Customs ship to shadow Japanese whalers (+ Whale Killing Scum)

[Guy-jin]

there we go again ...

Honestly, you're extremely irritating. I'm very well educated about modern and 20th century Japanese culture, and arguing with you is like arguing with a child about it. Present something rational or I'm done with you.

 

[B_Nick4444]

you might want tor review the the point of the thread -- whaling! who is doing it? the japanese! who is eating the whale & dolphin meat? the japanese!

they themselves claim it as part of their national character ... a character they have to hide from their younger generations by selectively excluding aspects of their history (what other nation has to do that?)

Since you really have nothing to contribute, I wouldn't mind if you do disengage

 

[Guy-jin]

That's actually not the argument.

The argument is that hating an entire populace of people because their government has a policy you don't agree with is wrong and ignorant.

You've somehow mutated a barbaric policy stance into a statement about the entire culture of a people and are using that to say that they, as a people, are worthy of hatred.

That is out of line. It doesn't even make sense.

What about that aren't you understanding?

 

[B_Nick4444]

sorry, not a policy enunciated from on high to an enlightened people unwilling to do the government's bidding ... japanese are routinely buying and eating cetacean meat, and claiming it as their culture... will do it on their own, as the dolphin kills and the butchering of beached whales demonstrates ... again, just saying something is so, doesn't make it so ... I'm not the one who said anything about hate ... but what is there to approve of or accept? on what basis? californian political correctness?

Again, against the objective facts ...

 

[Gillette]

you might want tor review the the point of the thread -- whaling! who is doing it? the japanese! who is eating the whale & dolphin meat? the japanese!

they themselves claim it as part of their national character ... a character they have to hide from their younger generations by selectively excluding aspects of their history (what other nation has to do that?)

By your own reasoning the younger generation aren't aware of, hence, cannot share this 'character' you speak of, thus, there is no reason for you to hate them. Do you hate four year old Japanese children because of Japanese whaling?

Are you getting a clearer idea yet of how irrational you are being?

 

[B_Nick4444]

no ... the problem is that by hiding from their history, they hide from examination the set of values and mind-set that led to the actions described. hence, the same mind-set and values get perpetuated ... I will grant you this, there is some dissent as to whether or not, they should be censoring their history texts, as they have been doing, but currently, the conservatives have been winning out, as the censoring is place ... you neglect to also take into account, that children are now being cetacean meat as part of the effort to create the demand for it, and they are accepting it ... the facts remain in place: japanese are killing and eating cetaceans, and they claim it as their cultural right ... again, objective facts

 

[Gillette]

no ... the problem is that by hiding from their history, they hide from examination the set of values and mind-set that led to the actions described. hence, the same mind-set and values get perpetuated ... I will grant you this, there is some dissent as to whether or not, they should be censoring their history texts, as they have been doing, but currently, the conservatives have been winning out, as the censoring is place ... you neglect to also take into account, that children are now being cetacean meat as part of the effort to create the demand for it, and they are accepting it ... the facts remain in place: japanese are killing and eating cetaceans, and they claim it as their cultural right ... again, objective facts

Children being cetacean meat? Is this another cannabalism reference?

There is a significant difference between having your history hidden from you and hiding from it. You can't hide from something you aren't even aware of.

If you think that every last person in Japan insists on eating whalemeat you are blindly delusional. Kids are barely aware of what they are eating, few adults know what's really in a hotdog and I know one adult who only think tuna comes in cans! If you are truly suggesting that children be held accountable for whaling because their parents choose to feed it to them then you are a complete fucking moron.

 

[B_Nick4444]

Children being cetacean meat? Is this another cannabalism reference?

There is a significant difference between having your history hidden from you and hiding from it. You can't hide from something you aren't even aware of.

If you think that every last person in Japan insists on eating whalemeat you are blindly delusional. Kids are barely aware of what they are eating, few adults know what's really in a hotdog and I know one adult who only think tuna comes in cans! If you are truly suggesting that children be held accountable for whaling because their parents choose to feed it to them then you are a complete fucking moron.

sorry .. should read children eating cetacean meat ... from what I've seen of people is that once they develop an appetite for something, they will keep at it ... people who have been warned to stay away from certain foods because of their health condition, continue to eat them ... adults continue to choose foods and snacks because of taste, not for nutrition, in spite of what those foods will do ... you are correct, they will select what to eat without thinkig of the moral implications... children grow up emulating the behaviours they are taught, continuing to make their selections based on their acquired appetites ... are you suggesting that adults, because they acquired these habits in childhood cannot be held accountable? are you saying that adults cannot be held accountable for what they teach, or do not teach their children?

Nowhere in any of my comments is there the proposition that every last individual in japan is consuming whalemeat, nor is there significance that not everybody does --- the japanese are eating whalemeat, they kill thousands of cetaceans each year, driving some close to the point of extinction ... their children are being taught, as the lone scandinavian on this thread expressed, that there is no moral significance to the killing of cetaceans; they are indulging in behaviors that are predicated on that position, behaviors they will continue based on those acquired appetites.

Again, japanese are killing cetaceans, japanese are eating cetaceans, they themselves claim the killing of cetaceans as one of their defining cultural attributes ... japanese are using the proceeds of their international trade to buy votes at the IWC; some of that money is being used to resurrect whaling in banaa republics which hadn't done any in generations ... the japanese are intent on resurrecting commercial whaling ... I don't see how the fact that not each and every japanese are eating cetacean meat changes any of that.

 

[Gillette]

are you suggesting that adults, because they acquired these habits in childhood cannot be held accountable? are you saying that adults cannot be held accountable for what they teach, or do not teach their children?

My statement was pretty clear on what I meant. You can't hold children accountable for what their parents feed them. As for adults continuing acquired habits, I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree. Just as plenty of people fed meat as children have chosen to give up all meat I'm certain that there are plenty of Japanese adults who may have been fed whale meat at one time who have chosen never to eat it again of their own accord.

Nowhere in any of my comments is there the proposition that every last individual in japan is consuming whalemeat

It's in every word you say.

nor is there significance that not everybody does

There most certainly is. There are groups in the United States which claim that people of African origin are sub-human, this has been tradition for them since the slave days and they are teaching their children the same thing. I see in your profile that you are from Texas. Shall I presume that you are also a virulent racist based solely on the fact that you live in the U.S.?

--- the japanese are eating whalemeat

Correctly said this should read there are some Japanese eating whale meat. Note that the nationality should be capitalized.

they kill thousands of cetaceans each year

Hundreds. The quota was posted earlier.

driving some close to the point of extinction ...

No argument with this part, how refreshing.

their children are being taught, as the lone scandinavian on this thread expressed

You're placing the Scandinavian poster as an authority on Japanese culture? That hardly seems clever.

Again, japanese are killing cetaceans, japanese are eating cetaceans, they themselves claim the killing of cetaceans as one of their defining cultural attributes

Groups who depend on the practice continuing claim this. Just as big oil and big tobacco has clout here the whaling industry must have some there. It doesn't make it a national position.

I don't see how the fact that not each and every japanese are eating cetacean meat changes any of that.

You've demonstrated your lack of vision quite convincingly.

In fact, I'm convinced you're a moron.

 

[B_Nick4444]

(1) actually it is thousands of CETACEANS (the quota refers to the great whales; annually, they kill thousands of dolphins, porpoises, and small whales);

(2) The point on the scandinavian was he felt no moral angst at the killing of cetaceans; none would have been expected, again because that the norwegian CULTURAL perspective (and yes, there are scandinavians who do not approve of whaling); Again, this is a point on the CULTURE, the set of values that defines a people; and,

(3) The japanese government, and the ruling party, the LDP, espouse that as the national policy.

(4) Whether or not some individuals do not engage in the practice, that is the cultural perspective, that is the national policy, and as a result, thousands of cetaceans are being killed; countries that had not been doing are being by the japanese government to do so, as well.

 

[Gillette]

(1) actually it is thousands of CETACEANS (the quota refers to the great whales; annually, they kill thousands of dolphins, porpoises, and small whales);

I'll concede you that point.

(2) The point on the scandinavian was he felt no moral angst at the killing of cetaceans; none would have been expected, again because that the norwegian CULTURAL perspective (and yes, there are scandinavians who do not approve of whaling); Again, this is a point on the CULTURE, the set of values that defines a people;

Again if you refuse to concede that some does not mean you can condemn all, you'll have to accept being hated as a racist for the mere association of others in your country.

(3) The japanese government, and the ruling party, the LDP, espouse that as the national policy.

I loathe GWB and his policies. I do not reflexively hate Americans. That would be stupid.

(4) Whether or not some individuals do not engage in the practice, that is the cultural perspective, that is the national policy, and as a result, thousands of cetaceans are being killed

That entitles you to hate the policy and policy makers but not the population of the country in it's entirety.

countries that had not been doing are being by the japanese government to do so, as well.

WTF does this even mean? Never mind. If you can't see the difference between policy and people you are an irredeemable tool.

Please remember to capitalize nationalities in future.

Ta.

 

[B_Nick4444]

sorry ... that should read that countries who had not been whaling, are being paid to initiate their own whaling programs ...

if the populace didn't buy and eat the whalemeat, they wouldn't be finding the industry profitable, and wouldn't be pursuing its expansion.

 

[B_Nick4444]

Again its the values and perceptions that determine a person's actions and define him. Shared perceptions, values and practices define a culture or nation.

Having said, have to take flight ... hope that concludes the direction of this thread.

 

[Gillette]

if the populace didn't buy and eat the whalemeat, they wouldn't be finding the industry profitable, and wouldn't be pursuing its expansion.

Swinging us right back to the fallacy of tarring all for the actions of some.

Argue with yourself for a while. I still have some consumerism to participate in.

 

[dreamer20]

why were they so easy to acquiesce to propaganda; the point I mentioned about their reportage again was to illustrate the national character --- no comparison could be made to Germany, as the Germans were not aware of what the Nazi bureaucracy was doing ...

The majority of Germans easily acquiesced to Hitler's propaganda and
were aware of what the Nazis were doing thus making a comparison to Japan's WWII atrocities valid IMO.

 

[Gillette]

Again its the values and perceptions that determine a person's actions and define him. Shared perceptions, values and practices define a culture or nation.

And when those perceptions, values and practices are not shared they can't define the nation.

Fuck you type fast. This quote wasn't there when I began my previous post.

 

[rob_just_rob]

Imagine if the Japanese were circumcising the whales and eating the foreskins. This thread would be 70 pages long by now.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

Imagine if the Japanese were circumcising the whales and eating the foreskins.

Wasn't there recently a thread about sushi? Whale foreskin would likely be considered a rare delicacy.

 

[SteveHd]

I see a double-standard.

If someone within the "anti-circ brigade" inserts circumcision into a general thread, they usually get skewered. I can picture Novice writing, "Oh for the love of God ...".

But this time ... silence. Unfortunately, I'm not surprised.