Coronavirus

[InToTheDeep]

The world's most widely used vaccine, the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, was developed by BioNTech in Germany, which had received EU funding for many many years to develop the base platform technology...
BioNTech chief: EU R&D funds helped develop Covid-19 vaccine - Research Professional News

The U.S. government did not fund the Pfizer/BioNTech R&D. Pfizer risked its own money on vaccine research and did not take US federal funding in order to avoid bureaucracy and politics according to Pfizer’s CEO Albert Bourla.

The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was also the quickest to market, being the first vaccine to receive authorisation for emergency and regular use. It is in currently being used in 61 countries.

No win for Trump there. Trump bought it, but so did many other countries. It existed without Trump.

The 2nd most widely used, the AstraZeneca vaccine, came from the University of Oxford in the England. UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson tried to claim that greed is good and that private funding drove the pace of getting the vaccine to market, but the overwhelming majority of its funding came from UK government departments, British and American scientific institutes, the European commission and charities including the Wellcome Trust.

The US did fund the Moderna vaccine, the 3rd most used vaccine globally.

So #1 and #2 existed without Trump. What exactly did Trump do again that was so exceptional? I can confidently say that Pfizer/BioNTech and AstraZeneca were going to get to market in record time without him, despite what he might like you to believe.

That all reads well except it isn't exactly honest now is it?
Look, I get it, you are an (grunt) "Orange man bad" guy. I also understand that I am virtually surrounded by OMB's here.

I think we have lost intellectual integrity as an aspect of American discourse. People seem to have so dedicated themselves to a dialog that they no longer give any amount of thought to the beliefs they hold within their own brains.

 

[MisterB]

People seem to have so dedicated themselves to a dialog that they no longer give any amount of thought to the beliefs they hold within their own brains.

#toofunnypotmeetkettle

 

[ConanTheBarber]

That all reads well except it isn't exactly honest now is it?

Justify that.

 

[g0nz0]

That all reads well except it isn't exactly honest now is it?

Which bit is dishonest? Please do help us all out by explaining.

I just presented some facts in response to some unsubstantiated claims by you. Opinions of Trump don't affect facts.

 

[InToTheDeep]

Government-Funded Scientists Laid the Groundwork for Billion-Dollar Vaccines

Here is a good starting point.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Opinions of Trump don't affect facts.

Facts? Facts?
Oh, do be kind.
You'll make his forehead split.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Government-Funded Scientists Laid the Groundwork for Billion-Dollar Vaccines

Here is a good starting point.

This does not alter a thing that Gonzo said.
But you cannot see that.

 

[InToTheDeep]

US taxpayers are funding six Covid vaccines. Here's how they work - CNN

Here's a story from 14 months back from "The Most Trusted Name In News".

 

[InToTheDeep]

If I am unable to provide facts sufficient to please you all, is your collective position then that we have made no financial effort to develop a vaccine? That is kind of how it sounds, if you can be intellectually honest?

 

[g0nz0]

US taxpayers are funding six Covid vaccines. Here's how they work - CNN

Here's a story from 14 months back from "The Most Trusted Name In News".

Does it mention Pfizer /BioNTech anywhere? The first vaccine to be approved?

 

[Klingsor]

Exhibit A. This is why I don’t engage either side.

"Disengaged" is always an option.

 

[yrosen]

Yes, that seems to be what's happening in North America. I'm astonished by the very different statistics in England. It seems unfathomable.

Like you, I'm very pleased to be fully vaccinated.

Its easily explained by lack access of health care
If the US properly administers really sick - then 1% only non-vac in hospitalization is complete BS
and cant even be true if we are to take stats of many other countries not just England.
My theory is that sick-poor arent getting into hospitals, after being vaccinated, fearing they would have
huge bills to pay, resulting in skewed stats of many deaths at home, which can also explain the huge
number of excess unreported deaths in the US.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

If I am unable to provide facts sufficient to please you all, is your collective position then that we have made no financial effort to develop a vaccine?

Absolutely no one said that. In fact, gonzo mentioned that U.S. government money went into the Moderna vaccine.

That is kind of how it sounds, if you can be intellectually honest?

It doesn't sound that way at all.
And please don't impugn others' intellectual honesty.
You walk into any room with the conviction that you're the brightest person in it — but you can't construct a good argument, you can't distill the real meaning in anyone's posts, and you're the most facts-lite poster in this thread.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Its easily explained by lack access of health care
If the US properly administers really sick - then 1% only non-vac in hospitalization is complete BS
and cant even be true if we are to take stats of many other countries not just England.
My theory is that sick-poor arent getting into hospitals, after being vaccinated, fearing they would have
huge bills to pay, resulting in skewed stats of many deaths at home, which can also explain the huge
number of excess unreported deaths in the US.

Sorry, but I can't believe that your explanation can account for the huge statistical discrepancies.
I don't say your suggestion is irrelevant, but there must be larger factors.

 

[g0nz0]

If I am unable to provide facts sufficient to please you all, is your collective position then that we have made no financial effort to develop a vaccine? That is kind of how it sounds, if you can be intellectually honest?

That is not what I pointed out. I never said the US did not contribute funding. I pointed out that Moderna was paid for by the US. It now has a fine mRNA vaccine, it just wasn't the first to market, nor is it the nost popular.

I pointed out that the first approved and world's most popular vaccine was researched and developed without US funding and the second was developed primarily (97%) with British funding.

Of course the US paid monies. In many cases it did so as a burden share like others to secure its subsequent supplies.

You specifically claimed that Americans "only have Trump to thank for making the vaccine possible. Lie to us and yourself and claim otherwise but the fact that Trump was not a government employee his while life is what made the vaccine come to market as quickly as it did." This is what I was providing evidence against as it is patently untrue in the case of the quickest to market vaccine, Pfizer, and also AstraZeneca.

The US paid significant sums to Moderna for R&D, and towards some of the phase 3 trials for other vaccines, but these trials were happening regardless.

Trump was not instrumental for Pfizer /BioNTech or AstraZeneca reaching the market.

 

[yrosen]

A doomsday COVID variant worse than Delta and Lambda may be coming, scientists say

already circulating in England, which is opening borders to europe so it can circulate more.
UK just laxed travel to India - so India, hope youre ready for your next surge! all in the name
of families reuniting. yay!

 

[yrosen]

UK conditions are ideal for evolving vaccine-resistant covid variants | New Scientist

unless world politicians grow some balls vs the aviation and tourism industries,
and f*cking shut them down until the entire planet is vaccinated -
this seems like a likely scenario for what's in store in 2022:
vaccines-resistant variants, 5-6th waves of millions sick and dead,
and IOC forcing China to hold a winter olympics, because why not.

 

[Industrialsize]

Sorry, but I can't believe that your explanation can account for the huge statistical discrepancies.
I don't say your suggestion is irrelevant, but there must be larger factors.

I don't read posts with no punctuation......

 

[Klingsor]

A doomsday COVID variant worse than Delta and Lambda may be coming, scientists say

already circulating in England, which is opening borders to europe so it can circulate more.
UK just laxed travel to India - so India, hope youre ready for your next surge! all in the name
of families reuniting. yay!

Scary stuff. And, as the article itself indicates, all the more reason for as many people as possible to get vaccinated.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

I don't read posts with no punctuation......

Punctuation helps, yup.