Dating Etiquette

ummmmmmm

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So it’s late in 2019. We are in a post metoo era. So I feel like the question of dating and the etiquette thereof should be readdressed.

In today’s world I want to know what is the proper place and time to ask out a woman?
What is the preferable date location/activity i.e. dinner?
And what is some of the etiquette while on a date, before, and after the date?
What I mean is how to treat the person, getting a second date, conversation, treating women like equals, etc.

I can’t wait for the answers!
 
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286798

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Too many variables for one answer.

I like coffee "dates" with the option to extend to dinner if things are going well, especially if I don't know the person. If I already know the person, going straight to dinner date is good.

A most memorable first date was doing glass fusing (craft/art). We talked the whole time but had something to do, too, which gave a fallback topic during the lulls in convo. "Why did you choose that piece?" Or "I'll find that color for you". Pottery /painting could work too.
 

LaFemme

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If the woman works for you, then you shouldn’t ask her out. Period.

You need consent for sexual activity. Just because you’re making out, it doesn’t mean you have implicit consent to go further. Even if the clothes are off.

Never have sex with a woman, especially a woman you don’t know intimately, who has more than two drinks or is high. Consent is impacted. Sure, many women can “hold their liquor”, but don’t test which ones they are.
 

rtg

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I don’t think that dating etiquette has changed..... to me, a woman should always be treated with respect and she should never be made to feel uncomfortable or be put in compromising situations.

I suppose some may think that etiquette has changed due to the self-entitlement of some generations, and just some men in general. Also porn and the accessibility to various women through dating apps and social media may have changed the perspective too. Perhaps the rise of feminism may have changed things too, e.g. women paying their half. But the fundamentals are the same (refer to first paragraph).

For me, I’d much prefer to go on a coffee date for a first date. That’s relaxed, opportunity for good conversation, is in public, and can be easily cut short or drawn out.

For a second date, I’d like to do something fun. But still in public. An art class or mini golf or something.

I’d want the man to be mindful of things that I may and may not enjoy. E.g. if he arranged some kind of activity that works up a sweat, I would hate that while I’m just getting to know someone. But some women would like that.

Never assume that you are going to be invited into her place. And don’t push it either. For me, I don’t want to sleep with anyone until we are at least exclusive. But other women may differ.
 
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MeToo shouldn't have any impact, unless you are in fact one of those assholes that the movement is calling attention to. Women are people, not objects (and of course MeToo isn't just about women, I'm saying women because this thread is asking women in AaW).

It's not that complicated. Are you her boss/in a position of power over her? Probably don't ask her out. Is she just doing her job/providing customer service? Think long and hard about whether you're construing trying to get a decent tip/doing one's job for attraction. Don't fuck around with someone for the first time when anyone is under any kind of substance's influence. Don't be a pushy/aggressive fuck. Accept "no" gracefully (no you're not entitled to an explanation for getting turned down). I guarantee most people get rejected sometimes. Great, you know for sure they're not interested. Move the fuck on. Plenty of other people out there.

I hold doors open or say "bless you" after anyone sneezes. My etiquette tends towards being old fashioned, but offering polite gestures to everyone. If I get to a door first, I hold it for people. If they get to the door first, they can hold it for me. If asked out when things aren't as flush, I might suggest meandering around a city park and just coffee or tea or something, so I can still pay my half o things. I always offered to pay my half when dating, but would accept if someone else wished to pay. Now that I've been with someone for years, our finances are tangled up so it doesn't much matter anymore. Don't just talk about yourself (I would hope that's a given, but you never know). I'd rather err on the side of being more polite around someone, than to offend.

I also prefer the option of a more casual first date with someone new, like getting coffee or lunch rather than getting dinner. Beyond that, I haven't dated in years. I'm an introvert. My usual idea of a good time at this point is getting take out and cuddling on the couch, or playing a video game co-op. Activities I enjoy are going to the range, trying new (or familiar and beloved) foods, and generally avoiding the swarming masses of humanity.
 

AlteredEgo

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Don't bother me while I am working out, on the phone, wearing headphones, or doing my job.

If you are working in my home, so not cross the line unless I have engaged you in conversation. If we have been talking beyond small talk, it is acceptable to me if you ask if we can stay in touch, even if my answer turns out to be no.

If you are my teacher, employer, landlord, or client, do not go there.

If we met in person, expect to get to know me by phone (Not text!) before I am willing to soend time with you. If we met online, expect written exchange for a while before we migrate to phone calls.

If you respond immediately to three texts in a row, I'm calling you, and I'm disappointed you didn't call me. I hate texting, and probably already told you so.

I do not care what the date is. The first few just need to be something we can talk through. A dude took me to break into a golf course to watch and photograph a meteor shower. I've gone for a beer. A coffee. A walk on the beach or through a park. I've split a plate of disco fries while feeding a juke box. I've played board games in a meadow. I've been to museums. A paint and sip. These are all good first or early dates I enjoyed. We could really talk.

I would like him to pay for the first one. If more dates follow, I am willing to usually pay my own way, and sometimes treat him.

Ask me before you do stuff to me. Or tell me you want to do a thing. Or ask if I like doing something, and then ask me to do that thing. And wake me up before you try to get me going. Do not wake me by trying to sexually arouse me. I might hurt you.

If I want to stop seeing you, plead your case once, sure, but then let me go.

Be clear with me about your boundaries, and respect mine.

Me too does not change any rules.
 
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I would like him to pay for the first one. If more dates follow, I am willing to usually pay my own way, and sometimes treat him.
Agree to all the above except this point... I prefer to go Dutch on the first date. If I'm not feeling any chemistry and say so, and a dude responds with "but I bought you dinner!", I'm gonna be hella irate. On top of that, if someone else is buying, I'm gonna get something affordable, even if I really want the filet or lobster or expensive wine/bourbon. Paying for myself removes all self-imposed pressure.
 

AlteredEgo

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Agree to all the above except this point... I prefer to go Dutch on the first date. If I'm not feeling any chemistry and say so, and a dude responds with "but I bought you dinner!", I'm gonna be hella irate. On top of that, if someone else is buying, I'm gonna get something affordable, even if I really want the filet or lobster or expensive wine/bourbon. Paying for myself removes all self-imposed pressure.
I wouldn't agree to dinner on a first date, not someplace where steak and seafood is an option, anyway. I might not be his cup of tea either. I would prefer that neither of us invest much money into the other for the first 4-6 dates, and I am prepared to pay for myself or both of us. There are a lot of dudes out there basing their dating habits on PUA, MRA and such. None of them will pay for a date. So, if dude wants to see me, he needs to cover the first date, and offer to cover the second. If there is some person who should get a gratuity during that first date, I'm happy to cover the tip. Once he makes an attempt to pay for the second date, I will insist either That it is my turn to treat him, or that I wish to cover half the bill, or my expenses, or whatever. But he has got to cover the first one, AND behave in a manner that indicates he doesn't mind as long as I keep agreeing to meet with him. It's a test.
 
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I wouldn't agree to dinner on a first date, not someplace where steak and seafood is an option, anyway. I might not be his cup of tea either. I would prefer that neither of us invest much money into the other for the first 4-6 dates, and I am prepared to pay for myself or both of us. There are a lot of dudes out there basing their dating habits on PUA, MRA and such. None of them will pay for a date. So, if dude wants to see me, he needs to cover the first date, and offer to cover the second. If there is some person who should get a gratuity during that first date, I'm happy to cover the tip. Once he makes an attempt to pay for the second date, I will insist either That it is my turn to treat him, or that I wish to cover half the bill, or my expenses, or whatever. But he has got to cover the first one, AND behave in a manner that indicates he doesn't mind as long as I keep agreeing to meet with him. It's a test.
I guess my "test" is that I want him to offer to pay (I'm looking for a gentleman), and I want him to be ok with my paying my own share (I'm looking for a respectful partner).

I prefer to not do dinner on a first date but will consider it if we've talked at length on the phone and it's not awkward convo. I think I posted here about the dude who took me to a nice dinner and was a horrible tipper. It'll be a while before I go that route again. :confused:

Forgot to include that the big reason I want to go Dutch is so we both have equal skin in the game. I want a relationship where each person considers the other... not always 50/50, sometimes is 80/20 and others is 10/90, but one where both are committed to the overall health of the relationship and benefits to each. If my schedule is busy, he may need to come to me. If his life is hectic, he's gotta be ok with me doing more . Etc.
 
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AlteredEgo

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I guess my "test" is that I want him to offer to pay (I'm looking for a gentleman), and I want him to be ok with my paying my own share (I'm looking for a respectful partner).

I prefer to not do dinner on a first date but will consider it if we've talked at length on the phone and it's not awkward convo. I think I posted here about the dude who took me to a nice dinner and was a horrible tipper. It'll be a while before I go that route again. :confused:

Forgot to include that the big reason I want to go Dutch is so we both have equal skin in the game. I want a relationship where each person considers the other... not always 50/50, sometimes is 80/20 and others is 10/90, but one where both are committed to the overall health of the relationship and benefits to each. If my schedule is busy, he may need to come to me. If his life is hectic, he's gotta be ok with me doing more . Etc.
That is certainly a valid method. It just isn't mine.

I have paid for two first dates I didn't think of as dates. I took a co-worker to dinner. I was his boss, but also thought of him as a friend, or at least someone who would be a friend if I wasn't above him in the organization chart. He was having a rough go, and it negatively impacted his work, which reflected poorly on me. I figured the cost of a nice dinner was nothing compared to my bonus if he could get his shit together. He worked two jobs and went to school, and when he got home, he made supper for his family and then packed their lunches for the next day from the leftovers. He had been... prolific. I thought a relaxing supper out and a listening ear would help. It did. Whatever I said to him restored his confidence and he busted his ass for me from then on. There absolutely was mutual attraction and chemistry, but dating him would not have been ethical. My boss would not have cared, but it just isn't me. There were a few times diring the two years we worked together that I was sure he was about to kiss me. In every instance, I either assigned him a task and dismissed him from my presence, or walked away from him. Whenever he lost his goddamned mind and flirted with me with potential witnesses, I told him he was being inappropriate. If we were alone, I did usually flirt back.

A few years later, after neither of us worked there, we discussed the possibility of us acting on that mutual attraction. He referred to that dinner as our first date. I insisted it was not a date. I just gave an overworked, underpaid father of an entire brood the night off. He still says it was a date. He said he had a crush on me ever since that night. I reminded him he had a crush on me since I showed up before my job interview to see what people working there wore, and pretended to be a customer. When he got a little too cute with me, I confessed I was there on a recon mission and intended to become his boss. Then I quizzed him about working for that company. But if he wants to think of that dinner retrospectively as a date, fine. That company is all but dissolved now.

The other was also when I was working there. Just outside was a coffee shop at which I had once been the worst barista alive. They loved me there anyway, and gave me free coffee all the time. A customer I had assisted earlier was behind me in line. He tried to pay for my latte, but simce mine was free, I paid for his instead. They comped his too, so I put the money for both into the tip jar. We sat and talked until I was late returning from my break. I never expected to see him again, since he was a tourist from the other end of the world. As far as I was concerned, two people with the same bandages on their hearts had an incredible chat, friends for one hour only, and went on with their lives, apart. A few years later, he recognized my voice in a video game. After that, we had a thing. He took me to Paris that May.

I didn't think of either as dates.
 
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rtg

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I wouldn't agree to dinner on a first date, not someplace where steak and seafood is an option, anyway. I might not be his cup of tea either. I would prefer that neither of us invest much money into the other for the first 4-6 dates, and I am prepared to pay for myself or both of us. There are a lot of dudes out there basing their dating habits on PUA, MRA and such. None of them will pay for a date. So, if dude wants to see me, he needs to cover the first date, and offer to cover the second. If there is some person who should get a gratuity during that first date, I'm happy to cover the tip. Once he makes an attempt to pay for the second date, I will insist either That it is my turn to treat him, or that I wish to cover half the bill, or my expenses, or whatever. But he has got to cover the first one, AND behave in a manner that indicates he doesn't mind as long as I keep agreeing to meet with him. It's a test.
I agree with this! I once dated a guy and we went on at least 5 dates and he NEVER offered to pay. I always offered to pay half and he always accepted. Red flag for me. I’ve dated too many men (perhaps I shall call them boys) who expect me to pay for almost everything (even for them) because I earn good money. I do not want to set that expectation.
 
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Right now, I'm seeing how little effort many people are willing to put into dating. Men with no profile writeup, few pictures, short responses IF they respond at all. I'm sure it's the same for women.

I saw a saying the other day that sums up my feelings:
Let's keep it simple. Respect my time. Match my effort. Keep your word. Always be honest. Stay consistent.
 

ummmmmmm

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I just read all the replies and it seems maybe my questions was misinterpreted or was somehow put into a work/boss context. I just meant in general society has changed. Metoo made it a lot more clear what types of things men did/do that were perceived as normal that no longer are. So I asked about dating etiquette in the context of what is an appropriate date, how and when should you approach or ask a woman out. So thank you for the replies. I’m not sure if my clarification changed any of the answers either haha! Also, I say girls sometimes just like I say guys sometimes. It’s colloquial not literal.
 

AlteredEgo

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You have asked about etiquette and were told that 'girls' is poor form. Instead of taking that onboard, you make excuses for why you will continue this increasingly outmoded practice.

I do not believe your clarification does change the answers. You have been told when it is and is not okay to approach a woman, for example.
 

Spartan727

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While I appreciate that you use “women” here, your recent posting shows your default is “girls.”

Don’t call me a girl.
So it’s late in 2019. We are in a post metoo era. So I feel like the question of dating and the etiquette thereof should be readdressed.

In today’s world I want to know what is the proper place and time to ask out a woman?
What is the preferable date location/activity i.e. dinner?
And what is some of the etiquette while on a date, before, and after the date?
What I mean is how to treat the person, getting a second date, conversation, treating women like equals, etc.

I can’t wait for the answers!

My attitude is this if you yourself have to ask if it’s the right time then it’s more than likely not.
How to treat a person? Getting a 2nd date? Conversation? Treating a woman Like equals...

How to treat a person.. seriously? How do you function in life. No reason to jump the gun, as you aren’t beyond how to treat a person yet.
As for treating a woman like equals.
I read your comments, not even sure why you asked this question. You wouldn’t have the ability to treat me as a equal. That requires Respect - class - dignity - honor - integrity. Perhaps you should go do some self evaluation.
Then maybe you’ll see the answers to your question.
 

LaFemme

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When you change your language, you change the way you think. Using the term “girls”, even “colloquially” as you say, lets your mind continue to think of us as girls. Using words like ‘ladies’ or ‘women’ gets your mind to think differently. It imbues a deeper respect. It all starts with how you think about us. Do you, deep down inside, respect us? All the etiquette help in the world won’t help you if you don’t truly hold that belief.

Men that truly believe women are their equals never try to coerce them into sex, never have to worry about the ‘rules of dating’, never call us “girls”, and don’t worry about the #metoo movement. It’s because we we were always people to them, not some strange creature they had to de-mystify or conquer. Change the way you think first. The rest gets easier.