Customs ship to shadow Japanese whalers (+ Whale Killing Scum)

Elmer Gantry

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Like this

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Gillette

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RE: I would like them to stop hunting whales but I'm conflicted about the "pressure" being put upon them. How many land mammals does USA slaughter every day? And I eat some of those dead mammals; and so I have a major internal conflict going on.

the California surfer who was saved from death by a shark,

I think you mean saved from a shark by dolphins.

RE: Giving in to U.S. pressure and worldwide criticism,

You're not kidding about irony of the US or any other highly militarized govenment pointing fingers.

washingtonpost.com: Whale Stranding in N.C. Followed Navy Sonar Use

CNN - Low-frequency sonar raises whale advocates' hackles - June 30, 1999

Navy sued over sonar testing off Hawaii - Environment - MSNBC.com


"Early in 2001, PEER intercepted Department of Defense "Pre-Decision Working Papers" dated December 2000. The paper outlined specific provisions or interpretations of environmental laws it alleged encroach on military training and readiness in the marine environment. The memo also cited public review processes and disclosure regarding environmental concerns as delaying training.
Complying with provisions of the Marine Mammal Protection Act, according to the memo, might hinder or delay deployment of the Navy’s LFA Sonar operations.
In July 2002, the Bush administration granted the Navy an exemption from the MMPA to "take" or harass endangered species, including whales, when deploying LFA Sonar to detect foreign submarines."

"In March 2000 in the Bahamas, 16 whales beached within range of the Navy’s use of midrange frequency sonar," he said.
In December 2001, Earth Island Institute filed a Freedom of Information Act request, asking that the National Marine Fisheries Service release the whales’ autopsy results. Following that request, NMFS issued a report citing the Navy’s use of midrange frequency sonar as the most plausible cause of the whales’ deaths.
The whales that died suffered bleeding of the ears and ear channels, injuries consistent with an acoustically induced trauma that caused them to strand. No other acoustic sources in the vicinity could have caused the whales’ injuries, according to the report.
"But the LFA Sonar is more powerful and has a longer range than the midrange frequency sonar that killed those whales," Palmer said. "We’re concerned it could kill even more marine mammals."

source
 

B_Nick4444

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good point ... I would also add the Clinton administration's acquiescence to the Makah ... and, in general, expanding trade with China, which enabled WalMart and US citizens in general to finance the construction of the chinese war machine, necessitating the expansion and design of the referenced sonar programs ... trade with japan, which country is using the proceeds of its international trade to buy votes at IWC (anticipating a question, no if its obviously japanese I will not buy it; the problem is that globalism makes it difficult not to participate. Example, few years ago, I bought a Hamilton watch, supposedly an American brand, except for the movement, advertised as Swiss-made. Turns out part of the casing was nipponese), etc, etc ...
 

B_Nick4444

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I might add, the effects of globalism transferring more wealth to asia, has also led to the resurrection of the clubbing of baby seals in Canada ... a scene I would expect to see in Africa or asia ... globalism is indeed making the world a more brutish place.
 

B_Swimming Lad

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I fuckng hate the Japanese!!

Although they agreed to stop the hunt for Hump-backs, thanks largly to the Austrailians, they have now planned to kill just under a thousand others. 935 Minky's and 50 Fin Whales.

Thoughts?
 

Axcess

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I fuckng hate the Japanese!!

Although they agreed to stop the hunt for Hump-backs, thanks largly to the Austrailians, they have now planned to kill just under a thousand others. 935 Minky's and 50 Fin Whales.

Thoughts?
This is one of the examples of why I think humans should disappear from the planet. We are destroying life in this planet.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Humans are the only animals that kill for pleasure.:mad::mad::mad:
 
D

deleted194072

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Hear hear! Whale hunting for "scientific research" my eye. Nevermind the dolphins they also hunt. At least I'm glad organisations like Greenpeace help to raise people's awareness about what's going on.

If it were up to me, I'd send a submarine, and a few whaling ships would just "disappear". Give the whalers the same chance that they give the whales. The international community is overwhelmingly opposed to whale hunting, save for a few holdouts like Japan. I think it's time the world sent a clear message, to let countries like Japan know that it's NOT okay to continue with whaling, for whatever purpose. It doesn't matter if it's your tradition to hunt whales, all traditions aren't "right", and times have changed.

Down with whaling!
 
D

deleted194072

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1) There's already a thread on this.

2) "I fucking hate the Japanese" is way out of line.

Guy-jin, it may be out of line, but then so is whaling. After so many years places like Japan have simply refused to acknowledge that times have changed. I do grant that many Japanese are also opposed to whaling, but the hunt goes on...
 

B_Nick4444

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how about: "I hate the cultural value matrix that defines the japanese" The set of values that leads them to steal technology, violate all trade laws, violate international treaties regarding fishing quotas; bayonet pregnant chinese and korean women, rip the fetuses out by that same bayonet, toss the fetuses into boiling water; applaud the beheading of thousands of chinese, stack the severed heads in multi-layered rows and then publish those photos in japanese newspapers where the perpetrators were applauded as national heroes, without a single voice of opposition by the japanese public; the cannibalism of Allied soldiers and prisoners of war; the slaughter of dolphins, whales and porpoises?

Can that hatred be described as ignorant?
 

Guy-jin

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Guy-jin, it may be out of line, but then so is whaling. After so many years places like Japan have simply refused to acknowledge that times have changed. I do grant that many Japanese are also opposed to whaling, but the hunt goes on...

Which is why it's way out of line to generalize the entire Japanese populace as being whale-hunting murderers worthy of derision.

We're capable of discussing how unfortunate it is of their government to allow whaling in this day and age without making vast, hateful generalizations about the people as a whole.

Edit: Just want to add, I'm with you on the message in your post, PM. I'm completely in favor of action to prevent countries that are still allowing whaling on endangered species from doing so from countries that currently ban it.

how about: "I hate the cultural value matrix that defines the japanese" The set of values that leads them to steal technology, violate all trade laws, violate international treaties regarding fishing quotas; bayonet pregnant chinese and korean women, rip the fetuses out by that same bayonet, toss the fetuses into boiling water; applaud the beheading of thousands of chinese, stack the severed heads in multi-layered rows and then publish those photos in japanese newspapers where the perpetrators were applauded as national heroes, without a single voice of opposition by the japanese public; the cannibalism of Allied soldiers and prisoners of war; the slaughter of dolphins, whales and porpoises?

Can that hatred be described as ignorant?

When you put it that way? Absolutely.
 

Guy-jin

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Sorry you FEEL that way ... given the FACTS, Swimming Lad is justified, and there is nothing inappropriate about it.

Hate is never justified.

And the things you posted are, again, generalizations. Or do you actually think literally every Japanese person committed those acts? Are you so ignorant that you don't realize the youth of Japan by and large is in favor of an official apology to Korea and China for World War II?

Or, how about I turn it around on you. What you just said equates to saying that all Americans are out there murdering innocent Iraqis, and therefore it's all right to hate them.

Use your head.
 

B_Nick4444

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Read the post -- Values define our outlooks and actions ... each one of us incorporates a world-view and set of values, which then determine our actions ... to state otherwise is to engage in neo-sophistry and nihilism, and the sort of unreality that characterizes political correctness, not reality ... a criminal commits a crime because he is a criminal ... japanese supermarkets sell dolphin meat and japanese restaurants serve whale meat ... a whale beaches on a japanese beach, and the locals carve him up ... given the chance, as they were in WWII, they commit cannibalism ... japanese values, character
 

B_Swimming Lad

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Or, how about I turn it around on you. What you just said equates to saying that all Americans are out there murdering innocent Iraqis, and therefore it's all right to hate them.

Use your head.

Entirly different situation. A ridiculous comparison. America did what it has done for the Iraqui's benefit. Iraqui's are not endangered and you are not eating them!
 

Guy-jin

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Entirly different situation. A ridiculous comparison. America did what it has done for the Iraqui's benefit. Iraqui's are not endangered and you are not eating them!

The comparison wasn't between whaling and Iraq, it was between World War II and Iraq, since Nick brought that up. Consider that the populace of Japan had been brainwashed to think that bringing the Emperor to the rest of Asia was fulfilling a destiny that would benefit all of East Asia. And now consider that the populace of America was told getting rid of Saddam was to bring Democracy to the Middle East, and therefore would lead to benefiting the entire Middle East by forcing Westernization on them. That make it a little less "ridiculous" to you?

Read the post -- Values define our outlooks and actions ... each one of us incorporates a world-view and set of values, which then determine our actions ... to state otherwise is to engage in neo-sophistry and nihilism, and the sort of unreality that characterizes political correctness, not reality ... a criminal commits a crime because he is a criminal ... japanese supermarkets sell dolphin meat and japanese restaurants serve whale meat ... a whale beaches on a japanese beach, and the locals carve him up ... given the chance, as they were in WWII, they commit cannibalism ... japanese values, character

I read your post. You want me to dissect everything you said and dismantle it piece by piece? Fine.

The set of values that leads them to steal technology,
Every country does this. Do you hate everyone as a result?

violate all trade laws,
All trade laws. All. Right. I'm not going to waste my time. Look it up yourself.

violate international treaties regarding fishing quotas;
And somehow the rest of the world is incapable of stopping it.

Because the Japanese have this gigantic standing military force that could do anything about it if they did. Oh no, wait. The American military is responsible for acting as Japan's standing military force. The Japanese Self Defense Force is forbidden from leaving the Japanese homeland without permission.

Point being: If the rest of the world were so against it, they could stop it.

More to the point, it's still a generalization. As if every Japanese person is in favor of overfishing. Do you honestly believe that?


bayonet pregnant chinese and korean women, rip the fetuses out by that same bayonet, toss the fetuses into boiling water; applaud the beheading of thousands of chinese, stack the severed heads in multi-layered rows and then publish those photos in japanese newspapers where the perpetrators were applauded as national heroes, without a single voice of opposition by the japanese public; the cannibalism of Allied soldiers and prisoners of war;
Generalizations with shades of ignorance.

Some
Japanese soldiers did horrible, horrible things in World War II. You find it's justified to hate all Japanese as a result? Do you hate all Germans? How about all Russians because of what Stalin's regime did? How about all Americans because of some of the atrocities they've committed in various wars?

If you were less ignorant, you'd know that there were voices of opposition by the Japanese public that were swiftly squelched by the fascists that ran their government. You'd also know about the massive brain washing programs that were rampant in the country, deifying the Emperor and telling the populace that the Japanese government and military were saving the rest of Asia by taking it back (as they had been told it was rightfully theirs).

You'd also know that the cannibalism wasn't restricted to American POWs. They were eating each other at the end in some of those places. Your hatred here is clearly shaded by bigotry and ignorance. These are the facts. Actually take the time to learn them, then draw a conclusion.

Moreover, the issues you're basing a modern hatred for a people on are the acts of some of those people seventy years ago. Do you hate all white Americans because some of them owned slave whom they whipped mercilessly, raped and murdered? Do you hate all Americans because of the mass slaughter of the Native Americans?

Honestly, you can't have it both ways. If you're going to base a hatred of an entire people on something bad they did in the past, you have to do it for everyone, and you're going to end up hating everyone.


the slaughter of dolphins, whales and porpoises?
And again: Not all Japanese are in favor of that. Saying you hate them as a whole for it is, drum-roll please, ignorance.

Can that hatred be described as ignorant?
I hope what I just said demonstrates more intricately why that hatred is indeed seated in ignorance.
 

B_Swimming Lad

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The comparison wasn't between whaling and Iraq, it was between World War II and Iraq, since Nick brought that up. Consider that the populace of Japan had been brainwashed to think that bringing the Emperor to the rest of Asia was fulfilling a destiny that would benefit all of East Asia. And now consider that the populace of America was told getting rid of Saddam was to bring Democracy to the Middle East, and therefore would lead to benefiting the entire Middle East by forcing Westernization on them. That make it a little less "ridiculous" to you?

Much. But try being less fukin patronising next time asshole.
 

rob_just_rob

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Whaling is pretty much indefensible as a practice nowadays, other than for a very few tribes for whom whaling is a traditional practice (I don't have a huge problem with indigenous peoples hunting whales in canoes with spears... that's a pretty fair fight).

It is interesting how much attention is given to the whaling industry, when juxtaposed against the innocent people being killed in Iraq, Darfur, Zimbabwe, etc. Yes, I know humans aren't endangered, but they're still humans. And people will devote an inordinate amount of attention to stories of abused pets, which aren't endangered species either.

I'm not saying the Japanese aren't assholes, but at least they haven't done anything genocidal to humans in almost 65 years.