cretinism^H^H^H CREATIONISM at the friggin ZOO

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Dr Rock, Jun 10, 2005.

  1. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east 'neath the willow tree? Sex
  2. hippyscum

    hippyscum New Member

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    That's almost as bad as that University in Texas that refused to teach anything related to the Theory Of Evolution, because it was "just a theory".
     
  3. DC_DEEP

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    Thanks, DrR. I am so DAMNED tired of the motherfucker politically-correct idiot assholes. I am equally tired of the religious fanatics with the IQ of a pickled beet. Alright, if they want to waste taxpayer money to appease some foaming-at-the-mouth bible-thumping literalist fundamentalist christian, so be it. But do it right. Gather creation stories from at least 7 or 8 cultures, plus the bigbang/evolution story, put them ALL side-by-side, and have a compare-and-contrast theme in the exhibit. <sigh> caving in to the fanatics. Why can they not understand that the Ganesh was there, not to convert all the good christians to be heathens, but to "this animal was so important to these people that it was interwoven with their religious beliefs."
     
  4. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east &#039;neath the willow tree? Sex
    ... and don&#39;t do it at the fucking zoo, which has nothing to do with anybody&#39;s religion.
     
  5. DC_DEEP

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    <thoughts drifting back to high school>
    Too bad they couldn&#39;t have used that sort of reasoning for some of my math & physics classes, too. I can just imagine Geometry without theorems (they are just theorized) and postulates (simply postulated, not proven.)

    And of course, relativity does not exist, it is just a theory. Can you really prove to me, with supporting scriptures, that energy is really equal to mass times speed of light times speed of light?
     
  6. major_7

    major_7 New Member

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    Well, the townfolk there sure jumped on the bandwagon. It is scary that THE PEOPLE can get whipped into such a frenzy. A little bit here, a little more there. It ain&#39;t gonna be pretty.
     
  7. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    The only frenzy I see being whipped up is on this board.

    I&#39;m a creationist and I see nothing wrong with a little diversity. Remember that word, guys? It goes both ways, for heaven&#39;s sake (oops I said heaven.....)

    Please stop calling somebody stupid or an idiot simply because he disagrees with your point of view. That&#39;s prejudicial and leftists aren&#39;t supposed to be biased, are they?

    All I want you to do is to recognize my right to periodic passes from the funny farm.
     
  8. jay_too

    jay_too New Member

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    quote from article:
    Zoo officials had argued that the zoo does not advocate religion and that displays like the elephant statue are meant to show the animal&#39;s image among cultures. The same exhibit includes the Republican Party&#39;s elephant symbol.

    I hope that make it clear that this is a Christian elephant....otherwise, there will be fundie heartburn.
     
  9. db03

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    People have way too much time on their hands today...

    What the fuck will they think of next???? :grr:
     
  10. Freddie53

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    ... and don&#39;t do it at the fucking zoo, which has nothing to do with anybody&#39;s religion.
    [post=319421]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]
    As a social studies teacher, DC is correct. If origins of the species is going to be presented at the zoo, then all the major religions beliefs need to be presented along with the theory of evolution of the development of species. Species evolving and changing can be proved. Jumping species as Darwin proposed is still a theory, but it has just as much right to be there as any other explanation.

    However, Dr. Rock has a point. I don&#39;t suppose there is a real reason that it can&#39;t be at the zoo. I suppose the exhibits could be in the restrooms or perhaps they could be set up down at the solid disposal site that each city now has.

    If the city is small and wants to include this meusum of ancient mythologys and modern science thoughts on othe origin of the world and specific species, it should be set up in its own area as a separate part, not just interspered along with all the animals along the walking trail.

    Either way, to be constitutionally sound, all major creation stories from religion need to be displayed if one is and the scientific theories of the origins should definitately be on display as well. And no comment should be written as part of the display that puts the zoo as endorsing and saying any one exhibit is truer than any other.

    And Pecker, I respect your right to believe in Creationism as you believe it. I don&#39;t think you should personally be called terrible names for your beliefs. I hope you will agree with me for the need to present all ancient cultures viewpoints on these things and well as modern science theories. Actually beliefs of the ancient cultures is supposed to be a part of the social studies curriculum which ever grade "World Cultures" is taught.

    For those who don&#39;t know. Islam is the newest of the major religions. And it was forumulated nearly 1500 years ago. So a study of the beliefs of ancient cultures gives the foundatoin of the beliefs of modern cultures as well. Even the Communist cultures weren&#39; able to shake off the traditions of the ancient cultures of the people who were under Communist rule.
     
  11. DC_DEEP

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    "<sigh> Alright, let me explain that one more time."
    "<sigh> Alright, let me explain that one more time."
    "<sigh> Alright, let me explain that one more time."
    Pecker, it is not the belief I have a problem with. Please re-read my post.
    It is the aggressive, forceful, threatening proselytizing that I find so offensive. Please re-read my original post in this thread. It going both ways is EXACTLY my point. Since almost every one of my posts in this sort of thread arouses the ire of one or more of the faithful, I will (at the risk of sounding redundant again) repeat the reiteration of the re-post from another thread that I repeatedly reiterate: If I make a comment or generalization, and it does not apply to you or your particular views, then it does not apply to you or your views and you should not take offense.

    Do I believe as do the Hindus? No, of course not. Do I recognize that they have some incredible, exquisite, beautiful art related to their religion? Certainly I do.

    If I say "Here we have elephants. Elephants are really cool animals. So cool, in fact, that at least one major religion has incorporated elephants into their theology - and made some really cool art in the process. See Ganesh? He&#39;s cool-looking, huh?" that does not mean that I am endorsing or proselytizing the Hindu faith. It is simply recognizing that elephants are pretty cool, and I am not the only one who thinks so. Making the assumption that my recognition of the art is an endorsement of the beliefs of the artist is absurd, you have to admit. I have seen, and admired, lots of christian paintings in the National Gallery of Art. Does that mean I endorse christianity? Of course not. Should I indignantly demand that the National Gallery place an atheist-themed painting next to each religious one? No, that would be STUPID. Do you see my analogy here?
     
  12. DC_DEEP

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    Also interesting is the fact that you call me a leftist, and indirectly (but gramatically) call me prejudicial. I&#39;m not - that&#39;s one of the big debates I often have with (self-proclaimed) conservatives. Perhaps you can elucidate for me. My assertion is that if I legally marry my partner, that has no palpable effect upon anyone but me and him. They counter that it is wrong, and they should be able to legally prevent me from being married, because if I marry, then I am forcing them to embrace my beliefs.

    From another angle... say, for instance, a couple - both 18 years old - gets married in Oil Trough, Arkansas. They work hard, pay their taxes, never stray outside the county, make each other very happy, grow old, and die 70 years later. How does that affect you, personally? And say, for instance, an influential person, because of his religious beliefs, convinces a lawmaker to pass a law that prohibits marrying someone of the same eye color. He is having a profound, negative on people other than himself.
     
  13. mindseye

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    These things have a way of backfiring. People go on trips to the zoo because it&#39;s &#39;educational&#39;. I can well imagine a lot of Tulsan children have never heard of Ganesh, and so the display near the elephants has a practical value.

    Even at a young age, children learn a lot about context. It doesn&#39;t take long for a child to realize that it&#39;s okay to run around the house barefoot (...in your underwear, ...naked), but that it&#39;s not okay to do that at school. I learned early on that there was something &#39;special&#39; about libraries, because you had to be quiet in them as soon as you walked in.

    And in my household, there were a lot of books on a set of shelves, but the Bible was kept on a stand on the mantle. Placing the Bible separate and apart from the other books was a way of showing that it was distinctive and special and different.

    These fundamentalists that insist that God has to be on display all over the place -- at the zoo, at schools, on their bumper stickers -- are destroying that sense of separateness and specialness that God had back where I grew up. When the message shows up everywhere and often, you learn to tune it out much as you do that annoying commercial that they play during every programming break.

    Insisting that God be part of the zoo display puts him on equal footing with Ganesh; had the fundamentalists remained quiet and kept God out of the zoo, they could have continued to maintain the illusion that their religion is different and above other religions.
     
  14. Dr. Dilznick

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    <!--QuoteBegin-Dr. Dilznick

    I for one would be more than willing to debate creationists. If anyone is interested, don&#39;t forget to list the many NON Christian scientists and their credentials (no pharmacists or mail-order "Doctors" please) as well as the academic journals in which their work has been published.
    [/quote]
     
  15. madame_zora

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    For one things, leftists are just as biased as right-wingers, moderates are supposed to be unbiased. The offensive difference I see between the current left and the current right is this: who is affected? The current left (to which I belong, biased as HELL) believes we should stay the FUCK out of each other&#39;s personal business. The current right is lobbying to control every aspect of our lives to conform to THEIR beliefs, which many do not hold. That is dictatorship. No, you will not find me being accpeting of YOUR beliefs that you have a right to control ME. Sorry, ain&#39;t gonna happen.

    As for Creationism, I have many times said that I have respect for your RIGHT to hold you beliefs, but that doesn&#39;t mean I respect the belief itself. I don&#39;t. I don&#39;t automatically respect every opinion of every person, just because it&#39;s their opinion, but I do repect their RIGHT to hold that opinion. If someone takes offense and feels that I am attacking THEM because I disagree with their BELIEFS, I&#39;m sorry, but that&#39;s too bad. It isn&#39;t possible to agree with everyone&#33; I feel that this position is short-sighted, dare I say, stupid. I respect everyone&#39;s right to feel how they feel, but when their beliefs affect MY LIFE, I have a right to rebuke them soundly, and that&#39;s what&#39;s happending here. There isn&#39;t much need to rebuke the leftists because all they are saying is essentially "mind your own damned business&#33;"
     
  16. jonb

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    That&#39;s not an Indian saying.
     
  17. SpeedoGuy

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    Is the faith of Christians so feeble that government resources are needed to prop up their creation myths?

    While there&#39;s nothing inherently wrong with religious faith, problems arise when faith tries to masquerade as science. Creationism, in my opinion, is the pre-eminent example of faith masquerading as science today.

    I respect the constitutional right of the faithful to worship and believe as they see fit. But if the faithful want to use public resources to promote religion (and that&#39;s what touting Creationism in public places is), they shouldn&#39;t be surprised when their faith becomes fair game for scathing scrutiny from every direction.

    SG
     
  18. Freddie53

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    For one things, leftists are just as biased as right-wingers, moderates are supposed to be unbiased. The offensive difference I see between the current left and the current right is this: who is affected? The current left (to which I belong, biased as HELL) believes we should stay the FUCK out of each other&#39;s personal business. The current right is lobbying to control every aspect of our lives to conform to THEIR beliefs, which many do not hold.

    I respect everyone&#39;s right to feel how they feel, but when their beliefs affect MY LIFE, I have a right to rebuke them soundly, and that&#39;s what&#39;s happending here. There isn&#39;t much need to rebuke the leftists because all they are saying is essentially "mind your own damned business&#33;"
    [post=319499]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]
    Jana,

    Where did you get the idea that people should mind their own damned business? What is this idea about people having the freddom to formulate their own political beliefs?

    I expected better of you. :evilgrin: What are you trying to do? Enforce the Declaration of Independence? Bet the Bill of Rights to the U.S. Constitution is next on your list of documents that should be enforced. And I just shudder knowing you will bring out the 14th amendment next.

    Can&#39;t we just go back to when only white men who owned large tracts of land and paid a poll tax got to vote. If we could go back to slavery we could compete with those Chinese in prices and help Ford and GM out of their misery.

    What can you expect though from a woman who believes in democracy?

    Poor Jana. Wanting equal rights for everyone. She is just a poor misguided girl. If we could just get her in one of those reeducation camps we might be able to help her.
     
  19. absinthium

    absinthium New Member

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    I, for one, applaud these gentlemen.
    Bravo, Sirs.
    Fucking Hindus think they can just waltz in and set up their heathen idols next to OUR elephants...
    God forbid someone in this country should gaze upon something that reminds them that religions other than Christianity exist.

    Seriously, how Kindergarten is that?
    "Well, the Hindus have an elephant statue and those OTHER Indians have their religion represented, why not MINE? Boohoo, it&#39;s not fair&#33;&#33;&#33;"
    Why won&#39;t anyone grow up?
     
  20. madame_zora

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    Maybe the elephants were angry, did you ever think of that?
     
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