Crisis in egypt tells us its time to cut mubarak loose.....

B_New End

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So? Much of the paramilitary equipment owned by the Egyptians is US made, as is true with many of our allies, even some of our enemies. Though that may be relevant in a related discussion, I fail to see how it connects to or detracts from the point of my post.

I have no doubt there will be elements among the protestors whipping up anti-American sentiment and trying to capitalize on it, and some for whom that is a genuine concern. Not to mention there are always fringe elements in any social/political protest who have a narrow agenda divergent from the main focus of the protest, which is not to say America's support of the Mubarak government, past or present, is an illegitimate criticism.

I think Mubarak's support by the US government is a huge reason why he is so despised, and Obama and Clinton know better than to give their seal of approval to any replacement, as that would be the kiss of death.
 

maxcok

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^ Continuing with the rest of my quoted post from the point you edited it in order to fill in the context:
. . . . But again, that doesn't negate what I said in my post:
. . . I haven't seen many incidents of Obama being burned in effigy or "Death to America" signs among the Egyptian protestors. . . . .
Perhaps I should have added "at least for now" to be perfectly clear.

For the record, I do not sanction the 'imperialist' goals of the US or any other nation, nor the support of illegitimate undemocratic governments - never have, doubt I ever will. So I'm not going to follow you off on that tangent, k?
In my outsider observer opinion, the reason he is blamed/despised is first and foremost for a lack of economic opportunity, particularly among the young male educated class, secondarily a lack peoples' voice in the government to hopefully change the first, and thirdly for a perceived lack of personal freedom.
 
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MercyfulFate

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As I've said before, riots like this will just keep happening. I hope to the point of world wide chaos, tear down the system and rebuild it.
 

TomCat84

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I think Mubarak's support by the US government is a huge reason why he is so despised, and Obama and Clinton know better than to give their seal of approval to any replacement, as that would be the kiss of death.

Don't quit your day job, buddy- you're no foreign policy expert
 

TomCat84

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The point is not valid. It is a diversionary excuse.

Of course it's valid. All superpwoers in history have done this stuff. It's neither moral or immoral- they just do. In fact, all countries look out for their interests. Why should the US be singled to be shat on?
 

helgaleena

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Of course it's valid. All superpwoers in history have done this stuff. It's neither moral or immoral- they just do. In fact, all countries look out for their interests. Why should the US be singled to be shat on?


That's right. Spread that shit. :tongue:

In the news: internet crackdown in Egypt
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/networking/the-internet-goes-dark-in-egypt/613?tag=nl.e539

and about Egypt in China
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/perlow/eg...ternet-access-a-human-right/15746?tag=nl.e539
 
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B_VinylBoy

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So it appears Mubarak has made a statement. He says that he will not run for another term in office and promises to listen to the people about any reforms that they want. However, considering the circumstances in that country I don't think that's going to be enough. With protests crowds going past a million, it's more than apparent that the citizens of Egypt want Mubarak out of government and out of Egypt right now... not in another six years when they are supposed to do another election.

What a major part of our world history.
 
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Will certainly be interesting. I don't think it's possible for him to stay on.

Hopefully it'll give chance for democratic reforms (with El Baradhei?), rather than radical Islamists gaining power. :/
 

maxcok

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It would certainly be preferable to have a smooth transition of power following free and fair elections scheduled for September, rather than an immediate power vacuum leading to more instability, more violence, the potential rise of disruptive extremist elements, or who knows what. IMHO.

We'll have to wait and see if the protestors accept this latest concession, which by the way, was apparently 'suggested and encouraged' by the "evil" US administration. These are extraordinary times in the Middle East, and it's anybody's guess where it all leads. I have a feeling it's just the beginning of major changes.
 
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B_New End

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Don't quit your day job, buddy- you're no foreign policy expert

I know a fuck of a lot more than you... ...buddy.
You think if Clinton or Obama say, "we approve of this guy", that Egypt will welcome him with open arms?

Wanna make a bet on it?

I hope Egypt spirals into bloody revolution French style, and emerges with an example of the world's most progressive society... French style.
 

B_New End

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I think Mubarak's support by the US government is a huge reason why he is so despised, and Obama and Clinton know better than to give their seal of approval to any replacement, as that would be the kiss of death.

from

Obama says Egypt's transition 'must begin now' - CNN.com

----In the past week, demonstrators in Egypt have questioned why Obama, who championed human rights and democracy in a 2009 speech in Cairo, wasn't condemning Mubarak and applying pressure to help bring the changes they seek.----




Have you ever wondered why, when a terrorist blows a bunch of people up in Iraq, the people go out and protest the government for failing to provide security?

It's not because they are angry the government failed to provide security. It is because they hate the puppet government, and blame it and America for the war and chaos, but are afraid for their lives if they are caught publicly saying so. So they protest by stating what is safe.
 

maxcok

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I hope Egypt spirals into bloody revolution French style, and emerges with an example of the world's most progressive society... French style.
I imagine most Egyptians would be rather unhappy if it came to that. After listening to many of the street protestors being interviewed, I really don't get the sense that what they want is a bloody revolution.

I imagine most Egyptians would be happy if you stayed the hell away from their protests.
 

B_New End

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I imagine most Egyptians would be rather unhappy if it came to that. After listening to many of the street protestors being interviewed, I really don't get the sense that what they want is a bloody revolution.

I imagine most Egyptians would be happy if you stayed the hell away from their protests.

What they want will not come without bloodshed. Right now it is looking to be a bourgeoisie transfer of power, that will leave the masses in the exact same position, except with new masters.

And it has already been bloody, 300 protesters killed so far.
 
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SilverTrain

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B_New End

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Is that sound I hear, you licking your lips?

No, its me saying i told you so.

Prepare to hear it again, and again, and again, and again in the next 2 or 3 years.

Keep holding on to your delusions that your little cozy, western violence and propaganda dominated world and consumerist lifestyle will progress in peace, and that meaningful human progression will come from you picking media darlings called politician that continue to trick the masses into smaller and smaller pens, all the while whistling aint freedom grand.

In the real world, billions have been suffering for decades. Time to pay the piper, America. (be nice to see Israel get the shit kicked out of it too for being such a fucking asshole)
 

B_VinylBoy

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Is that sound I hear, you licking your lips?

It's really, really telling when someone is actually getting wet over the idea of massive bloodshed during a revolution. Or at least pretending to be so moist. That stuff concerns me more than the people who are trying to find a reasonable way to fight for their rights. The fact that 300 people have already died during this crisis in Egypt is bad enough. And as much as we would like to see this country come to a speedy resolution, nobody should be cheering on the idea of violence in the process. That should always be the very last resort.