Date rape. What do you think?

[Intrigue]

After reading all 12 pages of this thread I can say a few things.
1) Super glad robertoextrmu is gone. That guy has issues that need a therapists expertise.
2) Having known some very close friends in highschool that were raped I can say that rape is rape. Without consent before AND during your in the wrong.
3) To avoid those grey areas I do not drink heavily if at all and I make it a rule not to have sex with a drunk anyone. Period. The only exception now being my wife.(few glasses of Riesling and I'm pretty much guaranteed some fun time. Read:usually crazier than sober)

Hope I summed up what I think in a neat package. There are a lot of great thoughts/responses/experiences here that could go a long way to educating the ignorant.

 

[Intrigue]

If I buy a girl a Happy Meal and a movie, she damn well better be giving up dat ass!

I sure hope your just joking. Because if not then you need to have your head checked bub.:biggrin1:

 

[NumberTwentySix]

Dolfette and Acontium have completely missed the point. They seem to be operating on the premise that if you post without explicitly agreeing with them, you are promoting date rape. I call bullshit. My post addressed the story posted by galaxus, and the first post made by Madmoiselle Rouge.

I disagree with the idea that social pressure from friends or acquaintances, or a lack of inhibition caused by alcohol, or drugs knowingly and willingly ingested, constitute a total impediment to giving informed consent.

I have consented to sex with a partner while drunk, while high, and with people cheering me on. I have had someone convince me to have sex with them, shocking as that may seem to you, and they don't need your pity. I did not feel violated after any of these experiences. Others might feel differently, and I can understand and empathize with that. This whole thread is about shades of gray, right?

Dolfette, you immediately branded me a hater-mysoginist-troll, so I'll just say fuck you and die. Acontium, since the words "dumb cunt" so readily sprang to your lips, let's examine the leap in reasoning that you took. "I'm sorry dear, but without proof you fought to stop him, I have no proof you didn't want it". Believe it or not, policemen are generally ok with rape victims saying "he held a gun/knife to me and made me do it." That sort of thing is not dismissed out of hand. The idea that someone rendered you incapable of defending yourself is not the same as the idea that you rendered yourself incapable of giving consent. Get it?

In talking about galaxus' story, I said that the victim might have made her point more clear and risked walking home, rather than be raped. It seems pretty straightforward to me. Giving a pushy date a good slap across the face does not equate to calling the police, but is the next step in sending the message, "no means no". Is this blaming the victim, maybe, but as previous posters have said, "blaming the perpetrator is...obvious, and there wouldn't be much discussion." Not that there is much discussion here anyway, with you bitter, angry people gleefully busting chops.

As to the vaginal tearing bit, I didn't quite follow. Are you saying that having a knife held to your throat is no different than holding a vodka to your own lips?

P.S. Having a low post count makes you a troll? I participate sparingly on the forum because I have a big wiener and a busy life. I can't sit here all day and blither about shopping carts.

 

[dolfette]

anyone who hurts your poor ickle feelings should die?

lol

 

[AlteredEgo]

If you remember my story above, where I was concerned that I may have been morally obligated to halt my drunken date's advances, I have another story, the opposite story really involving the same guy.

I mentioned that he is very epicurean and sensual. The first time we hung out, he wanted to give me sort of a taste of Brooklyn. We went all over the borough eating and drinking the very best Brooklyn has to offer. A jerk chicken wing over here, a really fresh-tasting apple martini there, the tasting menus from two wine bars, coconut shrimp, and then terrible pinot noir at a packed dive with an amazing DJ. All of those places are gone now. Ah well.

Anyway, it was January, and it was unseasonably cold. So, every time we went outside, the cold tricked me into a false sense of sobriety. I had no idea how far gone I was until I realized that simple math (always my go-to sobriety test) was beyond my grasp. I was numb and dumb, and two hours from home by public transit (or $75 and an hour by cab). So, I asked him to let me stay at his place, and he agreed.

We played backgammon and then we got frisky and ended up having sex. The next day he seemed really upset when we were both sober. He made a great breakfast and asked me repeatedly if I was okay with what happened the previous night. He asked me to articulate my reasons for consenting to sex with him a few times. Basically, I think he was making sure I hadn't felt taken advantage of or violated. I hadn't. It wasn't originally my intention to have sex with him when I asked to go home with him, but the reason I went out with him in the first place was to see if he was someone I could eventually have regular, casual sex with. The organic flow of the evening led to mutual arousal, and even though I was totally out of control drunk, I had no memory lapses, and I remembered when I changed my mind and decided to have sex right away. Even when I was planning to hold out, it wasn't for any reason other than social convention. So I consented, and I knew what I was doing.

Just as he was uncomfortable about that time when I'd been too drunk to think, I was uncomfortable about the time he was so drunk he passed out. Hopefully we have both learned through experience how to tell when there has been too much drinking to proceed. We are both lucky that in our cases, neither of us felt violated the next day. It really does not have to turn out that way, and we were both reckless to proceed.

 

[AlteredEgo]

You women should fight. That way you can get the shit kicked out of you, possibly have many bruises, maybe broken bone or two, and possibly be killed. Then you will have an excellent case in court and make the DA's job a lot easier. You really need to plan ahead before each date.

Actually a state representative from Kansas agrees with your punchline. Seriously. Stop laughing; it's true.

The bill, which the governor signed into law last week, would require a woman to carry a separate policy for abortions. When Rep. Barbara Bollier voiced concern for women who may become pregnant as a result of rape or incest, this exchange followedeGraaf: "We do need to plan ahead, don't we, in life?"
Bollier: "And so women need to plan ahead for issues that they have no control over with pregnancy?"
DeGraaf: "I have a spare tire on my car."
"I also have life insurance," he added. "I have a lot of things that I plan ahead for."

 

[hsarge]

And here I thought I was just being cynical.

 

[Intrigue]

Nope, I read the thread that came from
originally posted by AE I believe. Just mind boggling.

 

[nicenycdick]

but, unfortunately, in the case of rape you can have a traumatised person who feels themself the victim, and an oblivious 'perp' who had no idea anything was wrong. a big problem with s&m, bondage and role play... not everyone has the sense/experience to think of using a safeword. but also, natural defence response, some people freeze up when they freak out.

an issue i have is that i go mute under stress. safe words are no use, so i rely on my partners being hyper-aware of my well being.

The victim's belief that she was victimized or the perp's belief that he did nothing wrong is not the true arbiter of intent. It is solely for a jury to decide if, under the circumstances, it was the intent of the fucker to have sex with the victim against his/her wishes. If the signs of non-consent are there and you don't or won't see them, you are a rapist. If the victim was unable to indicate consent, you are a rapist. If the victim gave what was apparent consent, you will probably be innocent.

Although this all appears to be mired in grey, it is my belief that a sober, right-thinking person understands when consent is given. If you are not sober or a little skewed, then you might well find yourself crossing the line. That's the way it is. Societal and legal rules are structured to weed out the morally impaired, whether that is due to inebriation, evilness or idiocy.