Could you Kill it, Cook it, Eat it?

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by D_Andreas Sukov, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    First Night: Kill It, Cook It, Eat It | Media | guardian.co.uk

    Watched a considerable amount of this show and i was annoyed by those on it. I feel many acted with bravado, some were pathetic and some were just plain annoying.

    The show shows the life of farm animals from Birth to plate, with a group of vegans, meat eaters and so on following and joining in certain stages.

    For the most part i didnt mind it. Some parts i found disturbing.

    7 day old piglets were having their testicles removed as not to taint the meat. this itself didnt bother me. what bothered me was the fact it was done with nothing but a razor blade. The farmer justified it by saying its a medical procedure. Seems similar to when i had my apendix removed with a steak knife. I understand why they didnt use Annesthetic. The annesthetic takes around 2 hours to wear off affecting thier behaviour and getting them at higher risk of being crushed by their mother. What annoyed me was that Castration rings are far more humane IMO and just as effective. for those that dont know a castration ring is a clip that goes on the skin above the testes cutting off the blood supply untill the tissue simply dies and falls off. the same is used for tails of sheep etc.

    That was not my actual question that was just my view.

    The whole question of the show is could you do it yourself? Personally i could. If i had to catch animals in the wild and kill it, i would not be bothered at all by the whole thing as i would take my care to repsect the animal im about to eat. I would treat it as prey but would not see it as a material, which was my issue with alot of stages of the Abottoir. I dont think i could work at an abottoir myself, but as i stated i see alot of it as not seeing it as an animal. One part in particular, is the hair removal process where the animal was put in something akin to a washing machine.

    My question to you is could you kill it? have you ever worked at an abottoir? whats your view on the program if you saw it?

    *for all those that will say im a hypocrite for eating the meat which i have issues to how it is prepared, i dont object to it, and i also have issues with most news companies yet i listen and read them as i have no other means of obtaining news. think about that before you attack me as a "silly Liberal" or something
     
  2. Principessa

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    I had to look up abbatoir. :redface:

    It would depend on the animal in question and the device utilized for it's demise whether or not I could kill it. As the first generation on my fathers side of the family not to be born and bred on a farm I would feel honor bound to at least try to kill something.

    My nana used to just snap the necks of the chickens, with her bare hands. I don't think I could do that. :no: I bet if there was a chopping block I could do it with a machete. :biggrin1: I vaguely recall helping to pluck a chicken as a very small child. So I could most likely do that again. As for a larger animal like a lamb or sheep nope, couldn't do it. I'm 99% sure I could cook it and eat it though.
     
  3. AquaEyes11010

    AquaEyes11010 Active Member

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    My freshman year of college was spent as an Animal Sciences major. I was originally intent on becoming a veterinarian (changed my mind...long story). At a lab for one of my courses, I was witness to the castration of two male calves, also done with a razor blade and an iodine solution for disinfecting. While piglets will scream and squeal at merely being held, I was surprised that the only "objection" apparent from the calves during the procedure was when they were made to lie down on their sides. Once the animal calmed down, it barely blinked when its scrotum was cut open with a triangular hole, and the testicles were pulled out one at a time (doing so allowed the connective tissue to stretch thin and snap, thus self-cauterizing).

    While I found it difficult to watch, I was told by the professor that the blade was so sharp that he had several times accidentally cut himself and realized it only when the moisture of his own blood on his skin was felt. When finished, the calves were left to get up on their own, and they went about their business as though nothing happened. The hole in the scrotum was left open so as to allow drainage during healing. Someone did mention utilizing a procedure similar to what you described (castration rings), and the professor said that before the tissue died completely and fell off, there would be a greater chance of infection, and the rings themselves would cause more discomfort for a longer time than the razor blade procedure. I quickly learned that in terms of animal husbandry on a farm, the quickest, easiest and most cost effective means to an end are preferred by those who make their living on livestock. It was a bit of a harsh reality check for me, and it certainly affected my feelings about my major at the time, but I can assure you that if the calves felt any pain from the procedure, there were no outward signs of that apparent to me.
     
    #3 AquaEyes11010, Jan 6, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  4. B_Mademoiselle Rouge

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    i'd be a vegetarian for sure.
     
  5. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    no, strict vegan here
     
  6. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    i did question in my head about infection from the rings.... It just seems to me that such a sensitve area using just a standard blade is alitte iffy. Im not expecting each animal to be laid on a table for a vet to remove each with a scalpel or something but there surely must be a nicer way....

    thanks for giving far more expertise on the issue than i could, and teaching me a few things aswell, namely the self cauterizing
     
  7. AquaEyes11010

    AquaEyes11010 Active Member

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    Oh, and to answer the title question....I don't know. As of now, the only meat I eat is pastured organic, and that's only a few times a month at most. I don't think it's hypocritical of me to eat meat if I am not willing/able to slaughter and prepare the carcass myself. Most of the things in my life have been prepared or created by other people. Is it hypocritical of me to watch television if I have no interest in electronics? Should I become a nudist if I don't wish to make my own clothes? Civilization is dependent on labor distribution and specialization. If we didn't trade our specialties and were totally subsistent, we would be set back to early agriculture or hunter-gatherer times.
    :)
     
  8. Mem

    Mem
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    They remove babies foreskins when they are a few days old. Ouch. :eek::frown1:
     
  9. B_Mademoiselle Rouge

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    What does that have to do with hunting, killing and cooking animals? Don't we have enough debate on foreskin by now? Geez.
     
  10. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    i believe mem meant testicles
     
  11. B_Mademoiselle Rouge

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    He's talking about infants foreskin, not animal testicles.
     
  12. DiscoBoy

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    My mother does this in my basement. She always asks that I hold the chicken down so she can saw through its neck. I've done it once or twice when she's bribed, but otherwise, I've absolutely refused.

    Ultimately, if I needed to do it to survive, then yes, I could do it.
     
  13. Countryguy63

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    OK,

    Lot's of experience here. Whether that makes me bad in your opinion or not, I cannot control. Raised on country life.

    First, what needs addressed is the difference between animals and humans. The pain tolerance is completely different. No, animals can't tell you, but watching how they react to accidents and injuries is very telling. Things that animals don't blink an eye to, we would be writhing in pain. I AM NOT callous to the pain of animals, just understand it more than most who have no experience with it. Putting human emotions and feelings is what I call "Bambi-izing" them. Enough with the soap box.

    Lemon, castration bands, while very effective on sheep, goats, and cattle, cannot be used on pigs because of the make up of the scrotum. The previous mentioned animals have hanging scrotums, basically like ours only different size of course :eek:. Swine (pigs) are made up much differently. Here is a pic of a mature Hampshire cross (Exotic) boar . Notice on the rear end (behind the hams), the scotum is tighter against the skin, because of the placement (not hanging below). The space between the testicles and the body where the band would be placed, is not there.

    I have castrated more pigs than I can count. While I do not consider it fun, it is a necessary if they are not going to be used for breeding, but for market. As aquaeyes stated, piglets will squeal (loudly), just from being picked up or restrained. Unexplainably, the squealing does not increase when the procedure is being performed. You and I would be screaming in pain!! Again, I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe anything they don't want to, nor do I have undisputable proof. In other words, I'm not going to argue with anyone, just offering an explaination based on experience.

    Anyway, to answer the Topic question, Yes, I would and most defintiely have. Can it be hard at times, you bettcha! I mentor kids who raise livestock for the fairs (sold at auction to go to market) and here's what I teach them... It's ok and preferrable to build and develop a kind and loving relationship with your animal. It's ok to express sadness once that animal is sold (They have seen me shed many unashamed tears over my daughters pigs). We did not change that animals future, and knew what it's destination was. We gave it the love and individual care that it would not have otherwise received if left to be raised on a production farm.

    Long way of saying "Ya, I would" lol
     
  14. whatireallywant

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    Nope.

    I'm very squeamish. I can't stand to look at or touch raw meat. However, I'll eat it if someone else cooks it (and if it is cooked all the way through - no trace of pink AT ALL! They hate me at steak houses because I offend their sensibilities by ordering my steaks well done...)

    As for killing it, I actually would have an easier time (depending on the methods) doing that than cooking it! I have been fishing, after all, and while I can't clean and fillet the fish (gets my squeamish up!), I can catch the fish and all... I've never been hunting but I probably could - but then I'd not be able to prepare the animal for meat or cook the meat. Yeah, I'm weird...
     
  15. HUNGHUGE11X7

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    ABSOLUTELY NOT !

    HELL NO and never will , I would starve to death first .... you could not pay me a million dollars to work at an abattoir. I know I could do a great deal of good with the money but I could not have that on my conscience !

    Never seen it but from what I read it appalls me.

    HH
     
  16. DaveyR

    DaveyR Retired Moderator
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    Yes I could and I have.

    When we lived in Scotland I raised rabbits and ducks which all ended up being eaten. I don't see it as any different to buying meat at the supermarket. You are just getting someone else to do the dirty work.
     
  17. Viking_UK

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    I'm a little squeamish about the actual killing, but everything that happens after that is no problem. I suppose if it was a case of having to do it to survive I would be prepared to kill an animal, but I'd rather not do it if I didn't have to.

    If you're squeamish, it's probably best if you don't read any further.


    We bred sheep for the table when I was young. Every now and then one would be taken into the barn to have its throat slit. These days, you have to take them to the slaughterhouse/abbatoir where they're dispatched more humanely. My grandad used to butcher the carcasses and my mother and granny processed the meat and offal. All I can say is the meat was delicious, and you can't beat home-made black pudding and sausages.

    We castrated the male lambs using the elastic rings. I don't remember any of them ever having complications.

    When I was 16, I got a part-time job after school with the local vet, helping out in the surgery. We castrated loads of dogs and cats. They were all anaesthetised, but it was a case of slitting the scrotum and pulling out the testes. The tubes snap and spring back, sealing themselves and the wounds were left to heal by themselves. We also spayed bitches and cats regularly, but that's a bit more complicated. I also had to assist with putting animals to sleep, which was the only part of the job I didn't like.

    I also used to go out with the vet to the local farms and smallholdings to help with lambing, vaccinations etc. Castrating bull calves was basically the same as castrating the dogs, but without anaesthetic. The calf carries on as if nothing's happened, whereas with the elastic rings on the lambs, they were in obvious pain for about half an hour afterwards. The rings are less messy, but I think slit and snap is more humane.
     
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