Defunding Police...your Thoughts

swingfun

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So if we start defunding PDs because of the actions of the clowns in mineapolis is this a good idea? Whats the end game of greatly shrinking or all together eliminating police forces across the country? It all seems to be pandering to some violent groups in a failed attempt to appease them. It never works. I'm sure many here will disagree but I'd like an honest conversation with facts..not feels.
 

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Would you say the system we have, and have had works to protect everyone equally? At this point any reform could be considered pandering to a certain group because that is how reform works. However reform is only possible when the institution honors the needs of the individual not the needs of the institution in this case being the Police/Prisons. If you close ranks and block accountability you are not welcoming reform you are trying to weather it.
 

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I think the word “defunding” is getting thrown around a lot, partly by those protesting, but also partly by those who want to present the protestors as extreme and unhinged.

As I understand it, many are calling for government at various levels to look into reallocating funds that go toward militarization of the police, or toward their performing various kinds of social work they’re not necessarily trained to handle. Can a portion of that money be redirected in ways that removes some of that burden, so police don’t have to take on duties they never signed up for, and more qualified professionals can intervene instead?
 

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So if we start defunding PDs because of the actions of the clowns in mineapolis is this a good idea? Whats the end game of greatly shrinking or all together eliminating police forces across the country? It all seems to be pandering to some violent groups in a failed attempt to appease them. It never works. I'm sure many here will disagree but I'd like an honest conversation with facts..not feels.
Name one Elected Official who is advocating for eliminating police forces across the country.
 

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I believe the Minneapolis city council was calling for that..until the mayor stepped in. As an example last night a city not far from me..Norman OK. voted to defund the police by 850,000.00 and "reallocate" this money to other areas. An auditor and the rest to be determined later. I don't know about you but outside of taking care of myself with no police or severely understaffed departments who do i call for assistance?
 
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AlZana

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As someone who lives in Minneapolis, I’m aware that so many people here want real change. It’s seems believable and real the possibility and that feeling isn’t one to run from. They are ready to step up and be accountable and meet their community from a level playing field. The argument against Police is the argument against unchecked power, not individuals who put their lives on the line to protect the people they care about. However when your job becomes about making arrest quotas, escalating altercations, and targeting low income individuals, all while not challenging personal and societal racial inequities you can not, and will not hold justice as your compass. Defund the police = Defund unchecked power. We wouldn’t be having this discussion if they had done it all correctly already.
 

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Would you say the system we have, and have had works to protect everyone equally? At this point any reform could be considered pandering to a certain group because that is how reform works. However reform is only possible when the institution honors the needs of the individual not the needs of the institution in this case being the Police/Prisons. If you close ranks and block accountability you are not welcoming reform you are trying to weather it.
i have no problem with holding guilty partys accountable. The four goons in Minneapolis are a good example. They will have their day in court. I agree that police should not "investigate" themselves. Thats what the DA is for to investigate wrongdoing. Do you think its ok to go rioting and burning everytime you feel wronged? I still feel its pandering when you try to give in to outrageous demands.
 
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swingfun

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As someone who lives in Minneapolis, I’m aware that so many people here want real change. It’s seems believable and real the possibility and that feeling isn’t one to run from. They are ready to step up and be accountable and meet their community from a level playing field. The argument against Police is the argument against unchecked power, not individuals who put their lives on the line to protect the people they care about. However when your job becomes about making arrest quotas, escalating altercations, and targeting low income individuals, all while not challenging personal and societal racial inequities you can not, and will not hold justice as your compass. Defund the police = Defund unchecked power. We wouldn’t be having this discussion if they had done it all correctly already.
So because a few cops have done wrong they are ALL like that? I agree some cops shouldn't be doing the job. The cop in question has been in trouble before for sxcessive forse. This time it was caught on video and its in the hands of the court.
 
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AlZana

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I believe the Minneapolis city council was calling for that..until the mayor stepped in. As an example last night a city not far from me..Norman OK. voted to defund the police by 850,000.00 and "reallocate" this money to other areas. An auditor and the rest to be determined later. I don't know about you but outside of taking care of myself with no police or severely understaffed departments who do i call for assistance?


Before the police, you members of your own community would be responsible for
I believe the Minneapolis city council was calling for that..until the mayor stepped in. As an example last night a city not far from me..Norman OK. voted to defund the police by 850,000.00 and "reallocate" this money to other areas. An auditor and the rest to be determined later. I don't know about you but outside of taking care of myself with no police or severely understaffed departments who do i call for assistance?

It would
i have no problem with holding guilty partys accountable. The four goons in Minneapolis are a good example. They will have their day in court. I agree that police should not "investigate" themselves. Thats what the DA is for to investigate wrongdoing. Do you think its ok to go rioting and burning everytime you feel wronged? I still feel its pandering when you try to give in to outrageous demands.

The issue of accountability has definitely permitted the highest levels of executive power wouldn’t you agree? We have to start from the bottom, the direct enforcers of the law are a fraternity, unionized, and staunchly determined to not lose their grip on authority. Think of what it took for them to be held accountable in the case of George Floyd. This avoidance of accountability was not by accident. It’s planned and practiced, and rooted into our everyday lives. This is not the first time a Black person has been killed without a day in court , does that harsh reality not humble you?
 

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So because a few cops have done wrong they are ALL like that? I agree some cops shouldn't be doing the job. The cop in question has been in trouble before for sxcessive forse. This time it was caught on video and its in the hands of the court.

The first time should have been enough to end his career, yet it wasn’t. This is just one Cop, think of how many others have a history. If this wasn’t a days long news fixation would you have known about those other instances? We should be appalled that it has taken this long to find out who exactly the people enforcing the law are and we haven’t even scratched the surface.

They only seek to learn our name when they take us in, but how many Cops are you on a first name basis with? People from our community, who know us would be better judges of our character, would be more in tune and capable of de-escalating then an outsider with a gun and permission to kill and no accountability.
 

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As I understand it, many are calling for government at various levels to look into reallocating funds that go toward militarization of the police, or toward their performing various kinds of social work they’re not necessarily trained to handle. Can a portion of that money be redirected in ways that removes some of that burden, so police don’t have to take on duties they never signed up for, and more qualified professionals can intervene instead?

This is exactly spot on.
The militarization got a big boost with post-9/11 funding when every cop from the NYPD to Barney Fife was expected to be a counter-terrorism force. And it just kept on keepin' on.

Cops aren't social workers, nor are they drug & alcohol counselors (although the folks who are hatin' on the police probably have no frickin' idea how progressive police response has become regarding people with substance use disorders), nor are they trained to be teachers, mental health counselors, mentors, coaches, surrogate parents, a shoulder to cry on, even though we expect them to be all of those things while they're wearing bullet proof vests.

Maybe we should flip the script and arm the social workers. They're typically young college grads with bright agendas who are literally walking into serious shit with no training on how to protect themselves or the people they're there to help. They can use some literal firepower in their hands.
 
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AlZana

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This is exactly spot on.
The militarization got a big boost with post-9/11 funding when every cop from the NYPD to Barney Fife was expected to be a counter-terrorism force. And it just kept on keepin' on.

Cops aren't social workers, nor are they drug & alcohol counselors (although the folks who are hatin' on the police probably have no frickin' idea how progressive police response has become regarding people with substance use disorders), nor are they trained to be teachers, mental health counselors, mentors, coaches, surrogate parents, a shoulder to cry on, even though we expect them to be all of those things while they're wearing bullet proof vests.

Maybe we should flip the script and arm the social workers. They're typically young college grads with bright agendas who are literally walking into serious shit with no training on how to protect themselves or the people they're there to help. They can use some literal firepower in their hands.

“Fire Power” has been ineffective on a myriad of social issues that the inequalities of our current system continues to perpetuate. You want to live in a different world you got to lay the foundations on solid ground. If you’re defense is rooted in fire power being given to the wrong people I would remind you that it currently is, especially for unprotected individuals, such as Trans and POC individuals. It will take dedication to get a product we can truly be proud of. They want respect for the badge? Then you earn it, honestly. Does your doctor have to have a gun for you to take their recommendations seriously? No. They spend years of their life to learning how act with precision... you trust them because they made a commitment to help people and have the experience to back it up.
 

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For years I have "defunded" police and county sheriff's departments by voting against their ballot propositions for funding increases.

When their systemic organizational racism & classism, militarization, legal impunity and other bad behaviors end I will be glad to vote for their requests.
 

AlZana

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“Fire Power” has been ineffective on a myriad of social issues that the inequalities of our current system continues to perpetuate. You want to live in a different world you got to lay the foundations on solid ground. If you’re defense is rooted in fire power being given to the wrong people I would remind you that it currently is, especially for unprotected individuals, such as Trans and POC individuals. It will take dedication to get a product we can truly be proud of. They want respect for the badge? Then you earn it, honestly. Does your doctor have to have a gun for you to take their recommendations seriously? No. They spend years of their life to learning how act with precision... you trust them because they made a commitment to help people and have the experience to back it up.

Besides the training it takes to be a cop is brief in comparison to the job they are undertaking.
 

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Besides the training it takes to be a cop is brief in comparison to the job they are undertaking.

I agree. All LEOs should have at least an associates degree in law enforcement. Most get a few months of police academy and that's it. It should be a professional degree with boards, licensure and ongoing professional development (CPD).

If we had a national health which tracked and cared for all with mental health issues an enormous burden would be lifted off law enforcement and the courts. But no. It's sink-or-swim America under the profit motive for the health care and pharmaceutical industries.
 

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deleted15807

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Well, if you want to see what a neutered police department looks like come to Minneapolis.
Minneapolis Police Department Reports Increased Hostility Toward Officers
11 people shot in 1 incident with at least 5 total last night.
I'm glad I don't live there and I sure as hell won't be going there anytime soon. For Christ's sake it's like the wild west there.

Neutered? I guess someone didn’t think executing someone on video for 8 minutes would look bad beamed out over the internet. Need to grab those cell phone cameras first then get back to business executing black people.
 

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