sweden is currently faring worse than Denmark, Finland and Norway on cases, hospitalisations and deaths relative to the size of their population
.
Source: Subscribe to read | Financial Times
 

rbkwp

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pleased UK @ this stage,are intimating people
'should be allowed to have increased numbers,over festives'
get breal,FFS
AUSTRALIAN State premiers/border closures,taske note
NOT THAT YOU DAMN WELL WILL
not impressed they have partially acted this am
ONLY HAPPENS ONCE,IN OUR LIVES

similarly
MANCHESTER,and likely many others WW
super pleased theyre all pulling together excess food wise
daily,freely donating excesses,incl fresh fruit/veges/baking
volunteers working tirelessly 7pound 50,for 3 bags of food worth 30-00 pound
brilliant,feed the lessors
was happening prior to CV
 
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rbkwp

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Senior German politicians: Extend coronavirus lockdown into December
Germany's November lockdown to tame the coronavirus spread should be extended into December, two senior politicians suggested. Regional state premiers will debate further steps with Angela Merkel on Wednesday.




Germany's November lockdown, often called "lockdown light" as schools, stores and many businesses remain open, could need to be extended into December, even toward Christmas, to hold the spread of the coronavirus in check, Vice Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Bavaria's state premier, Markus Söder, told the Bild am Sonntag newspaper.

Senior German politicians: Extend coronavirus lockdown into December | DW | 22.11.2020

sensible country i think
one of the few European countries i respect
to me,still retainm more individuality than others
Ireland doing well,as well
 

rbkwp

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very SAD,NO DOUBT SO MANY STILL
VACCINES,OPTIMISM without the cautious huh


VXyDfWakp8PyrbjO3daxrJuzG0r8XsoAlBa8XUOP-gm7Q75Iuve4XMZM1NscHDqW4hpgsd7yZ6MdWqJ8wCf6hMkvdTWmSJLBcF9Opf2_qRoqkmDS5A=s0-d-e1-ft

UNICEF says to ship 2 billion COVID-19 vaccines to poor nations in 2021
UNICEF will work with over 350 airlines and freight companies to deliver nearly 2 billion COVID-19 vaccines to developing countries next year



sensible
perhaps a light'
 
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dandelion

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The number of people in Swedish hospitals with the virus is now doubling every eight days, according to data from the European Centre of Disease Control...
See the witty and Vallance horror show where they announced something similar in the UK. Oh. didnt happen. The horror epidemic they said was about to happen just stopped all by itself.

similarly
MANCHESTER
Ah, the place where cases started dropping end of september? https://lginform.local.gov.uk/repor...Country_England&mod-type=namedComparisonGroup
 

rbkwp

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i am sure you have a very valid explanation for this dands
i am doubly sure a majority of us will want to read your epistle about it

selective man that you are,likely be no reply huh


End of the plague
The bubonic plague ravaged the world for centuries, killing up to 200 million people.




While the world continues to suffer from the onslaught of COVID-19, its toll has yet to approach the grim statistics of history's deadliest pandemic–the Black Death. Also called the Black Plague, this terrible illness afflicted Europe and Asia in the mid-1300s, with new outbreaks over several centuries. It killed about a third of the European population when it began–nearly 20 million people. Over a few years, the total for the extremely contagious plague is estimated to have reached as high as 200 million victims globally. Attacking the lymphatic system, the plague also brought with it fever, vomiting, diarrhea, body aches, and pains.

Unfortunately, available medieval treatments like bloodletting certainly weren't too pleasant and did little to stem the tide of the Black Death. Neither did the belief of many that the plague was a punishment from God. This resulted in the purging of "heretics" like the massacres of thousands of Jews in 1348 and 1349 and a whole class of self-flagellating people who went from town to town beating themselves in penance.

What finally ended the Black Death? It went away for periods of time but would come back for a new round during several centuries like its resurgence in London in 1665-1666, when it killed about 100,000 – a quarter of the city's population. The eventual weakening of the pandemic was likely due to the practice of quarantining infected people that originated in Venice in the 15th century and is with us to this day. Improved sanitation, personal hygiene, and medical practices also played a role in ultimately slowing the plague's terror march. Still, annually there are about 1,000 to 3,000 cases of the plague even in the modern world.
 

dandelion

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The eventual weakening of the pandemic was likely due to the practice of quarantining infected people that originated in Venice in the 15th century
That seems exceedingly unlikely to me. Much more likely is that over the centuries the minority of people who died created significant changes to human biology, favouring an immune system better able to stop plague. I seem to recall a science program that determined someone immune to HIV was a descendant of people who had survived infection by plague.

It would be expected that over a period of decades the population of susceptible people would grow again, after one wave killed them off, and so a new outbreak would be able to happen. Something similar is likely to happen with covid. if we keep it going long enough through lockdowns, mor people will have become susceptible ready for the next wave.

that isnt the same process: with plague I'd imagine more people being born would randomly have better or worse ability to fight off covid. Thats applis to anything, but its slow. With covid, the people dying are those whose immune sustem has been weakeend by age or some illness. And more of those will be created all the time. The annual deaths from flu are a lot about the total of people who have become susceptible in the intervening year. Its a year since covid started, thats a years worth of extra susceptible people now at risk.

If covid had run its course in the spring, communtiy immunity would now be much higher. People would have caught it before they passed that threshold of decline meaning they would lose the fight.

Although there are other issues which might be more important in numbers terms. low infecting dose gives you a better chance. Best way to avoid a high dose is to not visit hospitals or care homes, if you are old. Obviously wild parties arent a good idea either, but pensioners tend to have fewer of these anyway.
 
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nailz

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With covid, the people dying are those whose immune sustem has been weakeend by age or some illness.
Repeating this ad nauseam does not make it any more true : unamused:
This is the most destructive misconception ever and is the primary reason so many morons refuse to wear masks, refuse to social distance, and will refuse to be vaccinated when the time comes.
Healthy, young people with no preexisting conditions are dying (or suffering lasting damage) from COVID-19 every single day.

The most terrifying thing about 2020 isn't COVID-19 but the realization that half of humanity can't be counted on to take even the simplest precautions during a pandemic :(