Dead people voting in chicago

TexanStar

Worshipped Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Posts
10,496
Media
0
Likes
14,978
Points
183
Location
Fort Worth (Texas, United States)
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
"In all, the analysis showed 119 dead people have voted a total of 229 times in Chicago in the last decade."

"Jim Allen, a city election board spokesman, says a majority of those dead voters were most likely clerical errors, involving family members with the same names and addresses."

OMG

I bet McCain would've taken it!!! It was such a close election! There's nothing left to do but throw the baby out with the bathwater!

Nominee Barack Obama John McCain
Popular vote 3,419,348 2,031,179
Percentage 61.92% 36.78%
 

TexanStar

Worshipped Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Posts
10,496
Media
0
Likes
14,978
Points
183
Location
Fort Worth (Texas, United States)
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
When dead people are voting, it's time to fix the system. Don't you think so?

I already clearly stated that I am supportive of voter ID laws if you are willing to put up the money necessary to make sure that they are free of all fees and easy for people in conditions of poverty to obtain.

The problem is your party never wants to pay for that shit. I say, I say put your money where your mouth is, boy.,
 

phonehome

Superior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Posts
3,896
Media
0
Likes
4,277
Points
343
Gender
Male
Here is the question I have always asked if Republicans are so all up in arms about this then why do they not insist on as part of renewing a new "formula" for the VRA the part that got gutted by the Supreme Court or as a part of any of there post 2008 "voter ID laws" that there be an absolute linkage between the "voter rolls" in each state however that gets divided up, county or what ever and who ever is in charge of issuing death certificates without which most if not all funeral homes by company policy if not by a state or local law will not "process a body". Without which practically no insurance company will process a claim for life insurance, without which practically no attorney will have anything to do with administering a will. Without which you can not get "survivors benefits" from social security or some other "pension"

It would work like this, John Smith dies, Jane smith to do "anything" needs to and gets a death certicate from the local coroner or who ever and that person facing JAIL time if he/she does not do it puts the info into some "data base" that sends that info to every registrar of voters through out the entire state and just like the coroner is risking jail time for not doing it person on the other end is required to ensure that withing lets say 30 days that name but ONLY that name gets purged from the one correct list in other words John H Smith in Milwaukee does not get John H Smith in Madison purged or all the John (any middle initial) Smiths in Green Bay or all the J---- ----- Smiths state wide.

In many if not most cases of "voter impersonation type voter fraud" that are accomplished via the use of absentee voting it is a former spouse voting for a long dead husband or wife who keeps getting sent an absentee ballot either because it is easy to request over the phone, by mail or these days often online or in the case of some states you can get on "auto distro" and sign up once and then get one for every election "forever"

Funny but you never hear Republicans complaining about those "dead people still voting"

Could it be because more often than not that dead person voted R rather than D ??

"Solve" the "problem" once and for all or keep bitching about it, put up or shut up
 
  • Like
Reactions: b.c.

Foghorn Leghorn

Sexy Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Posts
241
Media
0
Likes
37
Points
38
Location
Orlando
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
"In all, the analysis showed 119 dead people have voted a total of 229 times in Chicago in the last decade."

"Jim Allen, a city election board spokesman, says a majority of those dead voters were most likely clerical errors, involving family members with the same names and addresses."

OMG

I bet McCain would've taken it!!! It was such a close election! There's nothing left to do but throw the baby out with the bathwater!

Nominee Barack Obama John McCain
Popular vote 3,419,348 2,031,179
Percentage 61.92% 36.78%

Why are you opposed to demanding integrity in our political process? One person should equal one vote. What's your problem with that?
 
  • Like
Reactions: hardsounder

phonehome

Superior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Posts
3,896
Media
0
Likes
4,277
Points
343
Gender
Male
Look bud your complaint was about how all these dead people are on the voting rolls which you then just know means they are all in fact voting some how some way and of course they are all voting 'the wrong way" because you would be all for it if they voted all your way because it would only "pad your lead"

So I say that if dead people being on the voting rolls is the problem you are trying to address then ensure that when someone dies they and they alone get removed in an timely manner, I suggested with 30 days which seems highly do-able.

If the dead people are not on the voting rolls then no one can vote in their place no matter what method of voting they try to employ, absentee, voting in person either early or on the day of election.

ID no ID it does not matter if the dead people are not on the list to begin with.

What is wrong with that direct solution?

Why do you insist on voter ID which is or at least can be easily manipulated into nothing more than expanded/enhanced Gerrymandering or having Kathrynn Harris style big highly error filled voter purges, thousands if not millions of names up to 90% of which are "false positives" and should not be removed but are dumped on local supervisors of elections as late as legally possible before an election and even include instructions that say the names must all be purged, no exceptions and local supervisors of elections are specifically barred from doing any verification on there own and gee what do you know most of the names on the list are in areas that "vote the wrong way" or "sound hispanic" or "sound black" and are just way to likley to "vote the wrong way"

What is wrong with just making sure those dead people are not on the voting rolls in the first place because they get removed when they die?

Is that just too direct and simple or is the "real problem" that my solution does NOT accomplish "what you are really trying to do" ??
 
  • Like
Reactions: b.c.

b.c.

Worshipped Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Posts
20,540
Media
0
Likes
21,784
Points
468
Location
at home
Verification
View
Gender
Male
Should be an automatic year (or more) in jail. It's treasonous to try and cheat our democratic process. Agreed?

You mean treasonous as in the GOP's shutting down of government and holding Americans hostage to have it THEIR way,

or conspiring to undermine the functioning of government by blocking bills, refusing to put them to a vote, and blocking appointments to the high courts,

or refusing to fill a Supreme Court vacancy if a Democrat selects the appointee,

or fraudulently claiming widespread voter fraud in order to deny black people and other minorities of their right to vote,

or openly encouraging a foreign government to HACK American servers and publish their emails and classified information?


Is THAT the kind of TREASON you're speaking of?
 
  • Like
Reactions: keenobserver

hardsounder

Legendary Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2016
Posts
341
Media
24
Likes
1,157
Points
213
Location
USA
Sexuality
80% Straight, 20% Gay
Gender
Male
I think goverment feels we are all to stupid to vote. Thats one reason we have the electorial college.
I really dony see what the problem showing ID . We show ID to cash checks , sign a lease , use credit cards and receive a goverment assistance . So why not to vote ,
 
  • Like
Reactions: halcyondays

halcyondays

Worshipped Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Posts
6,440
Media
2
Likes
10,513
Points
208
Location
US
Sexuality
80% Straight, 20% Gay
Gender
Male
I think goverment feels we are all to stupid to vote. Thats one reason we have the electorial college.
I really dony see what the problem showing ID . We show ID to cash checks , sign a lease , use credit cards and receive a goverment assistance . So why not to vote ,

Because there are millions of citizens who have no ID, primarily because they don't have a driver's license or passport. There is no federal or state requirement that citizens have identification papers or ID, much less carry them or present them on demand. Totalitarian governments do that.

Modern voter ID laws have been enacted primarily by Republican statehouses/governors to intimidate or keep people--predominantly Democratic voters, predominantly poorer people of color--from voting.

Two entire Constitutional amendments have been enacted by the states to stop this sort of political behavior. Amendment XV in 1870 says the vote cannot be denied by race, color or condition of previous servitude. Amendment XXIV in 1964 eliminated Jim Crow poll taxes. The spate of state voter ID laws in the last 15 years are a return to Jim Crow.

A new amendment is required to end voter ID laws. What is most likely is that a more liberal Supreme Court will eliminate them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: keenobserver

tripod

Legendary Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2006
Posts
6,686
Media
14
Likes
1,894
Points
333
Location
USA
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
2 Investigators: Chicago Voters Cast Ballots From Beyond The Grave. http://tiny.iavian.net/d74b

Did they crosscheck middle names? Did they crosscheck social security numbers? Do we have any knowledge of the methodology by which they came about their conclusions?

The report also very carefully said, that 113 people APPARENTLY voted a total of 229 times between them over the last decade.

"Apparently" is a horribly indistinct adverb FYI.

So maybe 4 elections in a decade and that's averaging around 70 cases of ALLEGED voter fraud per election... does this amount to more than a hill of beans in anyone's mind?

CBS2's 'investigative" reporting team (as locally hyped as they are) are not on par with the "Elections Board" and their statement that a bunch of people APPARENTLY voted from beyond the grave is such chickenshit journalism, that I can't even take it seriously as a news story worthy of even mention or... a fucking passing glance...

It was cleverly concocted with a sensational title deliberately meant to entice and tantalize... I don't fault conservatives (and the OP) for falling for it and becoming outraged by it... that's what it was intentionally designed to do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: slurper_la

KennF

Legendary Member
Joined
May 3, 2010
Posts
2,185
Media
9
Likes
1,964
Points
258
Location
Florida (United States)
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
So one shouldn't have to present ID to buy a handgun either, right? I disagree. One should have to present ID to do either .

Actually, you're comparing apples to oranges. We are talking about the balancing.

My understanding of your argument is that State issued ID prevents voter fraud. My comment is that any such ID must not present a significant barrier and thus in practice exclude or preclude valid voters.

So, I've presented my balancing argument, and you cross argue gun laws.

However, let me take YOUR side of the voter ID argument.

First, that State-issued ID's are necessary stop in-person voter fraud.
In order to have in person voter fraud, (a) the person must know that the person they are pretending to be is not going to show up; (b) that they are at least of the same sex and known build as the non-present voter; (c) that they are able to forge a close enough signature to the voter rolls of the non-present voter; and (d) that none of the poll workers, who are generally from the same neighborhood, know the person who is supposed to be voting.
Only under these conditions can a State-issued ID prevent the in-person voter fraud.​

Second, that the State-issued ID's are necessary to stop mail-in ballot voter fraud.
In order to prevent voter fraud on mail-in ballots, you must be able to (a) obtain the voter's ballot envelope with its identifying registration/voter-roll information; (b) forge a close enough signature of the voter rolls; and (c) know that the voter won't object or protest the missing ballot.
However, a State-issued ID will still not prevent this type of fraud, since there is no election official looking at the ID. So, in order to force them to present the ID, you must stop all mail-in ballots and drive everyone back into the polling stations. This includes all enlisted/military men, all people on vacation or travelling, all people hospitalized during Election Day, all students away at school, and all people for whatever reason are unable to travel to the polling places.​

Lastly, let us not forget several things. If you reasonably presume that there is in-person voter fraud that makes it all the way through the process, then you also have to presume that it is being done by both parties. Therefore, statistically, the net gain/loss is the difference multiplied by the % of voter population of each party. And that has to be great than the margin of votes for the winning candidate.

On the scales, the amount of improvement the State-issued ID provides does not outweigh the damage done.

Further, we've done nothing to examine the qualifications and integrity of such a State-issued ID, or identity theft, or the ability to obtain false ID's, all of which makes questionable the ability of the State-issued ID to serve the function purported... to stop voter-fraud.

Aside from all of that, the basic premise of your hypothetical assumes that our voting system lacks integrity. An assumption that lacks credence or credible evidence sufficient to even change a local election for dog-catcher.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StormfrontFL

TexanStar

Worshipped Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Posts
10,496
Media
0
Likes
14,978
Points
183
Location
Fort Worth (Texas, United States)
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
When it comes to votes, you have to decide: Do you want people to count equally, states to count equally, or some kind of hybrid compromise? We have the last of these; I think we should have the first. In a national election, why should state lines be considered at all?

Imo it works best if those who live and manage rural areas have a voice in government. Moving to strictly population based voting would eliminate that and all decisions would be made by the residents of the metroplexes. I don't trust us city folk to be in sole charge of managing the land that feeds us for example :p

The fact that all states have a minimum number of representatives keeps some smaller and/or more rural states with a worthwhile voice in the election to the extent that they will be paid some amount of attention by the candidates.

What I think is destructive to our Democracy is gerrymandering. I think nationally we would benefit greatly from a non-partisan review board that oversees districting. It doesn't have so much impact on presidential elections, but on day to day governance I think it contributes to our legislature being a complete and total shitshow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: slurper_la

phonehome

Superior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Posts
3,896
Media
0
Likes
4,277
Points
343
Gender
Male
Fine equally apply it to ALL forms of voting and don't pick and choose which forms of "government issued photo ID" will be accepted and which ones will not be based on who is most likely to have which kind and which way the holder of that ID is likely to vote as they did in NC, even paying for a study so they could inact their "surgical precision" and do not 'make it harder" for the people that do not have what ever forms of ID you decide on to get that ID than it needs to be all so that most likely that will just not be able to get that ID up and to include violating the court order of a federal judge as Scot Walker did is WI. .

Start with that I dare you.