Define "straight, open-minded"

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by Imported, Dec 5, 2003.

  1. Imported

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    belcurv: Doesn't the term "straight, open-minded", used in a lot of personal ads, mean basically that the person is open to some same-sex contact? I'm seeing it more and more in the context of "gay, lesbian, bi, transgender and straight openminded". I think a lot of people who consider themselves strictly "heterosexual" confuse the term with "gay friendly" or have some other completely diffferent read of it. Occasionally you see someone saying "strictly straight but openminded..." which sounds like a completely different interpretation of it. But I always thought it was normally used as a code word for, "well, I'm a straight dude, but since it feels really good and guys have bigger mouths and throats and know how to fellate better, I'll let the other male blow me as long as I don't have to reciprocate, kiss or show affection like I would to a woman."
    What do you think?
     
  2. Imported

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    belcurv: OR, it could mean just the opposite, that a person will show affection, maybe even kissing, the same sex partner, BUT won't have any kind of sexual contact.
     
  3. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    Most straight dudes that I know who use the term open-minded to describe themselves simply mean that they're not uncomfortable being around or socialzing with gay men. They're not homophobic or afraid that all us 'homos' are going to make at pass at them simply because they have dicks. The open-minded label does not usually imply that they're open to sexual advances by other men; open-minded and bi-curious are not synonymous. I'd say that most of the straight men on this board are open-minded. There have been a few homophobic remarks at LPSG, but they're few and far between. If a straight, open-minded man here has a different definition, I'd be interested in reading it.
     
  4. Imported

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    belcurv: That makes sense, "open-minded" vs. "bi curious." But the reason I ask it is because I've replied to a few ads from the self-described well-hung "straight open-minded" and they distinguish themselves from "bi curious" in that they don't want to kiss or show affection or get into a relationship with the other man, as someone identifying as "bi" would often do, but are open to the "hot sex" of having another male service his cock. I always thought what you are describing was "gay friendly".
     
  5. benderten2001

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    To my way of thinking,
    DMW has summed this up well. VERY well! ;)

    That term "open-minded" (for me) says that I am willing to listen (and quite often LEARN!) from others of different sexual orientations. It does not imply I am necessarily always accepting of their decisions or their behavior nor would I be comfortable in welcoming or encouraging any "advances" towards me personally.

    If anything, by "open-minded" I would want to convey a willingness to get along with everyone as I can and not pass along undue, even (quite often) cruel judgments upon others, like many of my generation (unfortunately) have.
     
  6. D_Martin van Burden

    D_Martin van Burden Account Disabled

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    But there are two types of open-mindedness. The first one is the obvious connotation that's already been discussed: that the straight guys on this group aren't negatively affected by their bi and gay counterparts, and that they are willing and able to engage in online conversations without any sort of awkwardness or hesitation. The fact is, these open-minded men have no qualms about discussing endowments, sex, etc. with anyone on the board, straight or not. This open-mindedness lends its contribution to having such a tightly-knit board; we all get along really well.

    But if you're a straight guy who has had any sort of sexual experience with a guy and have developed a pretty good understanding and contextual meaning on what you've done and how you feel about it, then that's open-mindedness of a different sort. The way I look at it, I can't deny that I've had my "experimentation" (or whatever you want to call it). In retrospect, I look back on those times rather fondly; I mean, I'm not weirded out by what I've done, I can admit that it felt pretty damn good, and I don't hate myself for it. I think open-mindedness starts evolving into bi-curiosity when there is a lingering engagement to do these sexual acts, and to perhaps explore same-sex relationships on a different level.

    That said, if a guy willingly involves himself in an MMF threesome once, he's probably open-minded. I'm sure he can go so far as touching and pleasing the guy; how he looks at himself after the fact indicates how he dealt with his behavior. If he feels negative or feels simply "okay" about it, that's one thing. If he really likes it and it further piques his interest in exploring same-sex relations more, that might be bi-curiosity. If he gets the emotional component and starts dating and seeing men, he's probably not curious anymore.
     
  7. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    Excellent points, Dee; I agree. I was simply expressing that when we hear a man described himself as straight, but open-minded, we shouldn't assume that's his way of saying that he's looking for a sexual experience with another man. If that's what he wants, there are a lot of less ambiguous ways to phrase it.
     
  8. B_RoysToy

    B_RoysToy New Member

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    Great, informative discourse on often misunderstood concepts, guys. Thanks for posing the questions, belcurv, and thanks for the clarifications, Double and Dee.

    Luke
     
  9. Imported

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    7x6andchg: Well said as usual Benderten, DMW, and Dee. I have nothing to add but my affirmation for their responses.
     
  10. Imported

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    belcurv: [quote author=DoubleMeatWhopper link=board=relationships;num=1070638676;start=0#6 date=12/06/03 at 09:36:01]...when we hear a man described himself as straight, but open-minded, we shouldn't assume that's his way of saying that he's looking for a sexual experience with another man. If that's what he wants, there are a lot of less ambiguous ways to phrase it. [/quote]

    Well, back to the point that I've found when communicating with men calling themselves "straight, openminded" on swinger boards: they almost always indicate that they are open to limited sexual contact with another male, but not usually in the same affectionate way as someone self described as "straight" would with women, or someone self described as "gay" or "bi" would with another man.

    If "gay" or "straight" are defined as "affectional preference", and "bi" is basically "no affectional preference", rather than merely "sexual orientation," then "straight openminded" or "straight very openminded", at least in the CONTEXT of a swinger personal, seems to consistently hint that some same-sex sex is okay.

    In other contexts, "openminded" retains its traditional dictionary denotation as Doublemeat and benderten. Though, as someone who has done some helping out with gay/lesbian/bi political activism and publishing at times, it seems to me the term "gay friendly" has been the more unmistakable one.

    I ask about this because I've always hated any labels, but sometimes thought "okay, I guess I'm bi". But more recently, learning that there are a lot of guys like me who tend to have a strong affectional preference for women but can equally enjoy some sex with men, might benefit from a term that distinguishes us, and I kind of like the "straight openminded" idea. I always found that with men calling themselves "gay", I never felt at all in synch; with "bi" men, sort of but not quite; with "straight openminded" men...bingo.

    In fact, it's the ambiguity of NOT accounting for this category that has resulted in no sex with men for a long time! Has been too hard to figure out who would be potentially compatible without this shorthand.
     
  11. Imported

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    drambone: To add a rather light comment - and pardon me if this sounds flip - I've always thought "straight but open-minded means I'm normally straight but bi-curious if you're attractive and I've had a few drinks!

    (lol)
     
  12. B_RoysToy

    B_RoysToy New Member

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    Yeah, reminds me of the answer to "Do you know the difference between Str8 and gay?"

    "A half dozen beers!"
     
  13. Imported

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    dable_wi: I am squarely with Dee on this one. Thanks, Dee

    The categorization, however, is a difficult thing to for an individual to apply. A guy who indicates his "straightness with an open mind" crosses a line when his open-mindedness turns into action. Then it is no longer in the mind. but he is faced with another decision point, were his experiences supportive or destructive of his inclincations? It is up to him...

    What does he do with them? the matrix epands, blah, blah, blah,,,.... (beyond that, another decision point, ...)

    My two-cents worth: I have had really great experiences with women and with men. I have had really, really, bad experiences with women and with men. Honestly, from my experiences, I don't know that the sex/copulation part of intimacy is all that gender-different. So, am I "straight, AND open-minded," straight, BUT open-minded," or, "straight IN SPITE OF BEING open-minded?"

    The last ones I ever want to ask are my former partners :)

    Back to the original question: Belcurv, would there be a problem with asking the individual what they mean by that label? <HMMM> if they answer, post it.

    Good thread :)
     
  14. Imported

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    tracksuitboy: [quote author=RoysToy link=board=relationships;num=1070638676;start=0#11 date=12/09/03 at 10:51:47]Yeah, reminds me of the answer to "Do you know the difference between Str8 and gay?"

    "A half dozen beers!"[/quote]
    As many as half a dozen? Three or four should do it!
    :D
     
  15. Imported

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    belcurv: [quote author=dable_wi link=board=relationships;num=1070638676;start=0#12 date=12/13/03 at 21:37:05]Back to the original question: Belcurv, would there be a problem with asking the individual what they mean by that label?  <HMMM> if they answer, post it.   :)[/quote]

    I think the context's the thing. As I said, the guys who advertise on swinger sites with this description almost invariably are open to sex with (or more usually, sexual service from) men... At a GLBT group on campus, it's more likely to mean openminded in the denotative sense. But it's a byproduct of whether "straight" refers to affectional preference or sexual orientation. For those who see identity as affectional, then having sex with another male is possible while still remaining "straight."

    At some point, I predict we will look back on this short period in the history of humans when the terms "straight" and "gay" were not only used with a straight face but paranoiacally adhered to as laughable. In 200 years, nobody will believe anyone really limited themselves to either category.
    :p
     
  16. D_Martin van Burden

    D_Martin van Burden Account Disabled

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    [quote author=dable_wi link=board=relationships;num=1070638676;start=0#12 date=12/13/03 at 21:37:05]Honestly,  from my experiences, I don't know that the sex/copulation part of intimacy is all that gender-different.   So, am I "straight, AND open-minded," straight, BUT open-minded," or, "straight IN SPITE OF BEING open-minded?"[/quote]

    Good quote -- it evoked a thought.

    I can say the same thing with respect to my experiences with men and women. I've had high points. I've had low ones. Good times and bad, I've learned a lot along the way. I think the straight/open-minded situation hits the peak when you learn to accept your experiences as they are, without doubting, questioning, or feeling awkward or guilty about what you've done.

    How 'bout this? Sorry, ladies, but if I figure up the number of blowjobs I've had from both guys and girls, and I rated them accordingly, guys almost consistently score higher in their ability. (Of course, I would make the same argument for women -- try as we might, I think women might have a higher chance of satisfying other women orally.) Here's the thing. I'm pretty comfortable accepting that fact for what it is; after all, my experience backs it up. Now, if I were to say this fact to someone else -- or even to acknowledge that these experiences might hold up consistently for other people -- that modifier changes.

    I might be "straight AND open-minded" if I accept what I've done, experiences and all, for myself. If I start pulling other people into my interpretations of sexuality and what not... things change. For instance, if I'm perusing some swinger's ads and am relatively new to experiencing men -- depending on how I engage the man in a threesome, for example...

    "Straight BUT open-minded" = Look, man. Your wife's pretty hot and I don't mind tagging her with you. In fact, if we touch a little, it's no big -- just know I'm more into the wife than you, no offense.

    "Straight IN SPITE OF BEING open-minded" = Hmmmm... well... yeah, I kissed you... no big deal, man.

    (I don't know. That one was way tougher.)

    Ok, fact is, I'm pretty honest about all the wild stuff I've done while I was away in undergraduate years. Those made for some awesome memories. I had done strange and wild things for sure, but I think that made me realize that it's cool to be uninhibited and to have fun with whatever comes along the way -- make the most of it. Not to tell on myself too much here, but I've been drunk plenty of times -- played stripping games, streaked, shown the goods, took Truth or Dare a little too far, and had a lot of respect for my buds who also said, "What the hell?" and went along with it. I thank each and every bud I've had the strange and humorous pleasure of playing tonsil hockey with.

    Sometimes it's just fun to burst past your personal barriers.
     
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