Crisis in egypt tells us its time to cut mubarak loose.....

[midlifebear]

Weird...many ppl who feel the US should not play "policemen of the world".

Damned if we do/don't. Moreover, these days is damned if WHOM does it.

If you can replace the pronoun in the sentence to he or she, then the correct use is who.

If you can place the pronoun in question with him, her, or them, then the correct use is whom.

I'm more than happy to be the policeman of correct English usage. :soapbox:

Oh, and by the way, you are welcome. :smile:

 

[dandelion]

Yep, the emperor has no clothes.

NCbear (who's sorry to say that the American Dream has been, is, and may always be irretrievably tainted by the degree to which we've been unable to understand and/or follow the principles in our nation's own founding documents :frown1

From what I have gathered - mostly here being as uninformed about foriegn history as most people are - the US today is rather different to the confederation which the founders had in mind. The president of the US may have the small inconvenience of elections, but western democracies generally work on the electoral college system, where there are really only two or at most three contenders for the throne. Not so very different to some of the more enlightened kingdoms of the past where one or two of the blood royal vied to be next king.

As the most powerful king in the world today, the president of the US is as tempted as any other to bend his power to growing his kingdom. And as short sighted as any other king in history. Perhaps more so, because he is not mindfull of an unbroken line behind him or looking forward to passing on a strong inheritance to his own sons. So its always short term. Who cares how many hate us next year so long as we bend them to our will for now.

I may be wrong, but did the constitution envisage the worlds most powerful standing army?

 

[vince]

Yep, the emperor has no clothes.

NCbear (who's sorry to say that the American Dream has been, is, and may always be irretrievably tainted by the degree to which we've been unable to understand and/or follow the principles in our nation's own founding documents :frown1

A friend of mine says that democratic revolution and self-determination are the only things the U.S never exported.

I don't understand what the post WW2 American governments have been so afraid of. They supported the dictators of South America through thick and thin and now that they are mostly gone, has the sky fallen? NO. They backed the wrong sides in SE Asia in the 1950s and 60s despite being allies with Ho Chi Ming against the Japanese and now they have good relations with the former enemy.

Now Obama and Clinton seem to have learned nothing from Iran circa 1979. The people are going to have their revolution and the US and Europe are going to be left standing on the sidelines looking like losers. Western govts should be seen to be supporting the people not the despots.

 

[b.c.]

Mubarak will be gone. However i too, fear his replacement. If this story is true, we may have set the whole Middle East into a turmoil.


Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising - Telegraph

"WE??" or WI-kileaks?

 

[midlifebear]

Well, I thought this was a joke, but it seems this is a copy of an original FOX News graphic before --- I hope --- they fixed it. If they didn't, I wonder where FAUX NEWZ believes Iraq is?

Click on the offending .jpg below.

 

[Gillette]

Well, I thought this was a joke, but it seems this is a copy of an original FOX News graphic before --- I hope --- they fixed it. If they didn't, I wonder where FAUX NEWZ believes Iraq is?

Click on the offending .jpg below.

Bwaa ha ha ha!
Wow.

 

[eurotop40]

Bwaa ha ha ha!
Wow.

Well, then look at this...

 

[RawDog]

This is going to sound selfish, but I just want this crisis over with ASAP because it's totally fucking up my stock portfolio. If anyone's got Hosni's email address can you let him know? I doubt he checks his PMs.

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

GOODBYE, HOSNI, you old tyrant, you. thanks for being there to do our dirty work for us and accepting our 3 decades shipments of tear gas, weapons and largesse ( and lets not forget killing and torturing gays, which you do SOOOOOOO well!)
do let us know about your afterlife. maybe we can get the history channel to do a series about you. Toodles !:biggrin1:

if he does leave he'll be set up somewhere in exile without worry or want. thats the way it is. the only problen the group trying to take over will make him look like a sissy in comparrison. don't think you'll be any safer from killing or toture.

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

Well, I thought this was a joke, but it seems this is a copy of an original FOX News graphic before --- I hope --- they fixed it. If they didn't, I wonder where FAUX NEWZ believes Iraq is?

Click on the offending .jpg below.

photoshop nice try, as if it really even matters.

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

Mubarak will be gone. However i too, fear his replacement. If this story is true, we may have set the whole Middle East into a turmoil.


Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising - Telegraph

sorry freind this region has been like this forever. the last place you want to be for human rights. this isn't news. be greatfull you don't live there.

 

[deleted15807]

The US double standard over Mubarak and say China is stark for all to see.

US power and self interest doesn't give a shit about freedom in Egypt or anywhere else for that matter. We all knew this didn't we? It's just cosy to pretend it is otherwise.

It's no different than any other country. Britain, France, you name it all did the same at one time or another. What is diplomacy but self-interest?

 

[798686]

Does seem like time for him to leave (no choice?).

I think...altho he's been a valuable ally, and helped stability in the region, he's failed to modernise his country and allow his ppl the rights and freedoms that are demanded nowadays. US should quietly tell him it's time to go.

While they're at it, I think the US should withold payments to Israel until they stop building new settlements.

In terms of China (as Drifter mentioned) the EU seems keen to lift the arms embargo, in return for China's propping up of ailing eurozone economies (despite their still-poor human rights record).

 

[Drifterwood]

It's no different than any other country. Britain, France, you name it all did the same at one time or another. What is diplomacy but self-interest?

If you ever end up in court, don't rely on a defence that you saw someone else doing a similar thing.

If you want to point out that the exercising of power can sometimes be a dirty business, then I would not disagree. However this is every despot's defence.

 

[SilverTrain]

second time today someone has said 'careful what you wish for'. The US wished for leaders in the middle east hated by their own people and dependant on the US to stay in office. So what has it got now? whole countries which hate the US and everything it stands for.

Lol, it didn't take you long to turn this into a shit on the USA thread.

Perhaps we should make that a sub-forum: Potshots Aplenty!

 

[TomCat84]

If you ever end up in court, don't rely on a defence that you saw someone else doing a similar thing.

If you want to point out that the exercising of power can sometimes be a dirty business, then I would not disagree. However this is every despot's defence.

Oh stop it. You got his point- and the point was valid.

 

[maxcok]

second time today someone has said 'careful what you wish for'. The US wished for leaders in the middle east hated by their own people and dependant on the US to stay in office. So what has it got now? whole countries which hate the US and everything it stands for.

Lol, it didn't take you long to turn this into a shit on the USA thread.

Perhaps we should make that a sub-forum: Potshots Aplenty!

Yeah, maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen many incidents of Obama being burned in effigy or "Death to America" signs among the Egyptian protestors. Maybe I'm naive, but this seems to be pretty much a domestic issue. Then again, maybe I'm dense, or maybe I'm biased, or maybe I have an agenda. :wink:

 

[maxcok]

Yep, the emperor has no clothes.

NCbear (who's sorry to say that the American Dream has been, is, and may always be irretrievably tainted by the degree to which we've been unable to understand and/or follow the principles in our nation's own founding documents :frown1

There are those among us who do understand and do follow them. I wish those voices would speak out more and be heard above the cacophony. Sadly, people come to power supported by the ignorant, for whom those principles are easily compromised in pursuit of their ideological agenda. The irony of right-wing conservatives, e.g., the Teabaggers and those in the so-called "Patriot" movements, using the Constitution as their rallying standard is laughable. The very real threat posed by them is not funny at all. They should be taken very seriously and denounced for their ignorance and hypocrisy at every opportunity.

 

[B_New End]

Yeah, maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen many incidents of Obama being burned in effigy or "Death to America" signs among the Egyptian protestors. Maybe I'm naive, but this seems to be pretty much a domestic issue. Then again, maybe I'm dense, or maybe I'm biased, or maybe I have an agenda. :wink:

Controversial tear gas canisters made in the USA - CNN

also, there have been chants of "down with mubarak, American collaborator."

 

[maxcok]

Controversial tear gas canisters made in the USA - CNN

also, there have been chants of "down with mubarak, American collaborator."

So? Much of the paramilitary equipment owned by the Egyptians is US made, as is true with many of our allies, even some of our enemies. Though that may be relevant in a related discussion, I fail to see how it connects to or detracts from the point of my post.

I have no doubt there will be elements among the protestors whipping up anti-American sentiment and trying to capitalize on it, and some for whom that is a genuine concern. Not to mention there are always fringe elements in any social/political protest who have a narrow agenda divergent from the main focus of the protest, which is not to say America's support of the Mubarak government, past or present, is an illegitimate criticism. But again, that doesn't negate what I said in my post:

. . . I haven't seen many incidents of Obama being burned in effigy or "Death to America" signs among the Egyptian protestors. Maybe I'm naive, but this seems to be pretty much a domestic issue. . . .

Perhaps I should have added "at least for now" to be perfectly clear.

For the record, I do not sanction the 'imperialist' goals of the US or any other nation, nor the support of illegitimate undemocratic governments - never have, doubt I ever will. So I'm not going to follow you off on that tangent, k?