Date rape. What do you think?

D_Kaye Throttlebottom

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First things first, the OP hasn't even defined what date rape is. There are so many conflicting definitions now because of how much the feminists have shifted the goal posts that nobody even really knows these days.

Feminists have shifted the goal posts?

How about what the law and rape counselors say?

Or what victims say.

And agreed with Fluer, often it's someone you think you can trust and that's when the betrayal happens or someone in a position of authority. It's sickening.
 

naughty

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so for all you know you were the one throwing him onto the bed and ripping his clothes off? i don't really think that's a date rape situation...you wanted to shag him but can't remember the act.

in my case...

i let a friend walk me home. i'd known him for years and thought it was safer than walking home alone. the not remembering was trauma induced according to my therapist, though i think perhaps my drink was spiked, and my last memory is of trying to kick him off.

the two situations are very different.

Dolfette,

Each experience is different. However that does not create a triage of which is more legit. I find it troubling that I have read both men and women who after having heard someone bare their soul begin to analyze and judge the validity of the individuals experience.
How does any one of us know we will respond when put in this situation?
I dont drink, I dont consume drugs unless prescribed, I wasnt wearing anything I considered provocative, yet I found myself going from the sofa of someone I though of as a friend to on the floor continuing to tell the individual "NO" over and over again to deaf ears. I was horrified, I didnt know my surroundings ( I had just come in for a second while the individual allegedly was getting his keys to give me a ride where we were to meet a group of friends) After the assault was concluded the individual gave me a ride home and exchanged pleasantries with my family. I didnt sleep for 48 hours straight. I kept going like the Eveready bunny for months until after a series of panic attacks and a 40lb weight gain in a span of a few months sent me finally to the internist ( who responded with why was I getting upset he had 12 year olds who were having sex come to him) Family ( "What did you do to provoke this?") BF ( laughing and mocking me and assuming I made it up to get sympathy while saying among a number of choice comments that it is because of sisters crying wolf that brothers are in jail now) I came to see this very differently. If this is how we are responded to by those who allegedly know us the best, is there any wonder that so many of these incidents go unreported? If you cant help at least dont hurt.
 

Onslow

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It the subject of my new blog. Here is a little excerpt of it. You can read the rest here: Durtydee's Blog

I'm asking you ladies your opinions on date rape. What is it? Is it really rape? Is it really a problem? So a guy watches a girl gets drunk and tries to get an easy lay. Is that so wrong??? *I'm trying to be neutral*
Yes it's wrong. It's taking advantage of a person who is not thinking clearly. What if your mom or sister got drunk as a skunk and got friendly with some men and was just having a pleasant time, dancing, drinking and joking around and then when she was half in a blackout or saying,'please don't' one or two of them took her out of the place to get her home safe and then they had sex with her. Would you find that wrong?

The same is true if a woman goes after a man or a man goes after a man. Any time the person is not in a clear state of mind and can be easily manipulated into sex or is forced into sex it is wrong,
 

dolfette

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Dolfette,

Each experience is different. However that does not create a triage of which is more legit.
if she says that it was consensual but she regretted it then it is NOT a date rape situation.
she said she wanted sex but couldn't recall actually doing it.
and she hardly expresses distress in her post...she felt cheap & dumb at the time, as we all do after stupid sex.

i don't see how that relates to date rape.
two drunk adults having consensual sex doesn't become rape if one of them is regretful the next day.

her point was that it wasn't rape, though some women might call it that.
 
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dolfette

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There is never a good justification for rape. Any kind of rape.

You can, however rare that is, accidentally kill someone but you cannot accidentally rape someone.
you can...kinda...

that is, the person you're with might have a freeze response and imagine threat {especially if she has been abused in the past} and you might not realise means that she's screaming ''no'' inside her head...in which case she feel all the trauma of having been raped, but you will have done nothing wrong.

it's not black & white.

a woman can feel raped even when a man hasn't intended rape...in which case she still deserves support and understanding, but he doesn't in any way deserve blame or vilification.
 

D_Rawkesbye Deadheade

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you can...kinda...

that is, the person you're with might have a freeze response and imagine threat {especially if she has been abused in the past} and you might not realise means that she's screaming ''no'' inside her head...in which case she feel all the trauma of having been raped, but you will have done nothing wrong.

it's not black & white.

a woman can feel raped even when a man hasn't intended rape...in which case she still deserves support and understanding, but he doesn't in any way deserve blame or vilification.

Inadvertent rape then? I suppose there is that particular exception.
 

dolfette

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Inadvertent rape then? I suppose there is that particular exception.
not exactly rape. just perspectives.

abusers often train their victims from an early age to be still and silent, don't make a fuss or else...that kind of conditioning can be all but impossible to break. whenever a guy says ''she's a crap lay. just lies there!'' i always wonder if maybe she's cryng inside.
 

naughty

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if she says that it was consensual but she regretted it then it is NOT a date rape situation.
she said she wanted sex but couldn't recall actually doing it.
and she hardly expresses distress in her post...she felt cheap & dumb at the time, as we all do after stupid sex.

i don't see how that relates to date rape.
two drunk adults having consensual sex doesn't become rape if one of them is regretful the next day.

her point was that it wasn't rape, though some women might call it that.

THanks for the correction. I am definitely going to have to put my reading glasses on! Sorry about that!
 

D_Cateryke Cheesysmell

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the fact that some of these women have been stupid doesn't make it ok though.

if i leave my keys in the car while i go shopping then the guy who steals it is still charged with car theft.

I think, to continue the metaphor a little further, the situation men wory about the most is when a woman hands them the keys, gets in the passenger seat and doesn't say what destination she would like to drive to...
 

dolfette

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I think, to continue the metaphor a little further, the situation men wory about the most is when a woman hands them the keys, gets in the passenger seat and doesn't say what destination she would like to drive to...
''where to?''
''are we going in the right direction?''

it's that man thing. why can't you just ask for directions? :tongue:
 

galaxus

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There is never a good justification for rape. Any kind of rape.

You can, however rare that is, accidentally kill someone but you cannot accidentally rape someone.

You kinda can...

I read a story in my class about a black woman being interviewed on how she was raped by a white man in college back in the 70's.

They guy invited her to a wine and cheese party at his frat house. It was really a frat party. Her friends encouraged her to go because they said it would be a good experience for her. So she ended up going. She was the only black person there, excluding the band.

He picked her up in a nice car, they danced, and he made her feel moderately comfortable. When they had a few drinks he walked her to a room upstairs. She didn't know what he wanted but he then started kissing her and touching her. She didn't want it and said stop. He's drunk and confused and was asking why she didn't want to have sex. He explained that she had a good time because of him, so she should show him a good time. She still said no and tried to get her thing and go. But she realized she had no way to get home. He drove her there, He'll have to drive her back.

He proposed if she just stay the night that he'll drive her back in the morning. She's drunk but still says no. So He grabs her purse and repeats his proposal again. She yells at him to give back her purse, but he just repeats his proposal.

She explained that he wasn't being violent or angry. He thought that it was all a 'cat and mouse' game. He thought he was being seductive when he was really just being annoying.

So at this point she doesn't know what to say. She in a place full of people she doesn't know but wants to go home. He goes in and takes her but she never consents. His body is too heavy for her to lift off her so she basically just gives in. But she doesn't enjoy it. She even said that she didn't even feel it because he was so small. She was constantly insulting him while having sex. She tried to go to sleep but it happened once more.

In the morning he invited to breakfast with his frat brothers. She just agreed so she could hurry up and get home. She was still being mean to him and he couldn't figure out why.

She didn't tell her friends what happened because she didn't think they would believe her or blame her for not having a good time.Years after that event, she realized that she had been raped when a friend told her a similar story that happened to her.

So is the guy really a monster? Not in my eyes but he was definitely wrong.
 

dolfette

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So is the guy really a monster? Not in my eyes but he was definitely wrong.
in my eyes he's a monster.

pretending not to know that she doesn't want it, making it clear that she's stranded there and has no choice, makes him a monster.

you'll never get a conviction but there's a special place in hell for people who use power, situation and physical size to bully sex out of the obviously unwilling.
 

Alexanddan

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I know someone that was raped when she was only young, to this day she is still scared to get with a man, I hate rapists, they should all just die!
 

ConstantComment

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****So is the guy really a monster? Not in my eyes but he was definitely wrong. ****

Yes, he's a monster. But in the early 70s, the concept of date rape was yet to be developed. Plus, there's the overlay or race. Was he a curiosity seeker. It's date rape in this case because they were classmates at the same university, he invited her on a date and offered her transportation. Part of the dating social contract, is to get your companion to and from safely. It did not happen here.

This is vastly different as well from making an uninvited visit to Kobe Bryant's or Mike Tyson's hotel room, alone and after midnight.
 

Drifterwood

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If someone is not consenting to have sex whatever the situation and someone goes ahead and has sex with that person, then it is rape. I don't see why the situation should make any difference. Being on a date is as Dolfie says, no contract for sex.

Guys who go to bars to find vulnerable victims and drug them with narcotics or alcohol are sexual predators and rapists.

The law has several problems in dealing with rape allegations.

People do stupid things when they are drunk, they wake up and realise that they have done something stupid and rationalise their feelings by claiming to have been raped. All the date rape drug media coverage in the UK lead to a massive rise in allegations. When properly tested, it became clear that the vast majority of accusers were at least 4 times over the alcohol limit the morning after. The media stopped talking so much about the drugs.

The UK police estimate that at least 10% of rape allegations are malicious. I am not aware of any women's groups who contest this. IMO, these women do a very gret disservice to the real victims, most of whom do not report anyway.

There was a case recently in the UK of a 38 year old female lawyer who had drunk two bottles of wine in her flat, went out and had another at a bar, picked up a 22 year old man/boy, took him home, had another bottle of wine, had sex with him for some time, woke up in the morning and went to the police to report him for raping her, on the grounds that she had been too drunk to give specific consent.

These are real problems for real victims. Part of my work has been in this area.
 

ConstantComment

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****There was a case recently in the UK of a 38 year old female lawyer who had drunk two bottles of wine in her flat, went out and had another at a bar, picked up a 22 year old man/boy, took him home, had another bottle of wine, had sex with him for some time, woke up in the morning and went to the police to report him for raping her, on the grounds that she had been too drunk to give specific consent.

These are real problems for real victims. Part of my work has been in this area. ****

I recall reading a similar case or maybe the same one. The guy got off but I can't remember why as per the article. I tried to find it. But the alleged assailant was under investigation for a year.