Dating someone who is HIV+ and you are not

Sklar

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I just recently met a guy who has totally rocked my world.

We mesh well.

We click well.

We have the same tastes in movies and books.

I have never dated someone who is HIV+/Undetectable.

Can anyone please provide me with some links where I can do some research on what undetectable actually means?

I know that as long as he stays on his medication that there is a 2% chance of contracting the virus.

And the use of condoms decreases that even more.

I just want to read up on more information to put my mind at ease.

I really like this man.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thank you in advance.

Sklar
 

erratic

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Congratulations on finding someone so great, Sklar. I hope things turn out for the best for you, whatever that may look like.

There's a lot of talk about undetectable viral load in poz communities, as well as in queer communities in general. People have lots of thoughts about it and new research continues to come in, so there's no one set philosophy about any facet of it (except, of course, that it's a good thing for poz guys to have such a low level of the virus in them).

It does seem that having a consistently undetectable viral load reduces the likelihood of HIV transmission, which makes perfect sense when you think about it. If a guy with HIV cums in another guy but there are only two copies of the virus in his load, they may well never find their way into his body and replicate. However, if there are thousands or millions of copies of the virus... Of course, there are lots of other factors that affect transmission, so it's probably not enough to say low viral load = safe sex.

This is a nice lengthy discussion about some of the competing viewpoints about the issue. It cites this website, which has lots of sex-positive information about man-on-man sex, including viral loads (and stresses that you have to be okay with whatever amount of risk you're willing to take).

Whatever you choose, I'd encourage you to keep educating yourself to make the best and most informed decision for you. And when you do choose, please do so without any thought to guilt or other emotions that might hold you back from doing what's best for you.
 
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robi06

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Congratulations on meeting a great guy. It's great that you want to do your own research on this too.

Try looking on the Terrance Higgins trust website (Our Charity | Terrence Higgins Trust). There is information about risks of transmission. And also aids.gov has information for partners here: When One Partner Is HIV+

Also as the other poster mentioned there is some information of pre-exposure prophylaxis here: PRE-EXPOSURE PROPHYLAXIS (PrEP)

Viral load testing is a measure of assessing how much virus is in a sample. This is carried out by taking a sample of blood and then amplifying the viral RNA in the sample using the enzymes and heat. Once the sample has been amplified the amount of virus can be assessed. An undetectable level usually means that there are fewer than 20 copies per millilitre of blood.

It's important to recognise that this is a blood test and doesn't assess the viral load in other body fluids; such those you are more likely to encounter such as as semen and preseminal fluid. So you should, as always and as you would even with someone who didn't have HIV, always use a condom and other protection for other activities such as dental dams for rimming.
 

AtomicMouse1950

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All of these comments & reference sites are very useful indeed. I have been with one man for the past 3 yrs who is HIV + undetectable. He gets checked monthly at a clinic. I have no fear of his loads. I enjoy being w/him. We have a lot in common and I have been negative for all this time. If I stay true to him, which I plan to be, I don't expect to convert. And if I do, I will stay with him no matter what. And deal with it.
 
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Infernal

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Research and educate yourself, then choose what you want to do from there. While you figure this out, protect yourself. It's a complex question, with many choices and decisions to make.

My partner is HIV +, I'm not. We've been together almost 6 years and plan on getting married sometime this summer. We see the same Dr - one who specializes in gay men with HIV. We have an open relationship, so we use condoms all the time, and I still get tested a few times a year. I insist that he give full disclosure to anyone he sleeps with, and that he be safe to protect the other person. If he chooses to have sex with someone else that is HIV +, then he needs to trust his instinct on being safe or not. HIV isn't the only thing out there.

Investigate PrEP. It may be an option for you. It's about your comfort level. Seek out a medical professional and ask tough questions, even if they make you uncomfortable. If you don't understand the answer, ask for more information.

Every successful relationship requires open and honest communication. This type of relationship is no different, there are just more questions and more answers.
 

MuscledHorse

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Do not let HIV status get in the way of a good thing. HIV is actually a very wimpy bug (compared to everything else out there) and is pretty hard to catch since you need immediate blood exposure to do so (unlike, say, hepatitis, which can live outside the body for up to 48 hours). Take proper precautions and you will be fine. :)
 

bigred0818

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Firstly, I want to say that I think that what you are doing is commendable! There are so many people who would run a mile and harshly discriminate, in such a position. Thank you for being understanding and open.

I have been in such a relationship, before, too. And at the beginning of the relationship we booked an appointment to see a specialist doctor who talked us through everything. My advise is to do just that. Go book an appointment with his clinic and talk to someone who knows their stuff for real! You will be surprised at what you hear. The nurse we saw was so incredibly nice. We had a really comfortable chat with her, and she spent half her time laughing at us because we were asking her stuff that we had heard "on the grape-vine", so to speak, or from what we had read on websites, and it was all so wrong and out of date that it cracked her up! Basically, as long as he is undetectable and on medication, the risk is so incredibly low, that you barely have anything to worry about. Just have safer sex, like you normally would, and all will be fine.

I wish you a great future together! I hope you have some fantastic times.

Much love. X
 
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Sklar

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Thank you all for your kind words and advice for me.

I am going to be making an appointment with my Infectious Disease doctor and talk to him about Truveda.

Going the PReP route will help me overcome my nervousness and apprehensions. As long as I see it as another layer of the safety net, that will ease my mind.

From what I've read so far, using that and practicing safe sex (condoms) seems to be the route that would help me.

Has anyone else in here gone the PReP route?

I don't want to get too far into other peoples business but I would like know why or why you didn't, if you don't mind.

Thank you all, again, I do appreciate your time and thoughts on this matter.

Sklar
 
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joshjl

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I don't get it, it doesn't make sense to take Truvada. Why would you take these pills if you don't need them. You're not sick, don't put these pills in your body.
The guy you met is hiv+ and undetectable; so am I. There's no way you can get infected if you have safe sex. It's even hardly possible to get sick without protection.

I really dislike the the comment robi06 made. You're a healthy man, you shouldn't be taking this crap I'm putting into my body for the last 10 years. It's my rescue, I know, but you're not sick nor in danger.
 

Sklar

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I don't get it, it doesn't make sense to take Truvada. Why would you take these pills if you don't need them. You're not sick, don't put these pills in your body.
The guy you met is hiv+ and undetectable; so am I. There's no way you can get infected if you have safe sex. It's even hardly possible to get sick without protection.

I really dislike the the comment robi06 made. You're a healthy man, you shouldn't be taking this crap I'm putting into my body for the last 10 years. It's my rescue, I know, but you're not sick nor in danger.


Hi Joshi, thank you for your input.

The way I understand Truvada works, is it prevents you from getting the HIV virus. As a bad analogy, it's along the same concept of the Plan B pill preventing a fertilized egg from attaching to the womb.

It's not a vaccine, at least no has claimed it is, that I have found.

It's just another safety net in the safe sex column.

As far as I understand it, you (Joshi) shouldn't be taking Truvada as you are already HIV+ it makes no sense for you to take it. So I don't understand you comment about "you shouldn't be taking this crap I'm putting into my body for the last 10 years."

I would be taking this to prevent me from having to take the crap you've been putting into my body for the last 10 years.

The only thing I have come across as a negative for Truvada is that it might have kidney impairment as a side effect. So I am looking more into that, too.

I, personally, don't have an issue with getting as much information, as I can, so I can make an informed decision. If you can point me in the direction of studies that show Truvada isn't as good or doesn't do at all what they claim it does, please let me know.

But I want studies, not peoples opinions. The more I learn about this, the more I realized that MY original opinions were based off of fear and ignorance. So I want to get educated.

I respect your opinion, but I need more than opinion to make this decision.

I need facts.

Thank you for your time and thoughts :)

Sklar
 

MisterSlave

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Feel free to contact me in private, Sklar. . we have talked before. If you wish information on this subject I would be happy to provide you my inside. I have had sero-dischordant relationships before. Feel free to ask, man.

Misterslave.
 

bigred0818

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Hi Joshi, thank you for your input.

The way I understand Truvada works, is it prevents you from getting the HIV virus. As a bad analogy, it's along the same concept of the Plan B pill preventing a fertilized egg from attaching to the womb.

It's not a vaccine, at least no has claimed it is, that I have found.

It's just another safety net in the safe sex column.

As far as I understand it, you (Joshi) shouldn't be taking Truvada as you are already HIV+ it makes no sense for you to take it. So I don't understand you comment about "you shouldn't be taking this crap I'm putting into my body for the last 10 years."

I would be taking this to prevent me from having to take the crap you've been putting into my body for the last 10 years.

The only thing I have come across as a negative for Truvada is that it might have kidney impairment as a side effect. So I am looking more into that, too.

I, personally, don't have an issue with getting as much information, as I can, so I can make an informed decision. If you can point me in the direction of studies that show Truvada isn't as good or doesn't do at all what they claim it does, please let me know.

But I want studies, not peoples opinions. The more I learn about this, the more I realized that MY original opinions were based off of fear and ignorance. So I want to get educated.

I respect your opinion, but I need more than opinion to make this decision.

I need facts.

Thank you for your time and thoughts :)

Sklar

There are three points at which drugs will attack HIV:

1. The initial connection with T-cells
2. Stopping the HIV cell entering into the T-cell
3. Stopping the HIV cell being able to replicate

Truvada is one of the three base drugs that is included in a HAART regimen. For example, Truvada, Rilpivirine, and something else will constitute an effective medication regime. Each of the drugs specialises in each of the important stages of the above cycle. Truvada is important because it stops the HIV cell being able to connect the the T-cell, and if that is stopped, then the HIV cell will quickly die, and therefore no infection will take place. People who are already HIV+ still need this crucial part of the cycle, as it stops any further infection. Kind of like catching HIV again. So for a HIV- person, it would stop the very first point of infection, which is the very first point, above. Have I explained that well?

Anyways, there are countless studies going on where HIV- people are using Truvada to prove that it can be used as a preventative method. And this is a good thing. I have a friend who lives in SF, and who is currently part of one of these studies, and so far, everyone who is involved in the study (some 2000 people) have all remained negative. However, these drugs are incredibly strong and they can make a lot of people very sick, simply because they are altering one's body on a cellular level. This is massive!! It's kind of like having chemotherapy to make sure you don't get cancer!

Search the San Francisco HIV/AIDS non-profit organizations. They will have a lot of information about using Truvada as a preventative method.
 

joshjl

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Hi all,

Actually the comparison of big red0818 of having chemotherapy to prevent cancer is kind of what I meant. I recently stopped using Truvada cause I was having serious troubles with the side effects.

Sklar I totally understand that you want as much information, and that this situations is confusing for you right now. I also want you to have the correct knowledge and encourage you to get well informed.

However, the changes of you getting sick from this particular person is the same as any other person. At least you know he is undetectable. If you would be using Truvada as a prevention method, it would be the same as handing out Truvada samples to everyone. In theory, nobody would get sick anymore, but is this the correct prevention?

But again, that's my opinion and I highly support your need of education.

Good luck man!
 

belowaverage1

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Here's my thoughts based on what I've read and discussed with friends:

To start - congrats on finding a guy that you like. That's really great and I hope that it works out well for you.

Prep is a very specific tool used to help prevent the spread of hiv1. If you're to use it it's very important that you take it every single day. There is a laundry list of side effects that you should be aware of: TRUVADA® (emtricitabine and tenofovir disoproxil fumarate)

Make sure you wear a condom at all times and understand that your risk for transmission is always present, but lowered when practicing sex with condoms. Same thing with Preep. Risk is present, but lowered.

The undetectable thing is important to someone who has hiv1 but doesn't have much to do with you.

There's always risk, just be safe and take the proper precautions you feel are right.

Also don't let the negativity of another person influence you in either way. This is a serious issue and people will understandably handle it differently than others.

I read a lot of things going back and forth about how you can and can't spread the virus. Best to just protect yourself at every opportunity.
 

Sklar

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Hi all, I've gotten some private messages about what I found out, so I thought I'd just post the answer here.

I am not keen, at all, on the serious side effects of Truvada. I honestly think the side effects are worse than what it is supposed to prevent.

So saying, it's safe sex for the two of us.

We've both talked about it and he has done a lot to ease my mind.

I want to thank everyone for their input.

Sklar
 

fordonfire

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this study was just published i think

An analysis of more than 750 serodiscordant heterosexual and gay couples in the PARTER study who engaged in more than 45,000 condomless sex acts found no cases of linked HIV transmission when the positive partner was on effective antiretroviral therapy (ART), confirming that treatment as prevention works, according to a report at the 21st Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections (CROI 2014) this week in Boston.


hivandhepatitis.com - CROI 2014: HIV Transmission through Condomless Sex [VIDEO] | Treatment as Prevention/Test & Treat