Cybersex is Cheating

Principessa

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Looking at Hustler or Playgirl is not cheating. Cybersex and camming are cheating even it's one-sided. It's the addition of a live person that makes the difference in my mind, as well as the hiding it from the significant other.
 

Drifterwood

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I have to agree. If you have to keep it a secret, then its wrong therefore a form of cheating.

Let me ask you Lee, if I may. You start a relationship with a new guy. It is developing nicely but you don't see each other apart from the weekends.

Before him, you may have tended to your sexual needs with an assortment of toys and fantasies, maybe involving other men. At what point do you ask him if he considers it cheating, if he does at all, and that you have an assortment of toys that you wish to keep using whilst you are not together? Do you ask him if it OK for you to fantasize about XYZ man whilst you pleasure yourself?

Serious bit: Basic rule - if your partner considers it cheating it is cheating.

I'm not sure about a new morality - what do you mean by that?

Certainly there are plenty of new ways of expressing sexuality and participating in fantasy and interacting sexually without physical contact. But I don't see how that changes the morality. Maybe I'm working from a different definition (?)

I really can't agree. Your partner may be wrong. As you went on to say, your partner may consider your talking to another man cheating, reading an erotic novel etc. Can you be responsible for and conscious of all your potential sexual reactions? I don't think so, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have any intention of being unfaithful.

I mean morality in terms of what people actually do. Morality really means the normal and accepted behaviour. Divorce, sex before marriage, single motherhood, were all once generally considered immoral, but not now by the majority. I think that the internet has just offered people a new avenue for sexual expression and they are embracing it because it is now available and they prefer it to porn mags, erotic novels or whatever was your thing.

Soon the majority of people will be having cybersex or cyber fantasy, therefore it will be moral and not judged as anything abnormal.

For humans, sex involves communication and intentionality. That requires imagination, thinking, emotional engagement, all kinds of "higher functions" and intentionality (since you have to assume that both meaning and value are also involved).

Cheating on an agreement involves a complex judgment about limits, obligations, compromises, consequences, implications, availability, freedom to engage and disengage, intentionality, responsibility and a billion other not very simple things.

You are right ledroit (you usually are :rolleyes:). But can a real relationship keep pace with this? Would you not spend all day discussing the source of your arousal? rather than just accepting that you are horny and want to fuck, rather than wondering whether the pool boy being around earlier in his tight cut offs had got your blood going?

Then people change in their views and there are so many new things that happen and are available. I think at best you can be certain about 80% of what a partner may think or have discussed, but there is always that grey area.

I like grey areas, I was always told that women needed their private space for fantasy. How many wives hide their toys from their husbands (especially if they are bigger :biggrin1:), how many husbands have a secret porn stash?

I think if you have an expectation that any relationship is going to be 100% of anything, then you are likely to be disappointed.
 

ManlyBanisters

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I really can't agree. Your partner may be wrong. As you went on to say, your partner may consider your talking to another man cheating, reading an erotic novel etc. Can you be responsible for and conscious of all your potential sexual reactions? I don't think so, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have any intention of being unfaithful.

I agree - your partner may well be wrong and, in that case, you need to either renogiate the contract ...or maybe the partner :rolleyes:

I would never want to be in a relationship with someone who considered me reading an erotic novel to be cheating. Equally I would not want to be in a relationship with someone who wanted to have casual encounters with other people. Like many things in relationships it is about agreeing what is acceptable before it becomes an issue. If you find yourself reacting sexually to something and you aren't sure if your partner would be OK with it or not then you need to stop and talk to your partner. If you find yourself reacting sexually to something and you know that your partner would be hurt by your behaviour but you still keep doing it, then you are cheating.

I mean morality in terms of what people actually do. Morality really means the normal and accepted behaviour. Divorce, sex before marriage, single motherhood, were all once generally considered immoral, but not now by the majority. I think that the internet has just offered people a new avenue for sexual expression and they are embracing it because it is now available and they prefer it to porn mags, erotic novels or whatever was your thing.

Soon the majority of people will be having cybersex or cyber fantasy, therefore it will be moral and not judged as anything abnormal.

OK - I get where you are coming from. Yes - I think that in the same way porn and sex toys have become far more acceptable forms of sexual expression so will the kind of sexual interaction people have online. I still think, however, that whether that is OK in parallel with a relationship is going to depend on the individuals involved. I suppose it is just another aspect of an 'open relationship' - some people will be OK with it and some won't. The social acceptability of it on a broader level is not the same thing as an individual having to accept his/her partner doing it. Like swinging - I'm perfectly OK with the idea that some couples enjoy swinging and I don't think they are at all immoral for doing it - I have yet to be in a relationship where I'd be comfortable doing it myself.
 

Osiris

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What about porn? That includes another person (kinda).

When watching a porno, the "story" and scenarios are already set. In camming or cybersex, you can dictate or ask for things to happen a certain way and it is exclusive to you.

Given our easy access modern society, many people tend to take their online trysts offline. So I would have to say if you have to hide it from your mate. it's cheating.
 

snoozan

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For some reason my husband had no problem with me telling stories to a guy online to give him some whack material, but I think if we had taken it to camming or if I was masturbating with him while I did it, he may have been quite annoyed. Cyber does nothing for me unless I'm in a relationship with the person in real life, so telling a dude a few stories that he could toss off to wasn't really a big deal to me or my relationship.

Every couple sets their own limits. It's all about being honest and open.
 

Drifterwood

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Like many things in relationships it is about agreeing what is acceptable before it becomes an issue.

I agree, but there is such a range of things, from the erotic novel to the full on swingers lifestyle.

If you find yourself reacting sexually to something and you aren't sure if your partner would be OK with it or not then you need to stop and talk to your partner. If you find yourself reacting sexually to something and you know that your partner would be hurt by your behaviour but you still keep doing it, then you are cheating.

The point though is not that they would be hurt by it, but whether you choose to let them know. And before everyone tells me that this means you have a rubbish relationship, I would say that I find it acceptable for someone to take a decision on someone else's behalf. Not because they are tryong to hide their guilt (though if the majority are doing it why should they feel guilty), but because their partner will have an irrational response to it. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater.



OK - I get where you are coming from. Yes - I think that in the same way porn and sex toys have become far more acceptable forms of sexual expression so will the kind of sexual interaction people have online. I still think, however, that whether that is OK in parallel with a relationship is going to depend on the individuals involved. I suppose it is just another aspect of an 'open relationship' - some people will be OK with it and some won't. The social acceptability of it on a broader level is not the same thing as an individual having to accept his/her partner doing it. Like swinging - I'm perfectly OK with the idea that some couples enjoy swinging and I don't think they are at all immoral for doing it - I have yet to be in a relationship where I'd be comfortable doing it myself.

Which is worse, your partner physically using a sex toy because it satisfies her more than her partner, or the same woman having a non physical contact with a guy in cyberspace who turns her on, but has no intention of meeting?

I'd rather the latter. At least when we are together we have a chance of sharing good sex and the other guy just amuses her in the meantime, whilst if I can't compete with the toy, wtf am I doing there? Yet toys are more acceptable than cyber??? I don't think so necessarily.

What individuals accept, evolves. Morality is not set in stone, even the Catholic Church changes its opinion. Cybersex seems to me to be a bridge between traditional pornography and full on human contact. Some find it acceptable now, some don't, many will change their opinion, but some won't. This is why I think we may see a new morality.
 

Drifterwood

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but I think if we had taken it to camming or if I was masturbating with him while I did it, he may have been quite annoyed.

But you didn't discuss the possibility. Though clearly in your situation because you had no intention to do it anyway. We do make assumptions though about our partner's reactions.

Cyber does nothing for me unless I'm in a relationship with the person in real life, so telling a dude a few stories that he could toss off to wasn't really a big deal to me or my relationship.

I don't have a cam even and I have no intention of getting one, but millions of people are doing it.

Every couple sets their own limits. It's all about being honest and open.

See above :smile:

Does he know what happens when you have a picture in the gallery :redface: :tongue:
 

snoozan

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See above :smile:

Does he know what happens when you have a picture in the gallery :redface: :tongue:

Actually we did briefly discuss the possibility of me getting into the camming/mutual masturbation thing, and he didn't want me doing it, but it simply wasn't an issue because it doesn't do anything for me and I don't have any desire to do it.

As far as the gallery photos go, I'll have him PM you if he wants to know the nitty gritty details. :tongue:
 

Mr. Snakey

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Its my choice with Cybersex. Its fine with her. She reads sometimes and askes why i dont. The women im friends with are wonderfull. For me to talk dirty to them i would feel very uncomfortable. I think of them as a Sister or someones wife. The Cybersex is great for exploring ones sexuality and that i did. Something i had to get out of my system. Im glad i did. Having said that it can consume you and leave you cold.
 

Drifterwood

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Frizzle - what is the difference between you jacking off on cam with someone and your GF humping her dildos and vibrators whilst fantasising that it was Leonardo Di Caprio?
 

D_Steve_Blough_Jobs

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I agree with Spoiled on this. I would call this interactive porn as well. They do have some what is called interactive porn out there and it can be good.
The reason I don't consider it cheating is that there is no contact between the people involved and generally no feelings exchanged other than sexual ideas and thoughts. I have done this only a few times and at the time I wasn't involved with anyone anyway so the cheating wouldn't apply there.
It was fun at the time but it is not something that could actually take the place of actual sex and passion with another person. No more than masterbation could replace it. But that is just my opinion.
CJ
 

B_ScaredLittleBoy

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I have two questions:

How would you feel if your partner was secretly engaging in mutual masturbation with someone, in the same room, without your knowledge?

How would you feel if your partner was secretly engaging in mutual masturbation with someone, via the internet/webcam :confused:

These questions are for Drifter (and other people who think its okay). If they're okay with that then...good.

But I don't think that's anything like the majority view. And until it is the majority view, there will be no 'new morality', only new, hi-tech ways of cheating.

Also, would you react differently if the person on the webcam with your partner lived:

i) 100 miles away
ii) 10 minutes away

?
 

Drifterwood

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OK SLB.

You're second scenario first. If I didn't know, I wouldn't have an opinion. If she chose to let me know, I would be less surprised than my Dad would have been thirty years ago to have found my mum's stash of dildos and vibrators.

Regarding the first scenario, if she needed to do that whilst I was there, then either her kink has gone into interesting territory or we have a serious problem.
 

B_ScaredLittleBoy

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I meant doing it behind your back, but you find out at some later time. You'd be fine with that?

First of all there's the lack of trust/deceit factor. Further, do you not see camming as a step up from looking at porn/pictures? Its one thing to look at generic material that is made for the soul purpose of getting you off, and another thing when you seek out another living, breathing, horny, person to get off with.

Or is that just me?
 

Drifterwood

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My reactions would have been different with different GF's that I have had over the years.

But still, how would I find out? Wouldn't I have to be a suspicious mistrusting type to begin with and be poking around in her private things or be trying to monitor her internet usage? If you are doing that, you've all got problems IMO.

I don't think that people automatically own people heart and soul in a relationship. Different people need different amounts of space and freedom of expression in whatever way, within the limits that they set each ohter.

So on reflection, I would not have an issue if a partner wanted to do this sort of thing. Maybe doing it with a partner doesn't quite do the same thing on a fantasy level. It doesn't mean that they love you less etc etc.

Maybe people are very insecure about their relationships.
 

B_ScaredLittleBoy

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I don't think its insecurity, just a lot of people have "ground rules."

And you might find out by them leaving the computer on, the person they cam with might text/call her, she might confess, her friend might tell you, etc. But I don't invade people's privacy and I expcet them to respect mine.

I don't know many people that would be "okay" with their partner essentially masturbating, engaging in a sexual act, with someone else. Do you not think you deserve to have an exclusive relationship? Anyone can be with someone who fucks around. It's nothing special or particularly good/healthy IMO.

I'd feel pretty cheap if I was with a girl who was fucking half the county (online or offline). Alternatively, I'd feel quite special if someone chose me and only me to "be" with.