Cuomo vs. Obama - Leadership

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_VinylBoy, Jun 26, 2011.

  1. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    With the passing of same sex legislation in New York, some people are questioning whether or not Andrew Cuomo's leadership style is better than Barack Obama.

    Does Andrew Cuomo’s Leadership Style Put Barack Obama’s to Shame? | The Moderate Voice

    I have my thoughts, but I'll refrain for now until I read others. Let the discussion begin.

    And please, let's not make this a pointless "I Hate Obama", "I Hate Cuomo" or "I Hate Liberals" thread. Nobody cares anymore about who you personally like or who you hate.
     
  2. Industrialsize

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    Remember, Cuomo was elected in an overwhelmingly Democratic State. The President was elected in a 40%R/40%D/20%I country. Their styles of governing have to be different.
     
  3. TomCat84

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    Still, Obama would have immediately taken gay marriage off the table and started with domestic partnerships, and would have negotiated down from there- much like how the health reform debate progressed.
     
  4. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    But Obama was never officially for same sex marriage. He's always voiced support for some form of domestic partnership. I think Indy is on the same wavelength I am with this story. Given the citizens and government bodies under Cuomo and Obama, I'm not sure if Obama was more forceful he would have better results.
     
  5. Bbucko

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    Their leadership styles could not be more different.

    Cuomo leads with a passion and strength of conviction that Obama (for all his positives) either lacks or refuses to show. This cold-blooded pragmatism is easily viewed as disinterest, which infuriates Dems and lulls Repubs into thinking that we have a doormat for a president.

    Yet, he's steered through a repeal of DADT and the travel ban on people living with HIV/AIDS (neither of which would have been conceivable under a GOP president. His efforts at HCR, though hardly perfect, are in fact the law of the land. Bear in mind that this accomplishment had eluded every president since Eisenhower, yet he did it, even when his Dem majority was heavily populated with some mighty red Blue Dogs (for whom the public option would simply never happen: period) as well as an immovable Repub minority which obstructed every step and demonized him personally to a degree unparalleled in my adult experience.*

    Albany =/= Washington: not even a little bit. Comparing the two is like comparing Kim Kardashian and Susan Boyle. Cuomo is a liberal governing a (mostly) liberal state; Obama is president of a deeply polarized country, large minorities of which thinks he's a cross between an inept community organizer and the Antichrist.

    All things considered, Obama's accomplishments are nearly miraculous when you consider the poisonous environment in which they were realized.

    *These three examples are by no means an exhaustive list of accomplishments, just the first three to pop into my head on my way out the door to work-Bb
     
  6. TomCat84

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  7. cruztbone

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    industrialsize is correct. and by the way, the president's staff was in NY for the fundraiser last thursday pressuring members of the state legislature to vote for same sex marriage. the president and the governor have different roles to play. New york state is not the US. neither is CA the US, where i live. of course they are different, partly because of different constituencies. vinylboy, you need to political science 1 at your nearby community college. that will help you understand why governors and presidents have different roles to play depending on which legislative branch is to be persuaded, state or national.
     
  8. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Check yourself, Tom... this is not a thread for you to be throwing stupid accusations and labels at people. I've gone through many lengths to try and refrain from my usual confrontational responses, and I will not accept anyone throwing labels at me. I don't care if you're on the right OR on the left. :rolleyes:

    So you found one link that finds something I said to be partially in error. So fuckin' what? I didn't go by what Obama said 15 years ago... I went by what he's been saying since he's been president. Furthermore, that does not make me an "apologist" nor does it make you opinions of him or me anymore factual. Just because I don't always agree or critique Obama in the same way you do does not mean that I'm somehow always trying to make excuses for the man.

    Despite his not-so-perfect record on political matters we still don't have a single person in the political arena that can do better than him for 2012. Perhaps that will shed some light as to why I speak positively about Obama on this board. Know of anyone who is actually running for President in 2012 who can defeat Obama AND do a better job, and not some person whom you would mindlessly speculate over would be better IF they ran? Then by all means... present the candidate, speak your case and do it in a different thread. Otherwise, spare me your continued bantering about how you're disappointed in him. We get it. You don't need to say it a million more times either.

    And I'm only stating this once.
     
    #8 B_VinylBoy, Jun 26, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2011
  9. TomCat84

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    VB, your normal brave online threats are of no concern to me. And you weren't just partially in error. You were flat out wrong. You said that he was NEVER for same sex marriage. My link says he was. So you're wrong. Admit it, and spare me your usual temper tantrum.
     
  10. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    There's no threat here. We can disagree on various things, however, I will not accept you trying to label me in any shape or form. Period.

    So one link from a Politico opinion piece makes my entire argument wrong? You should know better than that, Tom. First off, the article you sourced (and many others online when searching Google) states that Obama was filling out a questionnaire and not making some form of official, political statement. I don't find anything stated in a silly survey as doctrine. I go by a politician's actions and voting record more than their words. But beyond all of this, the issue I have with you has nothing to do with whether or not I was right or wrong. This is about your unnecessary need to start throwing names around and making what was a good thread into a mess. I already stated that I was in error beforehand and I will not repeat myself. And it came off scathing since you decided in the process to call me a name. So sorry if you're not getting the acknowledgement you seek for finding something I said to be wrong, but I'm not putting up with the bullshit from you or anyone else anymore. So let's get back on topic, or else I'll just report your posts and get the mods involved. Period.
     
  11. TomCat84

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    BTW, you never said you were in error. You said partially in error. You cant even bring yourself to admit that you were wrong
     
  12. B_RedDude

    B_RedDude New Member

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    I don't have a problem at all if the president doesn't want to publicly declare his support of same-sex marriage before November 6, 2012. This is not an issue that is worth risking his reelection over. This country is still in very sorry shape and such an issue must not be allowed to hijack the presidential election.

    Besides, if a Republican gets elected, then where will the gay community be? (Never forget those Supreme Court appointments) Where will all citizens be, for that matter? Hell, where will we all be, even if the president IS reelected?

    I counsel patience and political prudence.

    For the first time it's lately really hit home with me that the U.S. is simply NOT a progressive country. We had a small window in 1964-65 that might be called progressive, but that's about it in the last 40 years. Given all of this, however, I often feel that the president needs to grow a pair.
     
    #12 B_RedDude, Jun 27, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2011
  13. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Because I'm not completely wrong. Whether or not you want to hold what someone says on an irrelevant survey as a firm, political declaration is an issue that will differ from person to person. Not only that, it has NOTHING to do with this thread. I don't find it relevant to his current stance on gay issues and you do. That's where we disagree and it will be perpetually since I've grown sick and tired of you.

    I personally want to thank you for making some infantile fight over something a politician filled in on a questionnaire 15 years ago more important than the subject matter. But now, it's time for those who aren't looking for cheap points to try and position oneself over another person to speak. Your posts have been reported and you're now on my ignore list. Beat it!
     
    #13 B_VinylBoy, Jun 27, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2011
  14. Industrialsize

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    Tomcat and vinylboy, It's official, your tete a tete in this thread has become a big bore.
     
  15. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Could you just close this thread then? I didn't mean for this thread to go this way, alas, it's becoming more common for people to just mindlessly attack me anytime I open my mouth around here. From members of the hyper-left who think I'm not liberal enough, to the "independents" and the hyper-right who think I'm too extreme... they've all come to the conclusion that I'm the problem for whatever stupid, ideological reason they bestow. And I'm really fuckin' sick of being the scapegoat for other people's societal and political fears.
     
  16. Kotchanski

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    Vinyl, we've spoken from time to time via PM and though not often, and usually as a result of one or other of us misunderstanding the others intentions, I believe it has been often enough for you not to consider me as one of those "out to get you" so to speak...

    I mean this with absolutely no malice, and speak as someone who has frequently been on the receiving side of this advice, but: If so many people are taking issue with you, from all sides of the various fences, could it not in some cases at least, be down to your own tone within your posts? Maybe some personal reflection on how your posts may be being read by others is in order. I know this is something I've had to do many times and adjust accordingly, because when an issue is of importance to me, it is more important that my point be made in such a way that it is understood correctly, than it is for me to stick to my guns and continue banging my head against walls that just can't see past my mannerisms...
     
  17. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Aconitum - I've gone through many lengths to tone down the vitriol in my responses. You can see that with every thread I've created over the last few months. In this particular thread I address Tom with a simple question with no nastiness implied, which prompted mud slinging character terms like "apologist". In another thread about drug testing the poor, I made a general comment that focuses on the law in question and it prompted the OP to imply that I, my friends and the people I socialized with were "druggie liberals". The list goes on and on. When does this crap ever stop?

    There's only so much I can do with my posts to make them as general and objective as possible. I've even gone to the lengths of not using the usual political buzzwords when making responses to not unfairly isolate people. What else can one do at this point? There's no sense in me trying to play nice when just about everyone else is still just as bitter, just as angry and just as nasty as before (if not worse).
     
  18. B_RedDude

    B_RedDude New Member

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    Advice: Develop a thicker skin, dude. Don't take things so personally, even when they have an edge. I think its your prickliness more than anything that might get you into trouble.

     
  19. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Not for anything, but it was my thick skin that got me the "reputation" I have around here with so many people. The only reason why I tried to tone things down was because I was on the brink of being banned. But I would much rather talk about your last post because I tend to agree with you.

    This is precisely what motivates me as we go towards the next election. It's obvious that we didn't elect the perfect president. Obama has been weak on a number of issues and communication was not one of his strong points during the first half of his campaign. But when it comes to issues surrounding gay rights on a federal level, the real options we had for presidential candidates in 2008, and the current toxic climate of politics, it's clear that we were better off having a man in office who is seemingly for civil unions and undecided about gay marriage than the alternative. DADT wouldn't have been repealed if McCain/Palin was in office. Since winning the house in 2010, the GOP have done more to prevent women to have abortions in certain states than present job creation legislation. Obama may not be the best, but we could be doing a lot worse right now. I also tend to believe that most presidents refrain from passing more radical reforms till their second term (if they get it) since they don't have to worry about the threat of being a one-term president. This could be one of the reasons why Obama is playing the center and pushing so hard for bipartisanship (much to the chagrin of more progressive types).

    As for Cuomo? Indy and BBucko pretty much nailed what I thought on the head. It's hard to compare the actions of both men due to the fact one governs a state that is quite liberal where as the other sees over a country that is politically and ideologically split with very little overlap. Even if Cuomo was the president right now, I'm sure he would have a lot of the same problems Obama is experiencing right now trying to get any piece of legislation passed.
     
    #19 B_VinylBoy, Jun 27, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2011
  20. Bbucko

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    I actually believe that Cuomo would have an even harder time of it than BHO. Though is enemies all want to paint our current president as some fire-breathing, Kenyan socialist, the very fact that TC84 (and many others here and elsewhere) think of him as a sell-out proves he's not.

    Cuomo, OTOH, is a real-life, home-grown progressive who inherited his father's passion (if not much of his rhetorical skills). Obama's the enemy they never saw coming, whereas Cuomo is a poster-boy for progressive social activism, just as Perry and Bachmann are for reactionaries and Teabaggers. Were he to run in 2016, expect to see all the usual barbs and arrows launched his way with none of the convoluted verbiage and dog-whistle politics Obama gets.

    It is, of course, impossible to predict what Congress and the Senate will look like that far into the future: it all depends on the economy, I think.
     
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