damn socialist government

[B_curiousme01]

Everybody wants and deserves quality health care.

Social Security and Medicare are a complete mess. Why don't we care about the social programs in place right now that all of us pay for that provide similar services that are so screwed up many of us will never even realize a benefit? Yet everyone is screaming for social health care that this country cannot even afford. WE ARE IN TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF DEBT. This seems like the likely outcome of the new health care bill.

 

[SilverTrain]

Everybody wants and deserves quality health care.

Social Security and Medicare are a complete mess. Why don't we care about the social programs in place right now that all of us pay for that provide similar services that are so screwed up many of us will never even realize a benefit? Yet everyone is screaming for social health care that this country cannot even afford. WE ARE IN TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF DEBT. This seems like the likely outcome of the new health care bill.

Ya think?

These politicians were willing to pay Blackwater and Halliburton outrageous sums under no-bid contracts to do the work our soldiers were already doing, and to build truly shit-quality structures in Iraq.

But they won't fund nutrition for our children.

And that's the fault of a health care bill?

See my comments two posts above.

FFS.

 

[B_curiousme01]

You are bringing in individual political views to justify your position on health care. I asked a question that you did not address, so I really don't think your reply was necessary except to maybe insult someone?

Umm.. "fund nutrition for your kids?" If your the father of a child, I honestly think that it's your personal responsibility to care for them. Why should the government feed your children? I seriously do not relate.

I don't know what FFS means, so cannot reply to that.

 

[SilverTrain]

You are bringing in individual political views to justify your position on health care.

I had to stifle a laugh, here.

I asked a question that you did not address, so I really don't think your reply was necessary except to maybe insult someone?

Your "question" is a rhetorical attack on the notion of a comprehensive health care program (i.e., an individual political view justifying your position on health care).

Umm.. "fund nutrition for your kids?" If your the father of a child, I honestly think that it's your personal responsibility to care for them. Why should the government feed your children? I seriously do not relate.

I'm not surprised. My child does not need nutritional assistance. But I am aware that there are millions of children, in the USA alone, who do. And I would like to see them helped, at least in advance of wealthy individuals and corporations.

I don't know what FFS means, so cannot reply to that.

Research tools, Lesson One: Google

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Umm.. "fund nutrition for your kids?" If your the father of a child, I honestly think that it's your personal responsibility to care for them. Why should the government feed your children? I seriously do not relate.

That's a very narrow view on this subject matter.
First off... there are millions of families in our country that are run by single parents and contrary to belief not all of them are due to the fact that one parent is overly promiscuous and the other being lazy and afraid of responsibility. My father died when I was six, leaving my mother to raise five children on her own. She needed all the help she could get, and things like a school lunch programs go a long way to do that. The bill that certain idiots in Congress are blocking now not only would hold schools that provide school lunches already to a more nutritional standard, but it would also provide funding so that some can provide a meal for after school programs. You know, because it's better to have a child in school doing something productive than running the streets.

And BTW, even if your parent is buying food for your family it's not as if they're grabbing a gun and doing the hunting themselves. They purchase food in a supermarket that passes through FDA regulations so regardless the government is helping you to feed your children anyhow. Unless you live on a farm, slaughter your own animals, grow your own vegetables, clean everything and cook it by your own hand, then you cannot use the "personal responsibility" argument here without looking rather hypocritical.

Damn... it's 2010 people. Why would anyone still think families still adhere to the Norman Rockwell or "Little House On The Prairie" standard around here?

 

[JTalbain]

I think the solution might be to give the people who hate socialism in all forms exactly what they want. Cut off their social security and medicare, and don't tax them for that. Let them continue getting mail and using our federally funded roads, because that is guaranteed in the Constitution. Cut out their share of taxes for all government programs. Let them keep all their money.

I wonder how long it'll take before they'll realize that this is all a bad idea. Will it be soon, like when they realize no one is coming to pick up their trash? Will it be when they have no state utilities, and have to buy bottled water and make their own electricity?

Or will it come later, as their house burns down while the privatized fire department watches? When they have to defend everything they own through force of arms, because the socialized police will not assist them? Perhaps when they're bleeding to death and call 911, only to discover that no one is coming to save them?

As much as I don't want to join the military, and I really oppose the draft, I can actually see some logic behind the mindset of Starship Troopers. Citizenship in exchange for military service. No entitlements, just special privileges granted to people willing to fight and possibly die in defense of their society. Would be a good way to separate out the Lip-service Republicans (Those who cry out against anyone wanting the government to provide anything to anyone less fortunate, saying those liberals are a bunch of lefty pinko commie fags trying to impose their socialist agenda, when they are actually just trying to line their pockets as heavily as possible) from those watchdogging against government spending that is genuinely wasteful and inefficient. Both parties have a lot of good ideas. It's a shame to see them mired and lost in hyperpartisan bullshit.

 

[Bbucko]

As much as I don't want to join the military, and I really oppose the draft, I can actually see some logic behind the mindset of Starship Troopers. Citizenship in exchange for military service. No entitlements, just special privileges granted to people willing to fight and possibly die in defense of their society. Would be a good way to separate out the Lip-service Republicans (Those who cry out against anyone wanting the government to provide anything to anyone less fortunate, saying those liberals are a bunch of lefty pinko commie fags trying to impose their socialist agenda, when they are actually just trying to line their pockets as heavily as possible) from those watchdogging against government spending that is genuinely wasteful and inefficient. Both parties have a lot of good ideas. It's a shame to see them mired and lost in hyperpartisan bullshit.

I know that it's sort of off topic, but I have always firmly believed that some form of national service be compulsory in the US, whether a military option or something more akin to community service and/or the Peace Corps. If there had been an immediate re-institution of the draft following the proclaimed "War on Terror", we would most definitely not only have looked before we lept into two wars of conquest and occupation but would have evacuated long ago.

It's also not lost on me that the Civics classes I attended in public school have not only been stripped from most curricula but would be perceived as a form of "indoctrination" were any attempt be made to introduce them now.

 

[JTalbain]

I know that it's sort of off topic, but I have always firmly believed that some form of national service be compulsory in the US, whether a military option or something more akin to community service and/or the Peace Corps. If there had been an immediate re-institution of the draft following the proclaimed "War on Terror", we would most definitely not only have looked before we lept into two wars of conquest and occupation but would have evacuated long ago.

Yeah, and when we had Osama bin Laden cornered in the mountains, but then elected to turn south and capture Saddam Hussein instead, people probably would have been calling for us to pull the plug right there.

It's also not lost on me that the Civics classes I attended in public school have not only been stripped from most curricula but would be perceived as a form of "indoctrination" were any attempt be made to introduce them now.

I had that, it was called Citizenship for me. I remember how hard my teacher hammered for people to vote for individual qualifications, not straight party. Didn't mince words either, this was middle school, and he flat out called anyone who just voted straight party (in either direction) a "fucking idiot who's too stupid to deserve to vote". I liked him. :smile:

 

[B_curiousme01]

I think the solution might be to give the people who hate socialism in all forms exactly what they want. Cut off their social security and medicare, and don't tax them for that. Let them continue getting mail and using our federally funded roads, because that is guaranteed in the Constitution. Cut out their share of taxes for all government programs. Let them keep all their money.

I wonder how long it'll take before they'll realize that this is all a bad idea. Will it be soon, like when they realize no one is coming to pick up their trash? Will it be when they have no state utilities, and have to buy bottled water and make their own electricity?

Or will it come later, as their house burns down while the privatized fire department watches? When they have to defend everything they own through force of arms, because the socialized police will not assist them? Perhaps when they're bleeding to death and call 911, only to discover that no one is coming to save them?

As much as I don't want to join the military, and I really oppose the draft, I can actually see some logic behind the mindset of Starship Troopers. Citizenship in exchange for military service. No entitlements, just special privileges granted to people willing to fight and possibly die in defense of their society. Would be a good way to separate out the Lip-service Republicans (Those who cry out against anyone wanting the government to provide anything to anyone less fortunate, saying those liberals are a bunch of lefty pinko commie fags trying to impose their socialist agenda, when they are actually just trying to line their pockets as heavily as possible) from those watchdogging against government spending that is genuinely wasteful and inefficient. Both parties have a lot of good ideas. It's a shame to see them mired and lost in hyperpartisan bullshit.

These programs are out of money, so chances of anyone who pay(ed) collecting in the future are slim to none. They are also going to raise the retirement age. Nice.

I'm personally not against social programs. I am against those that are poorly run and adding new one's that we have now forced our kids pay for. Our country is in extreme debt. We have allowed it to happen. And we continue to do so unless we take a good look inside each of us.

Why not just give everything single cent that you make to the government and let them decide what services you can have?b Sounds like you like paying taxes. Go for it.

 

[B_curiousme01]

That's a very narrow view on this subject matter.
First off... there are millions of families in our country that are run by single parents and contrary to belief not all of them are due to the fact that one parent is overly promiscuous and the other being lazy and afraid of responsibility. My father died when I was six, leaving my mother to raise five children on her own. She needed all the help she could get, and things like a school lunch programs go a long way to do that. The bill that certain idiots in Congress are blocking now not only would hold schools that provide school lunches already to a more nutritional standard, but it would also provide funding so that some can provide a meal for after school programs. You know, because it's better to have a child in school doing something productive than running the streets.

And BTW, even if your parent is buying food for your family it's not as if they're grabbing a gun and doing the hunting themselves. They purchase food in a supermarket that passes through FDA regulations so regardless the government is helping you to feed your children anyhow. Unless you live on a farm, slaughter your own animals, grow your own vegetables, clean everything and cook it by your own hand, then you cannot use the "personal responsibility" argument here without looking rather hypocritical.

Damn... it's 2010 people. Why would anyone still think families still adhere to the Norman Rockwell or "Little House On The Prairie" standard around here?

It may be a narrow view, but we simply don't have the money to pay for new programs right now. ESPECIALLY "PORK."... as in adding other non-related programs to the back of another bill. Piggyback. Free ride whatever.

If a bill cannot stand on it's own, it should not even be considered for a vote. Adding anything on a bill that is not directly related to the bill is criminal in my mind. I know it happens everyday and most people don't care.

Our country is broke. STONE BROKE IN FACT. China owns 40% of you and me. Children not even born yet are already stacked with our debt. When is enough enough?

Call me Little House on the Prairie if you wish. If I don't have any money, I can't buy anything. Why should it be okay for the government to push us into significant debt and keep adding more without a way to pay for it? I don't understand how anyone can think this is okay.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

It may be a narrow view, but we simply don't have the money to pay for new programs right now. ESPECIALLY "PORK."... as in adding other non-related programs to the back of another bill. Piggyback. Free ride whatever.

Sorry... school lunch programs is not "pork". Please refrain from using the buzzword rhetoric because that doesn't work with me. Bottom line is, if we're going to keep our children in schools for 6-8 hours to educate them, we should also have the responsibility to provide them a healthy meal for their time. There are plenty of areas where we can cut spending to make up the deficit. The money we can save by cutting funding in defense is an excellent start. But don't sit here and act as if it's OK to make it harder for a child to obtain a decent & nutritional meal at school if they need it.

If a bill cannot stand on it's own, it should not even be considered for a vote. Adding anything on a bill that is not directly related to the bill is criminal in my mind. I know it happens everyday and most people don't care.

Our country is broke. STONE BROKE IN FACT. China owns 40% of you and me. Children not even born yet are already stacked with our debt. When is enough enough?

We're not so broke that we can't enforce public schools to adhere to healthier standards and provide a meal to a kid who may need it. Stop being so vehemently dishonest with your political views.

Call me Little House on the Prairie if you wish.

I can think of many more names than that, but I'll refrain for now.

If I don't have any money, I can't buy anything. Why should it be okay for the government to push us into significant debt and keep adding more without a way to pay for it? I don't understand how anyone can think this is okay.

Oh please... you're an adult so you can adhere to those responsibilities. But kids are a different story. They didn't ask to be here. And in a public school system, our government is responsible for them until we can get them back to their parents. If you want to send your kid to school with a lunch, that is your prerogative. However, just because you're in a situation where you can provide that and others can't doesn't mean that everyone needs to adhere to your standards... that is, unless, Time Magazine named you "Mom of the Year" recently and I just happened to be reading a copy of Electronic Gaming Monthly at the time.

 

[B_curiousme01]

The main point is to not add any money right now to our debt. This is my point. Period. I CARE NOT WHAT THE NEW PROGRAM/PORK IS. Any program added on to the back of another bill is Pork.

I still think it's a sad sign that no one cares about continuing to add programs that we don't have the money for.

Yes, there are lots of programs that can be cut and not just the Defense budget. But why will they cut anything when they can just keep adding new programs and either borrowing or printing new money?

I will say once again that you can say anything you want about me. I honestly don't care. We disagree. I don't want them to spend any more money. You do.

Don't give me BS about feeding kids at school! I was one of those kids who went to school without lunch more often than not. I know what it's like to be hungry. I grew up that way. It doesn't mean that I want to burden unborn children with gigantic debt. I want to take one issue at a time and cut the government spending on just about everything.

Sorry... school lunch programs is not "pork". Please refrain from using the buzzword rhetoric because that doesn't work with me. Bottom line is, if we're going to keep our children in schools for 6-8 hours to educate them, we should also have the responsibility to provide them a healthy meal for their time. There are plenty of areas where we can cut spending to make up the deficit. The money we can save by cutting funding in defense is an excellent start. But don't sit here and act as if it's OK to make it harder for a child to obtain a decent & nutritional meal at school if they need it.



We're not so broke that we can't enforce public schools to adhere to healthier standards and provide a meal to a kid who may need it. Stop being so vehemently dishonest with your political views.



I can think of many more names than that, but I'll refrain for now .



Oh please... you're an adult so you can adhere to those responsibilities. But kids are a different story. They didn't ask to be here. And in a public school system, our government is responsible for them until we can get them back to their parents. If you want to send your kid to school with a lunch, that is your prerogative. However, just because you're in a situation where you can provide that and others can't doesn't mean that everyone needs to adhere to your standards... that is, unless, Time Magazine named you "Mom of the Year" recently and I just happened to be reading a copy of Electronic Gaming Monthly at the time.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

The main point is to not add any money right now to our debt. This is my point. Period. I CARE NOT WHAT THE NEW PROGRAM/PORK IS. Any program added on to the back of another bill is Pork.

Yawn. Are you through with the rhetoric yet?

I still think it's a sad sign that no one cares about continuing to add programs that we don't have the money for.

Because just saying no to everything is extremely shortsighted. Even the most fiscally responsible person knows that there are still necessities that still need to be met. Making sure all of our children have a decent meal should be one of them. Or to break it down in simpler terms, you couldn't tell Con-Edison that you need to save money and try to skip out on paying them for your electricity.

Yes, there are lots of programs that can be cut and not just the Defense budget. But why will they cut anything when they can just keep adding new programs and either borrowing or printing new money?

School lunch programs are not new to this country. The money provided in the bill is minimal (compared to others) and would go a long way to help out families that need the help. Have you even went through any of the specifics of the legislation, or are you just mindlessly screaming about "pork" and "excessive spending" like so many other politically vacuous sheep?

I will say once again that you can say anything you want about me. I honestly don't care. We disagree. I don't want them to spend any more money. You do.

When it comes to taking care of our citizens and the nation's youth, hell yes I want the government to spend money. Believe me, you're not going to find many people who would disagree here.

Don't give me BS about feeding kids at school! I was one of those kids who went to school without lunch more often than not. I know what it's like to be hungry. I grew up that way.

Apparently, my story about how my father passed away and put my mom in a dire situation where she had to take care and raise five children all by herself didn't register with you. Either that, or you ignored it (which is a very common trend in the Politics section). So again, who do you think you're preaching to?

It doesn't mean that I want to burden unborn children with gigantic debt. I want to take one issue at a time and cut the government spending on just about everything.

That is the dumbest thing you have said yet. You're so worried about leaving unborn children with debt that you'd make it more difficult for the ones who are currently living to eat. Seriously, do you really think about what you're saying around here? LOL!!!!!

As much as we need to tighten our budgets, simply cutting everything is not the solution. Some places are more bloated and unnecessary than others, and we owe it to ourselves to focus on those areas first before we start deciding whether or not kids from a poor/working class family deserve to be offered a bologna sandwich and a carton of milk for lunch at a public school. So stop with your obvious naivete or blatant dishonesty in your statements. I really don't want to think you're that greedy.

 

[TomCat84]

The main point is to not add any money right now to our debt. This is my point. Period. I CARE NOT WHAT THE NEW PROGRAM/PORK IS. Any program added on to the back of another bill is Pork.

I still think it's a sad sign that no one cares about continuing to add programs that we don't have the money for.

Yes, there are lots of programs that can be cut and not just the Defense budget. But why will they cut anything when they can just keep adding new programs and either borrowing or printing new money?

I will say once again that you can say anything you want about me. I honestly don't care. We disagree. I don't want them to spend any more money. You do.

Don't give me BS about feeding kids at school! I was one of those kids who went to school without lunch more often than not. I know what it's like to be hungry. I grew up that way. It doesn't mean that I want to burden unborn children with gigantic debt. I want to take one issue at a time and cut the government spending on just about everything.

Sorry, but I'm not willing to cut poor kids' free lunch. Penny wise and pound foolish

 

[TomCat84]

Taxes need to go up, and spending needs to go down- ESPECIALLY in the Defense Dept.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Indy created a very interesting thread about how our government can cut spending, adjust taxes and solve our problem's financial issues. I think the discussion from that thread is pretty relevant in here as well. You may want to check it out, curiousme01...
http://www.lpsg.org/211242-budget-puzzle-you-fix-the.html

Notice, not one instance of cutting school lunches made by anyone.

 

[B_curiousme01]

I think because I want to look at where money is being spent before adding more debt to the debt, it has turned into I am against school lunches. My point is the same as always. We need to stop spending and get a handle on what we already spend and where money should be cut and reallocated.

I don't read entire threads always so didn't read your family history.

Also, does it really make you feel better to...put me down in every reply you make?

 

[midlifebear]

Curiosme01:

I'm sympathetic to your feelings about spending what we don't have. But the Military has sort of glossed over the issue that they've admitted to having "lost" 10 billion US in Iraq and cannot account for it.

As a former 4th/5th grade elementary school teacher (waaaay back in the 1980's) I can assure you that public school lunch programs -- as well as school breakfast programs -- will never cost 10 billion dollars. It's amazing how attentive an 11-year old is at 8:00 AM after eating some toast, a banana or apple, and drinking a glass of orange juice.

 

[B_curiousme01]

I am quite sure there is "lost" money in just about every program. Sad, that. Somehow, we've even lost money by printing money. Now we'll lose more by spending more to fix it and reissue.

 

[midlifebear]

curiousme01:

Yes, I agree with you. Certainly, Federal monies go accounted for all over the place. But do you think it was a good idea of "outsource" security forces and other important military personnel in Iraq and Afganistan to Halliburton after the military had already trained those previous members of the military who, upon leaving the military, became Halliburton employees?