Corporate-funded mobs attack democracy

[midlifebear]

Dear Northland (sugar nookies) Part Deux:


But the worst of the worst at the bottom of the heap are those who live in abject poverty. They didn't always live in such conditions, but haven't much choice because of their general physical status, are mentally ill, crippled and in a wheel chairs, or bed ridden and at the mercy of the good, the bad, or the unconcerned who care for them. And trust me, the USA Government has been less and less concerned with these folks since good ol' Ronnie started disassembling the social institutions that were solidly in place to provide reasonable care for these people.

Unless you have money or a giant family that will care for you until you die, you don't want to grow old in the USA. It's just a fact.

I have a cousin who is trapped in Salt Lake City. She and I are the same age. She's a well-known documentary film maker. But that doesn't mean she's wealthy. Since she formerly retired from a State job she hung onto simply for the retirment benefits and the health insurance she figures she probably has enough money to live comfortably for another five to eight years before she'll need to apply for food stamps. She’ll probably have to sell her downtown loft before then. And why is she in such dire straits? Well, her 401K hasn't looked too good for a couple of years now. How about yours? And she was dumb enough to believe her government that if she did everything right and was a good girl she'd be doing OK at 65. She no longer has any disposable income to travel. And even when I gift her Skymiles, she hasn't enough money to live comfortably as she travels in Europe. Therefore, I've hooked her up with Couch Surfers (a real organization). She just needs to be able to host strangers from around the world in her condo in SLC whenever possible in return for sleeping on their couch in Spain, France, Berlin (her favorite city), St. Petersburg . . . you get the idea. Still, she is traveling on less money than an 'Mericuhn university student between his or her freshman and sophomore year. If you ask her, that wasn’t her plan as a sophomore and thinking about retirement.

Are you getting a better sense of bottom or top of the heap now, cookie face? It’s a real situation. As for me, although I like to tell people I’m retired, I cannot afford to retire. I’m like the old farts with big spreads in my part of Nevada. I keep juggling several businesses in the USA under a couple of Limited Liability Corporations. I do the same thing in Spain, only in Spain an LLC is called a Sociedad Autonoma. And I pay (and boy, do I pay) a Hell of a lot more in income and business taxes to two different countries: the USA and Spain. And if I didn’t serve as an “officer” of my SA the IRS would insist I pay them even more money on money I’ve already paid taxes to Spain. Amusingly, the good ol’ USA is the ONLY country that likes to double tax it’s citizens for runing legitiate business.

However, I live in Spain. My home is in Spain. And my legal husband (an Argentine) has been permanently turned down for a travel visa to the USA. But I still make it back to my country and property in Nevada if, for nothing else, to vote against the assholes (so far, that’s proven to be the GOP) who would like people like me to disappear. After all, I’m one of them there godless faggots pushing my gay agenda down the throats of innocent religious folks and scaring the children. Except for one thing, that my businesses in Elko County, Nevada generate a respectable, legal, and reliable part of the county’s tax base. And my “yee haw” red neck neighbors, despite mostly being Republicans, know that I’m not the threat they hear about on FOX News. As one of them put it as he poured me a new cement floor for a building last September, “I know you’re not one of ‘those’ kinds of faggots. It's those assholes back east that are the real problem.”

Enjoy your 50s. You don’t get a second chance to repeat them.

Any other “questions” I haven’t answered for you? :smile:

 

[justasimpleguy]

Thanks for that Midlife, but I don't think it's going to make a dent. These people operate on ideology, not evidence. When you prove them wrong it just makes them more angry because it exposes how ugly their belief system is.

 

[D_Harvey Schmeckel]

But that's just how he rolls. That's just how they roll.

Ironic, ain't it?

One of the bigger disappointments for me in the last decade was discovering that the right vs. left aggression that I used to consider mostly Republican vs. Democrat is actually pervasive among Democrats. The biggest Dem website displays nonstop hostility between progressives, who use evidence and reasoning to make their points however passionately expressed, and "centrists" who offer no evidence, no reasoning, just endless unsupported assertions, snark and namecalling. I used to think it was because they were inherently mean, but now I think it's because they're generally less intelligent and informed than progressives, so snark is all they've got.

On edit: I went over to DU to find an example, and it took about one second to come up with this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4301998

 

[midlifebear]

Thanks for that Midlife, but I don't think it's going to make a dent. These people operate on ideology, not evidence. When you prove them wrong it just makes them more angry because it exposes how ugly their belief system is.

justasimmpleguy:

You're right and I agree. But I appreciate a certain amount of schadenfreude knowing that one day the Northlands of the world will be buying canned cat food and using their ideology to convince them that they're eating paté on a Ritz cracker. :wink:

 

[Northland]

justasimmpleguy:

You're right and I agree. But I appreciate a certain amount of schadenfreude knowing that one day the Northlands of the world will be buying canned cat food and using their ideology to convince them that they're eating paté on a Ritz cracker. :wink:

And that alone shows what you truly are. Differing views, no problem, when you wish ills upon a person as you have now done towards me, you present a most unflattering image. No matter how much I dislke a person or their views, I do not wish them poverty, bad health or unhappiness, the fact that this is your way of operating says it all. It's always sad to see a hater, one who hates so much, they wish bad things upon others. I wish understanding upon others, if someone looks to hurt another, I wish them to find a comprehension of what the other believes. If someone has wealth enough to survive today; but, through recklessness, may soon be broke, I wish them good fortune and the ways and means to get back on their feet, or better yet, to not get knocked down at all. You wish me poverty, nice going,

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Your spinning is about on par with Trinsanity. Congratulations!

 

[midlifebear]

And that alone shows what you truly are. Differing views, no problem, when you wish ills upon a person as you have now done towards me, you present a most unflattering image. No matter how much I dislke a person or their views, I do not wish them poverty, bad health or unhappiness, the fact that this is your way of operating says it all. It's always sad to see a hater, one who hates so much, they wish bad things upon others. I wish understanding upon others, if someone looks to hurt another, I wish them to find a comprehension of what the other believes. If someone has wealth enough to survive today; but, through recklessness, may soon be broke, I wish them good fortune and the ways and means to get back on their feet, or better yet, to not get knocked down at all. You wish me poverty, nice going,

Put a lid on it, twit head. I've merely noted that you are unable to educate yourself. I would like to believe differently, but you've gone so far out of your way to show us all that you refuse to hear the violinist playing off key in your ears. I do not, as you would hope, wish you harm. I don't even wish the She/He and Holy It any harm. But as I explained earlier, I don't hate you or anyone else unable to recognize the nose on their face. I'm just out of patience with you.

Now, what have you done today to help someone else? Out with it. Anything? And did you do anything to help anyone yesterday? And by help I don't mean lick envelopes for a political campaign. Have you recently cleaned up the vomit left on a friend's living room after helping them to the bathroom where they continued to have a bad episode because of their HIV status and a bad drug reaction? Have you helped a blind neighbor go outside and chat with them in the park for an hour or so, giving them the opportunity to enjoy something you take for granted every day? Hell, have you even offered up a couple of bucks to some poor homeless drunk in the street, knowing full well he'll spend all he gathers together on a bottle and drink himself unconscious -- but at least while he's drinking his tremors will temporarily subside and for about an hour or more he'll/she'll live without pain? When someone approaches you and asks if you can spare some pocket change so they can buy a Metro ticket or make a telephone call, do you give willingly or ignore them assuming they're just trying to scam you. And does it really make a difference?

Go back to your perfect politically correct bubble and work on those: Calm blue oceans. You're filled with too much anger to make any clear-headed contribution to these threads at the moment.

But by all means, go do something positive with your time instead of telling others how they should live their lives according to your precious view of reality.

And good luck with that. :smile:

 

[Northland]

Put a lid on it, twit head. I've merely noted that you are unable to educate yourself. I would like to believe differently, but you've gone so far out of your way to show us all that you refuse to hear the violinist playing off key in your ears. I do not, as you would hope, wish you harm. I don't even wish the She/He and Holy It any harm. But as I explained earlier, I don't hate you or anyone else unable to recognize the nose on their face. I'm just out of patience with you.

Now, what have you done today to help someone else? Out with it. Anything? And did you do anything to help anyone yesterday? And by help I don't mean lick envelopes for a political campaign. Have you recently cleaned up the vomit left in a friend's living room after helping them to the bathroom where they continued to have a bad episode because of their HIV status and a bad drug reaction? Have you helped a blind neighbor go outside and chat with them in the park for an hour or so, giving them the opportunity to enjoy something you take for granted every day? Hell, have you even offered up a couple of bucks to some poor homeless drunk in the street, knowing full well he'll spend all he gathers together on a bottle and drink himself unconscious -- but at least while he's drinking his tremors will temporarily subside and for about an hour or more he'll/she'll live without pain? When someone approaches you and asks if you can spare some pocket change so they can buy a Metro ticket or make a telephone call, do you give willingly or ignore them assuming they're just trying to scam you. And does it really make a difference?

Go back to your perfect politically correct bubble and work on those: Calm blue oceans. You're filled with too much anger to make any clear-headed contribution to these threads at the momen.

But by all means, go do something positive with your time instead of telling others how they should live their lives according to your precious view of reality.

And good luck with that. :smile:

Oh goody! He tells me to eat cat food and then calls me a twit.

As to what I have or have not done today, that is between me and those I have been with. Since I wasn't here for several hours, maybe I was tending to a homebound man who needs help getting to the bathroom, or someone to take his dog for a walk, or clean the cat litter box. You have no idea.

I am not telling you how to live, unless you think, and honestly believe that is what I am saying when I say I advocate for an equality for all. I don't you see that from you as you seek to erase anybody with beliefs different from yours. You take it to wishing me a life of poverty. Apparently, it's you who are telling people how to live- even your above post tells me to go and do this that or the other, foolishly assuming I do nothing.

I know the names of several of the men and women in the area who are homeless, I sit and talk with them, I buy them a meal here and there- I'm not wealthy. I share my food when I have brought a sandwich to the park. I give five dollars and don't think about what I will do later. I can always drink water for the night, that and some saltiines will get me through til daylight. If a homeless man or woman asks for a cup of coffee, I ask if they want anything with that. Some request a buttered roll. I use a fiver and give them the food and the change. Again, I am not a wealthy man; but I give what I can. Not all are allowed into the stores, or they don't feel comfortable going in, that's why I make the purchase.

I keep my eyes open for Linus, it's springtime, and he gets about better this time of year. He starts each year, fresh haircut and a shave, by September his hair is longer and he could use another shave. If he sees me, he gets money, if not, I see him head into the local deli and I follow in, place my order and then pay for both of us. Linus was a hero to me a few years ago, back when he used to sit on a blanket across from St. Vincents asking for 'a dime' He always asks if you can 'spare a dime' never a bad word if a person can't or won't. I don't see as much of him in the winter months.

Sorry bear, I do give, I only bring it up when people such as you push the envelope and make it seem as if I don't. As I told you yesterday, I volunteered my services at two local places to help feed the seniors. Greenwich House does breakfast and lunch, Pompei, lunch only. I haven't done the same yet at St.Joseph's over on 6th Avenue, they also feed the homeless on Saturdays, followed hours later by an AA meeting there at 6.

I've escorted men and women to the hospital for detox, I've walked others to local AA meetings and waited across the street for them if they want someone to take them home, often they meet somebody there and are able to go for a bite to eat and a talk, I then either go home or take a walk to see who is sleeping in the park and local doorways.


I'm involved in chariitable deeds midlifebear, I only bring them up when pushed, I know true charity does not have to be held up as a banner, the way you did with the Meals On Wheels (which again, I'm grateful to you for your service there).

So, wish me a terrible life, think the worst of me, if that makes you happy, then more power to you.

 

[midlifebear]

Northland (who is obviously obsessed with becoming my personal Troll): Good for you. I'm gratified you have a social conscience. And I hope you continue to help others. To me (as well as to those you help) it means a lot.

By the way, did I ever satisfactorily answer your question what I mean about "bottom of the heap"? That was your big issue a couple of of posts back. Now, it seems you're obsessed with the fact that I recognize that I'm capable of experiencing schadenfreude -- or possibly that I even know such seven dollar words.

I still don't hate you. I've never hated you. I work hard at eliminating that emotion from my life. But you're following the "change the topic" and or "read more into something than what is really there" tricks usually employed by the majority of trolls attracted to the political threads. What's up with that?

And not only do I not hate you, I have hope that you will continue to be a positive contributing citizen in the world at large. I'm serious. Good luck with that. But now you seem to think I hope, eagerly await, and am looking forward to you eating cat food. I'm not. Although, my experience has been that those who don't hear themselves when they criticize others tend to be their own victims. And please don't misconstrue that to mean I somehow hope you victimize yourself. I don't.

But I am quite serious about you working on those: Calm blue oceans. Calm blue oceans. Calm blue oceans. . . . You seem to have a terribly short fuse. Maybe it's the pressure cooker of a city you live in. Possibly you're going through some very difficult period in your life. I have no idea. But a little serious meditation can go a long way to ameliorate life's problems.

As for faith healing. I'm still opposed to having a national health system pay for it. And given enough time, I hope you'll understand why I see "paying" for faith healing is crossing a very serious line; not just in "humanist" terms but also when it comes to separation of church and state.

Take care of yourself. :smile:

 

[FuzzyKen]

It is obvious that we have several people here with passionate belief systems. All individuals involved raise good points as it should be to debate with those opposed to their belief systems.

Right now we have a total of (4) pages of debate. Only the first part of this debate and discussion has anything to do with the subject at hand. Remember the subject of the thread? That Subject "Corporate-Funded mobs attack democracy".

This "hijacking" and going off subject has resulted in basically the reposting of this exact same subject creating a different thread and taking up more bandwidth.

At this point in time how do we get this thread back on track?

When we feel passionately about any issue we can easily become side-tracked into this situation. I have found myself in this situation.

I am going to try and say my peace at the other thread in hopes that it will not also become a victim of a hijack and head off into the sunset of personal opinions and head to a place to where nobody looking at page 4 can recognize anything resembling the subject matter mentioned on page 1.

 

[maxcok]

I am well aware of what you wrote. I am, as I have repeated again and again, I am looking for an equal playing field for all. You and you arrogant, ignorant asskissing friends, want to keep going with an equal with special seperations mindset. I outlined my experiences, and why I endorse certain things. When I indicated what I saw as your way of logic I was handed more of midlife and his failure to read what I wrote. He now thinks mockery is the way to go- well, whatever works for the ancient fart.

Looking beyond the confusing syntax of your post ("way of logic"? - an equal with special seperations mindset"??) I don't think you are looking for "an equal playing field" at all. I think you are looking for a platform from which to pontificate, intimidate, impress and antagonize. Like certain other posters on this board, I think you are entirely ego driven, impressed by your sense of self-importance, and for whatever reason desperately seeking attention in any form. And your 'logic' escapes me.

The problem with two faced hypocritical persons like yourself, is you never read what is written.

It seems to me that you are describing yourself here. Not only does it appear that you do not read what is written, you deliberately lie spin and twist the meaning to suit your own perverse purpose. Not content to stop there, you blatantly and deliberately change the quotes of other posters, not only to suit your purpose, but to ridicule and deride . At least you have done that to me, and I doubt I am the only one. Links within.

The proof of one having absolutely no ability to argue their case is when they place you on ignore.
The wiser, more mature method is to browse through and occasionally read what the poster has written.

I took your advice and did a search of some of your posts:

As I have told others, I do not claim to be a Christian.

When Christianity is connected to an organization it can get complicated. When a person is a Christian (which to me, would mean following Jesus Christ as a spiritual guide) but is not connected to a formal organization it is often (though not always) a little more open. People will remember that Jesus loved all and tried to help all, whether rich or poor sick or healthy, Jesus had but one goal, to show people the love of God (said to be our Father and Creator). In that mission, love was spread about to all-even at the end, while hanging on a cross, he was said to have asked forgiveness towards those who hung him there. Christianity as a way of life, without organization is more likely to be open minded, as there is not a council saying that one is living the life proscribed by Satan.

I take the teachings offered by the Christians and others as blueprints- guides if you will- for living life. They also offer hope, where many might otherwise have no hope. All I need to know is that I should attempt to not hurt my fellows as I traverse the highway of life as I currently have it.

I follow the basic teachings of Jesus (or try to, often falling short), which to me simply means living a caring and decent life, trying not to harm others and trying to help where and when I can.

Your profession of and adherence to Christianity, like your veracity, seems to fluctuate. Based on your conduct toward other posters and myself, here and elsewhere, excuse me for saying it, but I think you are "falling short". Of course, I've implied as much to you in another thread: #209

I am still perplexed how I, a complete stranger who had never so much as referred to you, became the object of your vicious attacks. Of course as you know, I gave you an opportunity to retract your malicious lies, insults, mischaracterizations and misstatements in another thread, and apologize if you felt inclined, but you have yet to respond. Rather, you commenced to following me from thread to thread, continuing your harrassment. I will not ask again, but the question remains.

And now it seems you are lashing out at any poster who dares to disagree with your exalted pronouncements. I have concluded that in addition to being a liar and a hypocrite, you are emotionally disturbed. Reading your posts it is hard to believe otherwise.

 

[maxcok]

It is obvious that we have several people here with passionate belief systems. All individuals involved raise good points as it should be to debate with those opposed to their belief systems.

This "hijacking" and going off subject has resulted in basically the reposting of this exact same subject creating a different thread and taking up more bandwidth.

When we feel passionately about any issue we can easily become side-tracked into this situation.

I would just like to point out that not all "hijackers" are the same.
There are those it seems whose very purpose is to hijack.

I also submit that not all "points" are equal. Just because someone makes a point does not automatically qualify it as a "good point" or even relevant to the discussion.

There are also those who make no "point" at all, but would rather just snipe and disrupt the discussion. I am not entirely without fault here myself, though I try to ignore such juvenile behavior from trolls. However, if I or other posters choose to call them out or even respond in kind, I don't feel we are equally to blame for the disintegration of the thread.

Speaking for myself, and perhaps contrary to appearances, I am actually a very laid-back and tolerant individual. But I have a low tolerance for arrogant blowhards, dishonest and cheap tactics among other things. It is not in my nature to let those things go unchallenged, or to roll over and play dead. After all, I think that is the aim of such trolling, to shout down or eliminate voices of intelligence and reason in the discussion, when they cannot compete on the exchange of ideas. I will in fact stand up and confront such behavior, as should now be clear.

 

[B_quietguy]

Now that the Supremes have given corporations the right to bribe officials (pay campaigns for politicians) under the guide of free speech, it's only a matter of time until corporations also get the right to vote, run for office, and sit on juries.

The next presidential election will be sponsored by Google-Apple-Disney and will be a runoff between FoxNews and Ford Motors.

 

[maxcok]

^ Thanks for bringing it back, quietguy. ^

 

[D_Harvey Schmeckel]

Well, I'm sorry to see abuse directed at myself from a source I put on ignore, but should not have looked. However, I will follow up the logical implications:

I put the person in question on ignore because he was extremely antagonistic and went straight to personal attack when I was focusing on substance. But putting him on ignore proves that I could not possibly deal with his irrefutable logic and winning demeanor, not that he deserves being put on ignore for abusiveness.

Having devoted many years of my life to research on "alternative religious traditions," I don't engage in arguments with Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientologists, etc. online because I don't want to argue with believers in anything, just discuss historical evidence with the historically inclined. Believers immediately become personally hostile as soon as you hint that the history of their faith tradition does not support their claims. But that's obviously just self-defensive avoidance: Mormonism, JWism, Scientology ALL must be irrefutably true as PROVEN by the fact that I decline to argue with their advocates.

 

[Indelicate]

Not tangential at all. In fact, it's the very heart of the problem - corporate control of the levers of government - the power behind the curtain - the wrench in the works - that which warps virtually every public policy and bit of legislation to serve the corporate interests.

Capitalism is a fine system, as long as there are strong consumer protections, reasonable regulation and control of the marketplace - and a solid wall between the government of the people and those who would corrupt and exploit it purely for profit. We have been on a steady slide away from that kind of balance for some time now. It doesn't take an economic genius to see where it's gotten us, or where we're headed. Follow the money.

"Free Market Fundamentalists" are adamantly opposed to any controls on the economic system that might diminish their short term gains, even if it destroys that system in the longer term. Elected officials - on both sides of the aisle - are addicted to cash to fund ever more expensive campaigns, and therefore increasingly beholden to their corporate benefactors. The public is oblivious, distracted by the issue du jour, smokescreens and bright shiny objects. The more we're bamboozled and pitted against each other, the easier it is for the dark powers to do their dirty deeds unnoticed.

Newsflash - our elected officials, our government, are not working for us. The way we allow corporations to fund (read buy) elections and put people in positions of power over us is at the root of it all. The way we allow armies of corporate lobbyists in and out the revolving backdoors of Congress and the White House seals our fate. Unless we seriously change this system, we will be little more than serfs dependent on our corporate masters. And it will continue to get worse, much worse.

The catch-22 is that the people we want to elect can't get there without piles of corporate cash. The next catch-22, unless they do the corporate bidding they'll be ousted for someone who will. The final and the worst catch-22, we are dependent on these very pigs at the trough to effect the change we need. They sure as hell aren't going to do it unless the people demand it, and even then, it's not highly likely. The people, even those aware of the problem, don't think it's that important. Most are oblivious. It's a simple equation really, and brilliantly self-sustaining.

But people think I bang this drum too much . . . oh well. Let's all relax and be good little consumers, okay? The cruel irony is that we are the ones feeding the beast. We are the ones being consumed,
until there's nothing left to consume. Enjoy it while you can.

No, they're not. Corporations, on the other hand, are non-human entities. They are not even inherently evil, it's just that they are designed for one purpose only: make bigger profits. You can't expect corporations to act responsibly and with compassion, they are not the same as people. Oh wait, I forgot. They are people now. Hey thanks, Supremes.

We are so fucked.

Absolutely.

I manage procurement supply contracts for a medium size hospital system (5 hospitals, 1200 beds). As a non-profit organization, we are no match in terms of staffing support to combat the for-profit corporate sales force who use every unethical trick in the book to squeeze the "deep pockets" of our organization.

High prices for new technology, much like new drugs is charged to the American public in the name of "research". A morsel of truth is used to deceive, which is evident when the sales rep calling on your facility lives in the same upper income neighborhood as the neurosurgeon to whom he sells his product line and drives the latest luxury sports car to his appointment with the supply chain manager.

For many years, these surgical supply companies have increased their prices annually 8% to 12% or more because either their product line was considered "unique" or all of the other competitors were following suit.

Now these companies are part of the lobbyist influence dictating the noise against health care reform. Hmmmm. I wonder why...

 

[MalakingTiti]

I don't what the answer is, but can surely say without hesitation that the present situation is unsustainable. Somebody needs to reform something.

 

[Northland]

Looking beyond the confusing syntax of your post ("way of logic"? - an equal with special seperations mindset"??) I don't think you are looking for "an equal playing field" at all. I think you are looking for a platform from which to pontificate, intimidate, impress and antagonize. Like certain other posters on this board, I think you are entirely ego driven, impressed by your sense of self-importance, and for whatever reason desperately seeking attention in any form. And your 'logic' escapes me.


It seems to me that you are describing yourself here. Not only does it appear that you do not read what is written, you deliberately lie spin and twist the meaning to suit your own perverse purpose. Not content to stop there, you blatantly and deliberately change the quotes of other posters, not only to suit your purpose, but to ridicule and deride . At least you have done that to me, and I doubt I am the only one. Links within.



I took your advice and did a search of some of your posts:








Your profession of and adherence to Christianity, like your veracity, seems to fluctuate. Based on your conduct toward other posters and myself, here and elsewhere, excuse me for saying it, but I think you are "falling short". Of course, I've implied as much to you in another thread: #209

I am still perplexed how I, a complete stranger who had never so much as referred to you, became the object of your vicious attacks. Of course as you know, I gave you an opportunity to retract your malicious lies, insults, mischaracterizations and misstatements in another thread, and apologize if you felt inclined, but you have yet to respond. Rather, you commenced to following me from thread to thread, continuing your harrassment. I will not ask again, but the question remains.

And now it seems you are lashing out at any poster who dares to disagree with your exalted pronouncements. I have concluded that in addition to being a liar and a hypocrite, ou are emotionally disturbed. Reading your posts it is hard to believe otherwise.

Following teachings of someone as a spiritual guide, I do not worship Jesus. There is a difference. I see the ideas attributed to Jesus, they seem like good ideas, they could have been created by Floyd on Sycamore Street for all I know or care. I place the name of Jesus and the reference to Christianity as reference points. One of the sections of my earlier writings, states- "I take the teachings offered by the Christians and others as blueprints- guides if you will- for living life. They also offer hope..."- Christians AND others, as in Bhuddists, Muslims, teachings of Judaism and so on. If I take all of them, then, I am not professing to be a Christian.

I am also quite taken, that you've decided, that by stating my belief system- which I have not said you must embrace, and by stating what I believe a health care bill should include, and by stating that I am for equality for all, equality in ability to receive education, health care, housing assistance and nutritional assistance, you decide to tell me I am 'emotionally disturbed'. No, I am only stating my beliefs, there is nothing in that equated to emotional disturbance.

Further, how to I break this news to you, I am not following you from thread to thread. I happened to post in a handful of threads which you've been in. If a topic interests me, I read it, there are dozens of threads in the Politics board, I've never even opened- some of which I've never read beyond the title. We are going to be in the same threads at times, this is not a matter of you being stalked, it's a matter of being on the same board and happening upon each other, similar to how you may happen upon your neighbors at times while out and about.

Lastly, I did not deliberately change quotes of posters, I quoted their text, in 2 cases, I misunderstood what had been written, you, midlife and nwnccpl, all have now chastized me for it. You did so while using insults, although you say that is what I do and that it is wrong for me to do so. In the one case where you wrote something, I had to severely edit, because there is a limit to the number of characters (letters, numbers, punctuation) allowed in a post.

 

[FuzzyKen]

I would just like to point out that not all "hijackers" are the same.
There are those it seems whose very purpose is to hijack.

I also submit that not all "points" are equal. Just because someone makes a point does not automatically qualify it as a "good point" or even relevant to the discussion.

There are also those who make no "point" at all, but would rather just snipe and disrupt the discussion. I am not entirely without fault here myself, though I try to ignore such juvenile behavior from trolls. However, if I or other posters choose to call them out or even respond in kind, I don't feel we are equally to blame for the disintegration of the thread.

Speaking for myself, and perhaps contrary to appearances, I am actually a very laid-back and tolerant individual. But I have a low tolerance for arrogant blowhards, dishonest and cheap tactics among other things. It is not in my nature to let those things go unchallenged, or to roll over and play dead. After all, I think that is the aim of such trolling, to shout down or eliminate voices of intelligence and reason in the discussion, when they cannot compete on the exchange of ideas. I will in fact stand up and confront such behavior, as should now be clear.

I would tend to agree with your concept with regards of defending against those individuals who make it a specific goal to short circuit any viewpoint with which they disagree. I also agree with the concept of defending against a personal attack which we all see in the politics section unfortunately more often than we should.

If we however do not approach the issue by bringing the thread back to the original topic we are just as guilty as those who have done the original dirty deed.

I have, like yourself seen many postings by a small but very vocal group of people I have come to know and love as professional "flame artists". These individuals will deliberately incite in order to destroy intelligent thought or reasoning. What is sad is that it is this same type of thinking within the political system itself that is proving effective at destroying meaningful progress by anyone in government other than those with vast quantities of money serving their own financial gain.

I am pleased to see that there are some individuals actually recognizing who the enemy is and understanding that giving gifts in any form to a major corporation is not going to help anyone.

Earlier in another posting a fellow offered the opinion that we should eliminate all health care and insurance benefits from the employment field as a solution to the problem. This same fellow went on to extend that to catastrophic care, long term care, and all the rest. I am surprised that this individual did not demand that we eliminate retirement benefits, workman's compensation insurance and any protection or benefit the worker has.

As history has progressed, these benefits were won and were an enticement to attract a high quality employee to a company because the benefit to that employee made it a worthwhile place to be employed.

The bottom line of his argument was interesting in that it did not address the main problem and it totally missed the concept that outrageous cost increases with diminishing benefits which shifted profits from one corporation in one industry to a different corporation providing this service at unaffordable rates was the problem.

The answer with these people is to always subvert without offering realistic solutions or to offer mis/disinformation as information.

In essence I want to quit this posting right now simply because it is defending myself in a calm and rational manner against a situation where we are dealing not with fact but with opinion.

 

[finsuptx]

So... I guess we're done talking about corporate mobs attacking democracy, and now we just nitpick on one another?

Just once I would like to take part in a discussion here that doesn't break down into a pissing match with 5000 words that have absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

I'd also like to point out, its not just American corporations that get a say in elections now. Foreign governments who own interests in various entities will be able to funnel millions to sway elections to their liking. Saudi Arabia, China, Russia, and Iran to name a few of the more bone-chilling possibilities.