Date rape. What do you think?

[the_reverend]

What do you mean by that?

which part do you need explaining? i was being a bit glib, but pretty sure i was still clear. lol

 

[galaxus]

don't be stupid

dumb question. i kno. just being clear.

 

[galaxus]

which part do you need explaining? i was being a bit glib, but pretty sure i was still clear. lol

I didn't know you where saying it in a joking way. A lot of people don't know what date rape is, or they define it differently. They think if the girl got drunk on her own, then they can do whatever they want.

 

[Charles Finn]

ok rape is always rape

 

[the_reverend]

I didn't know you where saying it in a joking way. A lot of people don't know what date rape is, or they define it differently. They think if the girl got drunk on her own, then they can do whatever they want.

well, if she's fall down drunk to the point she can't fight anyone off and some guy takes advantage of that, then yeah...i'd call that date rape. if she gets drunk and horny at the bar and picks some guy up, not so much, even if she regrets it the next day (cuz i've been there a couple of times, and wouldn't say i've been raped. ).

the line, i suppose, that has to be defined is at what point does the ability to consent become impaired. if you drink and black out, but are still conscious and give the guy the go ahead, but then don't remember giving him the go ahead the next day...did he rape you if he believed he had your consent? does consent under those conditions qualify AS consent? where does that line between "date rape" and "drunken mistake" exist? i don't know the answers, because people's tolerance for alcohol and the way it affects them differs from person to person. so how do you establish a standard within those gray areas? women should be protected and have recourse under the law, yes, but should a guy's life potentially be destroyed when he just thought he was having a drunken hook up only to find himself labeled a rapist the next morning? no easy answers, i suppose...best just not to get blindingly drunk (or bring some back up along if you do!) and if you're going to hook up with someone, avoid the girl who can't speak clearly or go anywhere under her own power. that's not only good advice for avoiding any potential date rape claims, it's also just generally good advice...

 

[HazelGod]

Date rape. What do you think?

I think it's best saved for the third date.

 

[B_crackoff]

Technically I've been date-raped a lot in the past when I was getting slaughtered(even blacking out) every night, & sort of came to with a munter bearing down on me. Being as they'd driven me home I knew they were sober! I put it down to my stupidity in getting that drunk, & to watch myself in future.

It's a serious issue, but the law still seems to see women as pure passive beings who never initiate sex, & men are aggresively pursuing conquest. The problem with their interpretation is that if a man & woman are equally drunk, & have been seen all over each other,they will still see him as a perp. It should work both ways.

Rape = heinous crime. Definition of what constitutes consent is getting more confusing, especially when both parties judgement is impaired!

 

[rbkwp]

Date rape. What do you think?

A very unfortunate sign of our times
and possibly far more common, than is reported
M & F all the combinations..
will be around forever unfortunately
enz

stating the obvious'

 

[B_Nick8]

I'm sorry for what happened to you Nick, but I appreciate you sharing.

I really feel for you Nick and I'd like to say that years later, that feeling that you'll throw-up or wanting to kill goes away. It takes time to process that your boundaries are violated and blame yourself...society blames us on the onset. You blame yourself that had you done A,B,C,D different, it would have never happened.

Thanks. I think in some ways it was particularly difficult to accept as a man. But I processed it with a therapist a long time ago and have long since placed the blame where it belongs. In no way am I psychologically threatened or diminished by circumstances that were beyond my control. I appreciate your feedback.

 

[D_Kaye Throttlebottom]

Thanks. I think in some ways it was particularly difficult to accept as a man. But I processed it with a therapist a long time ago and have long since placed the blame where it belongs. In no way am I psychologically threatened or diminished by circumstances that were beyond my control. I appreciate your feedback.

I appreciate you sharing that it happens to men as well. I think I was projecting and relating to those feelings on the onset about blaming yourself on the onset. That therapy was successful for you is helpful (for me anyway).

 

[Principessa]

I'm worried about the OP. :redface: This isn't his first thread dealing with rape or date rape. It makes me wonder if he was violated and is struggling to deal with this trauma. :frown1:

 

[galaxus]

No. I was never raped. I just Know a few people who have been. I'm just trying to understand.

 

[Principessa]

No. I was never raped. I just Know a few people who have been. I'm just trying to understand.

Hmm, okay then. Truthfully, there are no words to describe that horror, which someone who has not been raped can understand. :no: I think it's commendable that you would want to help a firend through what will pobably be the most difficult thing in her life. I just hope you aren't pushing too hard, in your efforts to help. That can cause the victim to go further into shut-down mode.

Did you know that most rape survivors when asked to describe the attack at some point recall floating above their bodies and looking down at themselves. Much like an out of body experience. Psychiatrists believe this is because the act of being attacked is so horrible their conscious mind can't begin to process it. :frown1:

Date rape is real, it occurs. I know because I am a victim/survivor of it.

 

[dandelion]

Hmm. i don't think the question of drugs being involved has much to do with the question of whether it was rape or not. Either both parties agreed to it, or they did not. drugs come in when one party is in no fit state to protest or cant remember afterward, so there is doubt as to what went on. If one party didnt agree to it, and would have objected, then it was rape.

Im not quite sure whether to comment further because I think i might upset some people. Once upon a time I went to visit this guy, we had sex, went to bed and next morning I woke up with a terrible headache and very sore dick. Couldnt understand it and spent the next day half apologising for being so wasted. Eventually worked it out. I didnt mind, but I would have loved to see a video of whatever he got up to. Not sure what the law might say but I do not regard it as rape. Though in such a circumstance the person doing it is rather relying on the other person retrospectively not minding. Can't say as I was traumatised at all. On the one hand it was rather disturbing that someone might be doing just about anything without you having any say, but on the other quite exciting. The following evening he suggested we should cruise the local park together, but I was really feeling knackered. Might have been quite interesting.

I didnt go back, but if I had realised sooner what happened then I think I would have, if only to see what he had to say. Professional guy, very daring of him.

 

[njman2008]

My ex had this reasoning for cheating on me, although I am unsure if I believe her. She was depressed, lost, lonely, and a guy "listened" to all her problems and was "there for her." In return, the first time, he told her he wanted to sleep with her and when she said no, he went ahead and just started undressing her and kind of pushed her to lie down. He kind of didn't give her a choice. Maybe I am just gullable. It happened more than once though. He was the only one around to "be there" for her. We had issues and all her friends had just left (we had just graduated from college).

If she was completley honest with the situation, it makes me feel deep sadness for her. I don't think I can ever comprehend being a woman and being in a situation like that. I have never pushed sex, let alone hooking up, on any woman and will never be that guy. I know some of my old friends were, and that is the reason why I am not friends with them anymore. How could you treat another person that way?

Edit: I can't comprehend being in that situation, male or female. I know another male poster recalled his situation.

 

[ConstantComment]

I have come to understand that the term "date rape" refers to the fact the victim knew his/her attacker, not necessarily that they were on a proper date. Before this concept was developed, the belief was that a woman could not, legally, anyway, be raped by someone she already knew. So yeah, ex bfs, neighbors and so on could have at her all they wanted.

Otherwise, I seem to have an unpopular view towards date rape. Those high profile cases like with Kobe Bryant and Mike Tyson make me wonder why on earth did the woman put herself in a situation alone with these guys when she did not know him and there was no need to. We learn from an early age and the dating books of today remind us, if we don't want to have sex then don't go to his house and don't let him in yours.

And yet here in the UK, there have been a few date rape cases in which after more than a year of deliberations, have been thrown out of court. There was one case here in the UK in which a woman left her husband and son at the pub. Went off with some guy. It wasn’t until some footage of CCTV tape that showed the woman and her alleged assailant calmly having breakfast together in a café the morning after the alleged attack. Look up Ulrike Jonsson from about 4 or 5 years ago and you will see that she instigated a date rape investigation that eventually fell apart. After, of course, the alleged assailant’s name, John Leslie, was broadcasted on UK media.

I would like a world in which men and women can go about their business, even in the dead of night and not have to fear crime of any sort. I would also like a world in which after relationships have been established people can have reasonable expectations of them. People who must stay late at the office or who wish to help their neighbours, should not have to worry about witnesses being around to prove that “they didn’t ask for it”. But women taking guys to court admitting they can't remember whether they gave consent or not because they had had too much drink, please what a waste.

A couple of years ago I did find myself in a date rape like situation. I was out with friends at a bar and started talking to a guy. Helped by loads of free rounds, yes, I had too much. By that time I had already chosen to go off with this guy. When I said I was ready to go home, he hailed a cab, got in it with me and came inside my place. And after that I have no recollection until 5am the next morning when I found this guy in my bed.

There was a feeling that I had hit a new low. But well, no sign of force, nothing stolen what exactly could I complain about. He did admit that he had penetrated me but didn’t come. He called me and said he wanted to see me again. When I finally got over it, I agreed to see him and it turned into a nice FB for a couple of months. I had to admit, one reason why I went off with him was because I did find him sexy.

I've since become more careful when I go out. I was at a Salsa bar a couple of weekends ago and decided that the men there were a little bit agressive. I decided I would only dance one song with each one and not to accept any drinks from any of them.

If I had chosen not to see this guy again, I ask myself what would have happened had I decided to charge him. To have to admit that I had had too much to drink and to have that on record in some police files somewhere? No, I’d rather take the learning experience with me and resolve to do better in the future.

There was a time when women were more sequestered, required chaperones and had curfews. This was because women then were deemed incapable of being responsible for their safety. It's nice to have the law ultimately behind you but some siutations could simply be avoided by beahving and making choices that communicate immediately "No means no" instead of saying that at the point of delivery or after the fact.

 

[dolfette]

why on earth did the woman put herself in a situation alone with these guys when she did not know him and there was no need to.

the fact that some of these women have been stupid doesn't make it ok though.

if i leave my keys in the car while i go shopping then the guy who steals it is still charged with car theft.

 

[dolfette]

A couple of years ago I did find myself in a date rape like situation. I was out with friends at a bar and started talking to a guy. Helped by loads of free rounds, yes, I had too much. By that time I had already chosen to go off with this guy. When I said I was ready to go home, he hailed a cab, got in it with me and came inside my place. And after that I have no recollection until 5am the next morning when I found this guy in my bed.

so for all you know you were the one throwing him onto the bed and ripping his clothes off? i don't really think that's a date rape situation...you wanted to shag him but can't remember the act.

in my case...

i let a friend walk me home. i'd known him for years and thought it was safer than walking home alone. the not remembering was trauma induced according to my therapist, though i think perhaps my drink was spiked, and my last memory is of trying to kick him off.

the two situations are very different.

 

[Fleur]

Having been date raped, feeling like I should have "fought back" and being totally terrified after saying no repeatedly and just kind of going numb during and after it...it's rape, end of story.

Just because you go out on a date with a guy, does not mean he gets a free pass to have sex with you. No means no. From what I've seen and what happened to me, the men who do this are usually ones you feel like you can trust, in my case he got me when I was feeling vulnerable and got me to trust him so I felt safe being alone with him... No matter the circumstances, date rape is rape, no matter the context.

 

[BS76]

First things first, the OP hasn't even defined what date rape is. There are so many conflicting definitions now because of how much the feminists have shifted the goal posts that nobody even really knows these days.