Dad Update

[jameshawket]

[Long post]

I always feel the need to preface my posts, so if anyone has read my former stuff, skip down a bit:

Back in early October I came out to my parents while I was staying for the weekend at their house. They overreacted, kicked me out, and told me never to come back until I was "fixed" and a Christian "again." They took my car away, because they were helping me with payments on it, my cell phone, and cut off ties between my brother and I. For the last two months I've gotten constant emails saying how much I'm hurting them, how I'm choosing "this life" over my family, how I'm sinning and going to hell, etc.
I need to mention that my boyfriend of almost five months is going to be my first and last. I'm crazy about this guy, and I'm ready and wanting to marry him the second we are in postiions to do so. He is my soulmate, and my everything.
That being said, it was really hard to choose him over my family. I knew this would be the response I got from them, so I knew that I either had to dump him to keep my family in my life, or stay with him like I want to do and potentially lose my family forever. I wanted him, more than I needed them, so I chose to come out and accept the consequences.

OK, so with that prefaced haha.

I got another email from my dad a few days ago, it was the same kind of email. I pretty much responded with this long response about how his email get my frustrated because he doesn't see my side, he's not understanding me at all, that I'm still a Christian, that I'm still doing life right, and that he's missing out on who I am in this moment because of his stubbornness. The message included much more, but I'm keeping it brief.

So I'm guessing that took him back a bit because he responded with a really... oddly loving and understanding message, and in my dad's oh-so-stubborn way, I could see hints and underlying tones of sadness and regret for what he did and said that day, as well as a LOT of apologizing.

He and my mom are going to more intensive counseling, and they, from what it sounds like, have been going from pastor to pastor all over their area and even farther out. My guess is that they're trying to subtly find a pastor who will confirm my orientation Biblically, and explain to them that I'm still a Christian, and somehow approve my lifestyle so that they can have a relationship with me again and be in the clear with God, but not outright saying that. My parents are very sneaky.

From what it looks like, the future may be getting brighter with my family, but I'm still just so conflicted and confused. My boyfriend is my everything, if we can someday adopt children or get a surroget, we're going to do it. We want to spend our lives with each other, and if things get better between ME and my family, I don't know if that will necessarily mean good things for them and my future husband. I don't know if I could even have a relationship with them if they couldn't accept my husband, or even my boyfriend right now. It's hard, because I feel like I'll have to pick a side again when that time comes.

More so I just wanted to post on here to let you all know how things are going, and the updates with this situation, since there were quite a few messages I got asking me to update you all.

If you have any thoughts at all, I'd love to hear them. It's hard to summarize two and half months into a smallish post, so I understand that this is a very broad post, but if you have anything to say, please don't hesitate to say it.

 

[irish18]

buddy im str8 so im not going to pretend i know anything about your situation, but i read it and im sorry to hear how your family reacted. i also come from a very religious family and many of my lifestyle choices they prob wouldnt agree with. i want to wish you and your bf all the best in the future and i hope maybe seeing its christmas you nd your family may come closer together

 

[smoothlypositioned]

So tru what the guy from above said. My opinion, at some point in your lifeu have 2 do only what makes u happy, nothing else really matters in the end.

 

[dandelion]

I am glad to hear things are turning round a bit. Sometimes it is necessary to make difficult choices and make a stand on what you think is right.

 

[D_22]

Man, I went through some crap with my mom also when I came out to her a few years back. She's also very religious. I hope everything works out, it seems at least your parents are trying in some form. With my mom, we don't talk about it and it seems to be the only way we have a good relationship, sadly. That's a part of myself that she doesn't understand and refuses to accept.

 

[ryan25yo]

[Long post]

I always feel the need to preface my posts, so if anyone has read my former stuff, skip down a bit:

Back in early October I came out to my parents while I was staying for the weekend at their house. They overreacted, kicked me out, and told me never to come back until I was "fixed" and a Christian "again." They took my car away, because they were helping me with payments on it, my cell phone, and cut off ties between my brother and I. For the last two months I've gotten constant emails saying how much I'm hurting them, how I'm choosing "this life" over my family, how I'm sinning and going to hell, etc.
I need to mention that my boyfriend of almost five months is going to be my first and last. I'm crazy about this guy, and I'm ready and wanting to marry him the second we are in postiions to do so. He is my soulmate, and my everything.
That being said, it was really hard to choose him over my family. I knew this would be the response I got from them, so I knew that I either had to dump him to keep my family in my life, or stay with him like I want to do and potentially lose my family forever. I wanted him, more than I needed them, so I chose to come out and accept the consequences.

OK, so with that prefaced haha.

I got another email from my dad a few days ago, it was the same kind of email. I pretty much responded with this long response about how his email get my frustrated because he doesn't see my side, he's not understanding me at all, that I'm still a Christian, that I'm still doing life right, and that he's missing out on who I am in this moment because of his stubbornness. The message included much more, but I'm keeping it brief.

So I'm guessing that took him back a bit because he responded with a really... oddly loving and understanding message, and in my dad's oh-so-stubborn way, I could see hints and underlying tones of sadness and regret for what he did and said that day, as well as a LOT of apologizing.

He and my mom are going to more intensive counseling, and they, from what it sounds like, have been going from pastor to pastor all over their area and even farther out. My guess is that they're trying to subtly find a pastor who will confirm my orientation Biblically, and explain to them that I'm still a Christian, and somehow approve my lifestyle so that they can have a relationship with me again and be in the clear with God, but not outright saying that. My parents are very sneaky.

From what it looks like, the future may be getting brighter with my family, but I'm still just so conflicted and confused. My boyfriend is my everything, if we can someday adopt children or get a surroget, we're going to do it. We want to spend our lives with each other, and if things get better between ME and my family, I don't know if that will necessarily mean good things for them and my future husband. I don't know if I could even have a relationship with them if they couldn't accept my husband, or even my boyfriend right now. It's hard, because I feel like I'll have to pick a side again when that time comes.

More so I just wanted to post on here to let you all know how things are going, and the updates with this situation, since there were quite a few messages I got asking me to update you all.

If you have any thoughts at all, I'd love to hear them. It's hard to summarize two and half months into a smallish post, so I understand that this is a very broad post, but if you have anything to say, please don't hesitate to say it.

All the best, James! The Church is a hospital for sinners; not a museum for saints! We all fall short of the mark, so, hold your head up high and don't give up....your parents will eventually come along and see that they need God's grace as do we all!

 

[travis1985]

Remember to try and see their side, too. The Bible does say homosexual activity is sinful (big distinction between saying that the act is wrong and that the person committing it is without value), and not just at Sodom and in the archaic law books, but also in the New Testament writings of Paul, which as you know are a major foundation for modern Christians. It is very difficult to watch someone you love make choices (again, referring to the external acts you choose to commit and not the internal inclination itself) that are opposed to what you strongly believe is best.

Also remember that devout Christians are in a position remarkably similar to many gays in that their beliefs are ultimate for them, but often all they find is people refusing to hear them out and telling them that they are wrong, bad, and unfit for society. Adult children in your situation should keep in mind that they're not the only ones struggling to be respected for the strength it takes to live out what they see as appropriate in a world where everyone seems to be against them.

By undergoing counseling and even (if your suspicion proves correct) shopping around for someone, ANYONE, of faith who will tell them (in spite of their deeply-held convictions) that everything is okay, it looks like they're trying really hard here. Give them the benefit of the doubt. They love you, they're in as much pain as you are, and this isn't easy for anyone.

 

[badger2395]

[Long post]

From what it looks like, the future may be getting brighter with my family, but I'm still just so conflicted and confused. My boyfriend is my everything, if we can someday adopt children or get a surroget, we're going to do it. We want to spend our lives with each other, and if things get better between ME and my family, I don't know if that will necessarily mean good things for them and my future husband. I don't know if I could even have a relationship with them if they couldn't accept my husband, or even my boyfriend right now. It's hard, because I feel like I'll have to pick a side again when that time comes.

Stick. to. your. guns.

It may take awhile, and there will almost certainly be some bumps in the road, but you need to let your family do the necessary work of learning to accept you AND your BF. There are a lot of resources out there for Christians who genuinely accept LGBT people - you haven't mentioned your specific denomination, but almost every mainstream denomination has a group for LGBT members.

I've been relatively lucky; my parents pretty much accepted me from the day I came out as bi, and then later as poly. They accepted my partners, and made sure I knew that they loved me and were fine with them. But I hear you about being conflicted when it comes to dealing with your family.

 

[Countryguy63]

I'm so glad to read this! You keep your love for them solid and don't let biterness take over, and from the sound of it, in time things will be better

{snip} The Church is a hospital for sinners; not a museum for saints!

Absolutely love that line, Ryan :biggrin1:

 

[701757]

You're gay, you were kicked out by your parents for being so, and you're still a Christian? Why?

 

[HungThickProf]

What you're going through is very hard, and I'm sorry. I hope that it hits a point where your parents stop seeking validation in the men of God, a being we can't truly prove exists or not but we can believe in, and see their son for the wonderful man he's become. Best of luck.

And to SRK515- his beliefs in God should not be affected by his sexuality or the actions of his parents. If he believes in Christ, then that's his business.

 

[canuck_pa]

It seems to me that you are getting some very good advice.
I would add, keep true to yourself. Stick to your beliefs. But be ready to except and forgive others when they are willing to except and respect you and the life decisions you have made.

I'm not religious but had some religious education as a child and I remember being taught that, God is forgiving and loves everyone.

Best wishes to you and your life partner. I hope in time things will work out for you both.

 

[jameshawket]

Also remember that devout Christians are in a position remarkably similar to many gays in that their beliefs are ultimate for them, but often all they find is people refusing to hear them out and telling them that they are wrong, bad, and unfit for society. Adult children in your situation should keep in mind that they're not the only ones struggling to be respected for the strength it takes to live out what they see as appropriate in a world where everyone seems to be against them.

I honestly never thought of it that way, and it makes so much sense to me that I can't believe it hadn't crossed my mind before. Thank you for your wisdom!

You're gay, you were kicked out by your parents for being so, and you're still a Christian? Why?

My salvation and spirituality are not contingent on how my parents live their lives, or choose to react towards how I live my life. My spirituality is based on a personal relationship that I have with my Savior, and as far as I'm concerned, nothing in the world can take that away from me. People and the church are not going to make me do all the right things to get into heaven, the Bible makes it very clear that only Jesus can, and if I follow His heart rather than man's, then who cares what they think of me.

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

James, my parents acted pretty much the same way when one of my brothers came out. They are devout religious and it's been a battle to get them to see any other way. I know you are looking for more solid advice than I can possibly give you, but did you know that Leviticus mentions that it is just as sinful to wear mixed threads (like Cotton and Wool) and to eat a bacon cheeseburger according to Jewish law? All the commands put forth about behavioral conduct from the Bible were done in order to keep the Jewish tribe growing in number so there could be more Jewish people. Many of these laws, such as not to eat shellfish or pork or wear mixed threads are not applicable in our daily lives, neither is the idea of not having sex with a woman within 7 days of her period or having sex with someone of the same gender.

Their ideas on cleanliness went to the extreme. It was militant and it was so they could stay on top of their "game".

The best thing you can do is to get as familiar with these Biblical passages and the culture that goes with them. This knowledge is your best friend if you choose to be around those who believe in it so wholeheartedly or choose to believe in it yourself.

 

[travis1985]

James, my parents acted pretty much the same way when one of my brothers came out. They are devout religious and it's been a battle to get them to see any other way. I know you are looking for more solid advice than I can possibly give you, but did you know that Leviticus mentions that it is just as sinful to wear mixed threads (like Cotton and Wool) and to eat a bacon cheeseburger according to Jewish law? All the commands put forth about behavioral conduct from the Bible were done in order to keep the Jewish tribe growing in number so there could be more Jewish people. Many of these laws, such as not to eat shellfish or pork or wear mixed threads are not applicable in our daily lives, neither is the idea of not having sex with a woman within 7 days of her period or having sex with someone of the same gender.

No one in this situation is Jewish, though. The history of the early church as recorded in Acts and other non-Biblical sources makes it clear that most of the Mosaic law is not binding on Christians. Those books are included in our Bible for historical purposes. Stick with the writings of Paul for determining what is and isn't applicable to Christians. I don't think he says anything about mixed threads, but he does comment on same-sex relations. The parents in this case, I'm sure, know this and have been told many times over the course of their lives that they don't have to listen to what the Bible says because it also says you can sell your children into slavery and can't eat shrimp. For devout Christians who know their holy books and their religious history, that argument is an exhausted eye-roller. Just keeping it real and relevant.

 

[aninnymouse]

No one in this situation is Jewish, though. The history of the early church as recorded in Acts and other non-Biblical sources makes it clear that most of the Mosaic law is not binding on Christians. Those books are included in our Bible for historical purposes. Stick with the writings of Paul for determining what is and isn't applicable to Christians. I don't think he says anything about mixed threads, but he does comment on same-sex relations. The parents in this case, I'm sure, know this and have been told many times over the course of their lives that they don't have to listen to what the Bible says because it also says you can sell your children into slavery and can't eat shrimp. For devout Christians who know their holy books and their religious history, that argument is an exhausted eye-roller. Just keeping it real and relevant.

The problem is, most of the verses that get cited regarding condemnation of homosexuality are from the book of Leviticus. It's the one that comes up seemingly 90% of the time when homosexuality is mentioned.

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

No one in this situation is Jewish, though. The history of the early church as recorded in Acts and other non-Biblical sources makes it clear that most of the Mosaic law is not binding on Christians. Those books are included in our Bible for historical purposes. Stick with the writings of Paul for determining what is and isn't applicable to Christians. I don't think he says anything about mixed threads, but he does comment on same-sex relations. The parents in this case, I'm sure, know this and have been told many times over the course of their lives that they don't have to listen to what the Bible says because it also says you can sell your children into slavery and can't eat shrimp. For devout Christians who know their holy books and their religious history, that argument is an exhausted eye-roller. Just keeping it real and relevant.

Funny, since most Xtians I know and I know a lot of them, like to use the Mosaic law to tell others how to live. Until a few years ago, I had never talked to a Jewish person (living in the South and all) but it sure is funny how those "regular" Christians like to tell others how sinful they are for having tattoos (in Leviticus) and most importantly having sex with the same sex (especially the men).

Whether a Christian calls himself a follower of Mosaic law or not, he is likely greatly influenced by someone who is. Is this really difficult to understand?

Joel O'Steen who is the pastor of the largest church in the US preaches about not eating pork or shellfish. Since he is a non-denominational pastor, the last thing you'd think he was is a Jewish man. He has a lot of followers and writes bestsellers.

You have to search long and wide to find a church that doesn't think being gay is a sin according to Mosaic law. But there is a sect of Christians who believe everything in the "Old" testament was there just for historical purposes only. Don't you think if a higher power wanted you to spend all that time reading, he would have been putting more pertinent things in there like how the Earth was round so they could carry the good message of the New Testament to the world abroad? Or maybe something about antibiotics....or maybe something about how a woman should divorce a man who molests her children. Instead, all that history was just FAR more important to have there for reference.

But I digress, my Super Southern Religious roots are showing. Even though his parents who treated him poorly for coming out were influenced by someone who told them that Mosaic law applied to their children also- especially the part about being queer. That was an abomination and a lot of gay people are being treated like shit because of it. Regardless what you think the higher power's intentions were when he "inspired" the divine word.

 

[travis1985]

The problem is, most of the verses that get cited regarding condemnation of homosexuality are from the book of Leviticus. It's the one that comes up seemingly 90% of the time when homosexuality is mentioned.

I agree, that absolutely is the problem. The source of it is twofold. One part is well-meaning people quote it in opposition to homosexual activity (let's make sure we call it that, since that's what's forbidden, not the homosexuality in and of itself), not knowing what they should really be quoting for that purpose. The other part is that the other side knows most people aren't aware of or prepared to explain what I did in my last post, so quoting that and giving the ready-to-go refution is a good way to make the whole argument of the Biblical text appear moot. The solution is to help spread awareness of what I explained so that people aren't quoting the Bible in ignorance or deliberately misusing it as a red herring. Makes everyone look bad.

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

Regardless, it had to do with making babies. It's all about the quiverfull. Having a bunch of kids is like having a feather in your cap in religiosity. When you are a gay man, well, you can't be cranking out babies to further the religious cause now can you? Maybe nowadays you can, but think of why it was written. It was to create more little believers. Peel the onion layers back and see the origins and think as to why they were written. Personally I think it is all tripe after all the research I've put into it, but I respect others will believe what they want.

All in all, babies. As if they are special or something.

 

[travis1985]

You have to search long and wide to find a church that doesn't think being gay is a sin according to Mosaic law.

You only have to search as far as the Catholic Church, which is the largest Christian denomination of all. Now... does that mean all, most, or even more than a few Catholics realize that? Of course not. But their ignorance of their own religion doesn't change the position of the institution itself. Do most American citizens know everything in the Constitution? Nope, but it's all still there anyway.

There may be others, but they're not my specialty.

Maybe nowadays you can, but think of why it was written. It was to create more little believers.

If you're still talking about Mosaic law, it was written to help ensure the survival of a race. You might argue that that's equivalent to "creating little believers," but recall that Israel as a nation was in the midst of a huge crisis of faith at the time. The parents weren't even sure what they believed. Historically, what was needed was to keep the race alive for another day, spiritual and religious needs to be tended to tomorrow when physical survival was under control again.