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Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by nakedwally, Oct 11, 2007.
Criticize homosexuality, go to jail
The link labeled "Alan Keyes" at the top of this page didn't do much to enhance its credibility.
That said, if any of this is true, sounds pretty dumb. I doubt they'd ever make it stick that a pastor incited someone to bad behavior by preaching about homosexuality being a sin. At least it wouldn't in the USA. Not sure about the legal precedents in the UK.
Hate Crime Legislation
It's considered thought crime whatever you think you go to jail... something like that I dunno
That's fucking ridiculous. Terrorists can run around our country enforcing their radical beliefs of destroying the west, yet the CHURCH can't openly oppose homosexuality.
I couldn't agree more.
Wally, you do us an injustice by posting that. Some of our dimwits on this site will see the headline, and go into a frenzy. Others, somewhat less easily led (but still sheeple) will actually read the article and believe it. It's propaganda.
In Canada we have federal hate crimes. Hate groups are illegal in Canada (we don't have a first ammendment) which begs the question: Could it be that the Church itself, particularly some denominations, is a hate group which should be outlawed?
I don't want to be sensational with this question, but I'd hate to think that there is a double standard of ethics.
...while peddlers of bozo articles like this go unpunished. Shyeah, that's fair.
Extremly good point, what's the definition of a hate crime? Does the church fall under that category? I'd like to personally think it isn't, but some denominations do sometimes cross the line.
An issue here is that for many of those of the Judeo- Christian and to some degree the Islamic faith, the bible ,Torah, or Koran are seen as the inerrant word of God. Within those books are certain passages which frown upon homosexuality. But they also frown upon sex outside of marriage ,incest, lying , cheating, stealing, gossiping, pride, laziness,etc.
But there is. Nice work highlighting that point.
Another great point. It's an interesting quirk of human nature that we can forgive those things we do ourselves but condemn that which we consider ourselves innocent of. I dated a guy who broke nearly every commandment but knew his sins would be forgiven, yet would tell me with conviction I was going to hell for taking the lord's name in vain (the only thing he didn't do).
People are put in jail for all sorts of innocuous things. I don't see how this is any worse than being jailed for protesting the war or smoking pot.
frizzle, that's a knee-jerk reaction - precisely what the author of the article wanted out of you.
If you consider the source, you would realize that the author is a liar. The legislation he "discusses" would do very little of what he claims it would do. It would NOT criminalize freedom to voice an opinion; it would criminalize incitement to violence. In other words, a preacher would be free to say "we consider homosexuality to be wrong," but he would not be free to say "we should beat up homosexuals."
I find it especially interesting that people like the author of that article squeal about oppression, but out of that very same squealing mouth, they don't want anyone with whom they disagree to have any freedom of expression.
Yes, the poor christian fundamentalists are so terribly oppressed - that's why there are almost no churches left in the western hemisphere, and why nearly all christians are rotting in jail for their beliefs (sarcasm), while a homosexual has NEVER ever been arrested or beaten or killed for simply being homosexual (sarcasm again.)
It wouldn't surprise me if this was real, there's enough political correctness in this country to make your hair stand on ends. All this does is create speical rules for one miniority over another and it's time the government stood on it's own two feet instead of hiding behind a wall of fear and unpopularity.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "special rules." Can you be more specific? Do you mean the rule that you can't encourage people to beat up homosexuals? It may be different in your country, but in mine, homosexuals do NOT receive many of the protections that others do. I would be more than happy with THE SAME protections. Is that unreasonable?
I can't speak for Canada or elsewhere but in the US, groups can't be outlawed for hate speech. They are supposed to lose their tax exempt status as churches if they cross the line between religious worship and politics.
Amen! There are passages in these text that allude to these behaviors being deemed inappropriate and ethical but does that make people any less than loving creatures created by a higher power who deserve, by devine right, protection, tolerance, inclusion and love from humanity? I thought God was the image of love?
I am a converted Christian - not by choice but through family conversion at a young age. So is my wife. What really pisses me off is seeing these fundamentalist Christians who convict these "less than perfect" people based on their orientation, etc. to hell or infact condemn them to a life of torment. If we want to be PC and literally take these text for their literal meanings, I think most of humanity is going to end up in hell as neighbors. Who among us, truly, lives this perfect life where sin does not abound? Please!!! Wasn't it Paul who said I am crucified with Christ daily? Hell, sometimes I want to nail this hypocrits to a tree for their own perversions. Yet, I digress.
I suppose I get tired of hearing all this rubbish about right/wrong/morality/etc. Being an Indian, I was raised that we all have a conscious. That conscious directs us on how we are to live our lives. No one can judge nor can one truly question what our personal conscious dictates. To do so is an invasion of my right to liberty and life.
Put it this way, there SHOULD NOT be a rule that says "You cannot encourage or participate in violence against homosexuals.".
There SHOULD be a rule that says "You cannot encourage of or participate in violence against anyone."
If you single groups out now, it'll be a downhill slope from there.
Wow, some very interesting opinions on the subject, That being said what did I start oh boy!!
Of course the "Church" has the right to critisize homosexuality, just as we homosexuals have a right to critisize the "Church" for its blatant homophobia, slander, and inability to face reality.
Just as the poster for the Folsom Street Fair that was a mock up of da Vinci's "Last Supper"; it was their constitutional right to design and publicize that poster pace Concerned Women for America (I thought it was rather cleaver myself, and I'm a gay Christian). Furthermore, most people didn't bother to go to the Street Fair's website and read the story behind the poster and the future of other Street Fair posters (sorry to go off on a tangent, but this issue really fries my nuts).
I wonder if we just learned to LISTEN to each other, rather than spouting off at the mouth about things that we don't understand or are afraid of, maybe we'd have a more peaceful world.
And, speaking as a Biblical scholar, I dare anyone reading this thread to use the Bible as a weapon against me and my gay brothers and lesbian sisters, and bi guys and gals...any takers?
Okay, maybe that last comment was a bit incendiary, but I think you get my point.
And btw, why haven't you emailed me for a copy of the review I was going to send you? Put your money where your mouth is, Frizzle. Peace,