Death Panels are inevitable in a public option

[B_VinylBoy]

ur 100% right.

i can't believe obama is selling this as a triumphant win for him.

the dems have conceded to EVERY demand of the republicans, just to pass SOMETHING.

I think the strategy they're going for is to pass something now and amend it later. Killing the bill and starting over may cause more harm than good. From a political standpoint, if the bill is not passed the opposition will use this as a catalyst in 2010 elections to say that Obama is a "do nothing" President (even though we knew their game plan was to be obstructionists from the very beginning). That could mean the loss of the majority, which would make things even more difficult to deal with in Congress for the administration.

As much as we want to think people can see through the rhetoric, time and time again it's proven that they cannot. Health Care has become such a big deal (thanks to the overhype it has received from both ends), that it's even overshadowed things like the Economy and the War. The current administration could catch Al Qaeda and help bring the unemployment rate down to 1% right now and people would not even care. Personally, I would rather see the Senate push something through and have it fail. We already know what message is going to be spread by the opposition if Health Care Reform doesn't go through, but at least at that point we could focus on all of the people who voted "no" (Democrat or Republican) and hold them accountable for its failure. At the same time, nobody could say with any level of honesty that the current administration didn't at least try to work with everyone (including their adversaries).

 

[thadjock]

if the bill is not passed the opposition will use this as a catalyst in 2010 elections .

exactly,

this bill has been castrated to be nothing more than campaign strategy.

we need a different system of government , one that isn't terminally gridlocked.

he might give himself a B+ but i give him a D-

he's proving his detractors right, he's more show than go.

 

[D_Smidley Smelliepits]

he's proving his detractors right, he's more show than go.

You're absolutely right... and it's a shame.

 

[Sergeant_Torpedo]

Some points need clearing up. The rich, well connected, politicians (and in one instance I know of the mother of the mistress of a Chief Constable) and sometimes the articulate well educated ae not subject to these strictures. Why keep some 80 year state pensioner alive after 50 years of hard, dirty, low paid work, when some fat arsed tart needs that money to have surgery for a gastric band. Blair and Thatcher and their American masters decree we return to the days of the poor house laws. You don't give a shit about the sick and poor, you will when they cart your parents off to the new model workhouse infirmiary.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

exactly,

this bill has been castrated to be nothing more than campaign strategy.

we need a different system of government , one that isn't terminally gridlocked.

he might give himself a B+ but i give him a D-

he's proving his detractors right, he's more show than go.

Which is precisely why they may need to just push the bill. The worse that could happen is that it passes, does little to change the status quo and then is amended over time... or they push for it, only for it to fail and then we can focus on those who declined it. But to start over would feed into the "more show than go" rhetoric because on the surface it would look like stalling... which is exactly what the opposition wanted to do in the first place.

As for grading him, I'm not basing his entire performance on one year's worth of work, nor on the passing of one bill regardless of how big it is. I didn't do this with any president before him, including Bush, so it would make no sense for me to start doing this now. I also know that it takes a hell of a lot more than just a year to do anything, even with a majority in the House & Senate. But I'm sure people will read this and assume that I'm a "blind Obama lover", forgetting that they also blamed me for thinking Obama had a magic wand that would fix everything during the election. And ironically, look at the people who are acting as if he was supposed to have one from the beginning? But I digress...

If one thing infuriates me about the current administration is their desperate need to work with "everyone". They're essentially acting like a DJ who tries to play music that everyone likes, knowing that some people will never be satisfied regardless of what he does. It doesn't take long to figure out who actually wants to work with you and who doesn't. They need to be more adamant to push things forward and take down names in the process if they get in the way. Bipartisanship is a nice idea, but when the opposition constantly votes no (with the exception of one or two at best) then you move on. At least then it could be said that a chance was given and they chose not to take it.

 

[thadjock]

As for grading him, I'm not basing his entire performance on one year's worth of work, nor on the passing of one bill regardless of how big it is. Obama had a magic wand that would fix everything during the election. And ironically, look at the people who are acting as if he was supposed to have one from the beginning? But I digress...

obama's report card:

the number of missteps on healthcare alone earns him a D-

then throw in the part where he basically just doubles down on bush's plan in afghanistan, giving the military what they want ( i mean really... we've been in afghanistan for 8 yrs gettin our ass kicked by a barefoot, rag tag militia using improvised everything, and all its gonna take fix that is dropping in another 30k marines and soldiers?)

i just wish for once McCrystal or Patreus would stand up and say:

"we have no fucking clue how to fight this this kind of war, we havent' figured it out in 8 yrs and we could be slogging it out for the next 20 years with ZERO improvement there"

but because his testicles won't let him say that, we're going to keep doing what we're doing till congress cuts off funding, or the boots on the ground figure out we don't have a plan, and tell their CO to go fuk himself the next time he orders up another raid.

i voted for obama and had high hopes he'd be transformational, but even if he gets this watered down healthcare bill passed, it won't matter in 2010 if there's still >10% unemployment. admittedly Pelosi and Reid are a huge part of the problem but it's obama's ballgame and he needs to start bringin it.

 

[DadsAreUs]

obama's report card:

the number of missteps on healthcare alone earns him a D-

then throw in the part where he basically just doubles down on bush's plan in afghanistan, giving the military what they want ( i mean really... we've been in afghanistan for 8 yrs gettin our ass kicked by a barefoot, rag tag militia using improvised everything, and all its gonna take fix that is dropping in another 30k marines and soldiers?)

i just wish for once McCrystal or Patreus would stand up and say:

"we have no fucking clue how to fight this this kind of war, we havent' figured it out in 8 yrs and we could be slogging it out for the next 20 years with ZERO improvement there"

but because his testicles won't let him say that, we're going to keep doing what we're doing till congress cuts off funding, or the boots on the ground figure out we don't have a plan, and tell their CO to go fuk himself the next time he orders up another raid.

i voted for obama and had high hopes he'd be transformational, but even if he gets this watered down healthcare bill passed, it won't matter in 2010 if there's still >10% unemployment. admittedly Pelosi and Reid are a huge part of the problem but it's obama's ballgame and he needs to start bringin it.

I can't think of anything to add to this list so I will just repeat it.

Oh no, wait. He hasn't repealed Don't Ask Don't Tell and he encouraged Maine voters to go the polls without telling them to vote against the Gay Marriage Ban.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Well, this is becoming yet another one of those "Obama sucks" threads.
Who would have guessed we would of had this many impatient people in America? Oh wait... he was supposed to do EVERYTHING in the first year and come through with every campaign promise in 365 days or less.

And honestly, if you think Obama is somehow against gays because he didn't repeal DADT or took some kind of stance that supported the Gay Marriage Ban, consider the alternatives. You think the letters DADT would have ever been mentioned if McCain/Palin were in office? You think we would of had ANY states voting on lifting or repealing Gay Marriage? America still can't even get over Adam Lambert's performance on the VMAs. What makes you think we're going to see Gay Marriage accepted everywhere in a year's time?

But I guess, I'm just making excuses for the man and not thinking rationally. After all, a President is in office for 4 years. Eight if he's lucky. And what happens in the first year is the only one that matters, right? Jeez...

 

[DadsAreUs]

i make excuses for him all the time. In fact, there is a part of my brain that is constantly spinning excuses for him but the fact is, he has disappointed on a lot of fronts. Not entirely, and he certainly is better than the alternative from the other side of the isle. But he ran as being actually good, not merely better than crap. As far as Obama being "against gays" is concerned, no, he's not against us. But he's not quite for us. He likes to include us in his speeches but he makes every effort to distance himself when he can.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Well, this is becoming yet another one of those "Obama sucks" threads.

LPSG truly is a representative microcosm of our society.

Ask around, increasing numbers of people are expressing the sentiment that "Obama Sucks."

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

LPSG truly is a representative microcosm of our society.

Ask around, increasing numbers of people are expressing the sentiment that "Obama Sucks."

Of whose society? America's? Your's?

I don't go around discussing large cocks with the average person. I find that the average person in MY society thinks that Obama is trying his best to deal with a bunch of partial, emotional, immature political dissenters in the House who trying to bring Obama down at the expense of America. Shame.

 

[Bavarian]

...but I can choose a different death panel (i.e. insurance provider).

The problem there is that if you change 'death panels,' everything you have when you make the change is a 'preexisting condition' that they don't have to pay to treat. After one company says, "We're not covering that," then 'that' is something that NO company will cover, even if they normally would, because you walked in the door with 'that' hanging over your head.

Sometimes you don't even get the choice. If you have employer-provided insurance, and they change providers, then you are forced to change companies, (well, you could simply refuse to go with employer-provided insurance, but that's an even less appealing option) and everything you were getting money to treat under the old plan is now your problem and yours alone. It's even dangerous to get a physical check-up before a policy review, in case you're discovered to have something show up before the new policy kicks in; once it's known, it's pre-existing.

 

[thadjock]

LPSG truly is a representative microcosm of our society.

Ask around, increasing numbers of people are expressing the sentiment that "Obama Sucks."

i never said he suks, he's on academic probation, he can still pull it out next semester, but he's gotta apply himself.

 

[deleted15807]

Mentioning "death panels" is a clever way to exploit this fear in order to further the anti-social-healthcare agenda.

The Right LOVES getting fucked by rich companies. All day and all night orgasms. But when they 'think' government is fucking them they don't like it. I just can't figure it out. Even as we sit with the biggest financial debacle since the Great Depression every single Republican and 22 Democrats voted against any kind of reform. They simply want to get fucked some more.

 

[DadsAreUs]

For the record, I never said he sucks either. He's just performing very disappointingly. And it's not just that he appears to lack the requisite skills for the job (although he might grow into the position) but he promised no Clinton style triangulation and it seems that's actually what we are getting. If he's going to flounder for a while, he should at least do so while going for gold.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I don't go around discussing large cocks with the average person. I find that the average person in MY society thinks that Obama is trying his best to deal with a bunch of partial, emotional, immature political dissenters in the House who trying to bring Obama down at the expense of America. Shame.

That's my view.
I like Obama, I think he has vision, and what he wants to achieve would be good for America.

On the other hand, I more and more get the sense that the man can't get no traction.
The president has to be able to provide vision, sure ... but he also has to be able to use a big stick when necessary.

Lyndon Johnson was a damn effective president because he could cajole people brilliantly, but could also scare the bejesus out of scarable politicos.
(It helped that he had been majority leader in the Senate and knew all the levers better than anyone in Washington.)
Obama? He just glows a lot and looks like a very nice man.

Top marks there for compassion.
But as a leader, you've gotta balance compassion with spine.
I'm not sure that he knows that, nor that he can do it.
And I wonder if it won't very shortly be too late to rewrite this script.

All this expresses my fears and not my hopes.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Of whose society? America's? Your's?
I find that the average person in MY society thinks that Obama is trying his best ...

What flavor is the Jello at the asylum today?

I haven't seen any reports of the opinion of Obama increasing in any demographic.


Though I do enjoy how Obama is now setting things up to blame our country's economic downfall on the lack of Healthcare reform! Does he really think anyone will buy that? Time to dig out the Global Warming TinFoil Hat crowd to cook these books!

 

[D_Tully Tunnelrat]

The Right LOVES getting fucked by rich companies. All day and all night orgasms. But when they 'think' government is fucking them they don't like it. I just can't figure it out.

Ironically there is a French psychologist cum advertising guru, who's name I cannot recall at present, who had one of the best explanations for this continual and uniquely American distrust of our own duly elected government. He called it not killing the King. The idea is that because the Colonists never killed the King, only expelling him, they never assumed the collective mantle of authority. I think there is some truth to his theory, which I am only doing scant justice to with my truncated version.

The endless focus on end of life care (death panels) is really a red herring. The primary issue for most Americans is that they are out of shape, and require assistance getting back into, and maintaining some form of physical fitness/proper diet.

I could go on about how the food industry has ruined the health of modern American, but won't as there are many books, two good ones by Michael Pollan, already on this super sized subject.

Basic physical fitness standards should be the starting point of the health care discussion in America. Once the NIH, or the President's Council on Physical Fitness (anyone else remember them?) re-establish strict guidelines for physical fitness, which is a really inexpensive first step, then hopefully an intelligent discussion about removing health care/insurance from employment can begin. Followed by determining a system for independent assessment of risk profiles for individuals, and groups, subsidies for those who cannot afford mandatory insurance (which can substitute for, or negate the need for a public option...), and finally trying to answer difficult questions regarding efficacy of end of life care, which covers the shortest percentage of most people's lives, but is the most expensive, and therefore skews the cost basis for the entire system.

Unfortunately, as well intentioned as the proponents of the current health care bill might be, they reform very little about the current system, which everyone agrees is broken. Even Howard Dean, hardly a right wing meshuga, came out against it, on Vermont Public Radio, today.

"This is essentially the collapse of health care reform in the United States Senate. And, honestly, the best thing to do right now is kill the Senate bill and go back to the House … You have the vast majority of Americans want the choices, they want real choices. They don’t have them in this bill. This is not health care reform and it’s not close to health care reform."

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Of whose society? America's? Your's?
I find that the average person in MY society thinks that Obama is trying his best ...

What flavor is the Jello at the asylum today?
I haven't seen any reports of the opinion of Obama increasing in any demographic.

I don't know what you mean by "opinion increasing," but maybe you were referring to something like improvement of his approval rating.
But you seem to be responding to rex.
And he makes no mention of any improvement of approval rating.
???

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

I'm quite seriously starting to see a strong direct correlation between insanity and anti-Obama sentiment.