Defunding Police...your Thoughts

[A_Wayward_Waffle]

Portland DA Won’t Pursue Charges Against Most Protesters
August 11, 2020
PORTLAND, Ore. (CN) — Most of the approximately 550 people arrested in Portland, Oregon, since May 29 in protests against police brutality and systemic racism won’t be prosecuted, Multnomah County District Attorney Mike Schmidt announced Tuesday.

Just 11 days into his new term as elected district attorney, Schmidt announced Tuesday that his office will decline to prosecute cases related to the protests that do not involve violence, theft, or deliberate property damage. His office will not pursue charges of disorderly conduct, interfering with a police officer, criminal trespass and most charges of rioting. There will be no change in how prosecutors handle cases like arson and assault.

Schmidt said Tuesday that the policy was an attempt to “create a forum” for Portlanders to express their “collective grief, anger and frustration” about the death of George Floyd, a Black man killed by a white Minneapolis police officer who kneeled on his neck for nearly nine minutes, and about “the countless other abuses people of color have endured in our country throughout history.

“As prosecutors, we acknowledge the depth of emotion that motivates these demonstrations and support those who are civically engaged through peaceful protesting,” Schmidt said at a Tuesday press conference. “We recognize that we will undermine public safety, not promote it, if we leverage the force of our criminal justice system against peaceful protestors who are demanding to be heard.”
Portland DA Won't Pursue Charges Against Most Protesters

Yeah our new DA is pretty dope. he's still transitioning too.
goes to show that his priority is the community he serves

 

[bar4doug]

Actually it wouldn’t be any different to anyone signing up to be a police officer. As long as they know what they're getting themselves into then it wouldn't be a problem. But a de-escalator would actually fall into police territory. Reallocating police funds has been the only true solution I've seen so far. I know others like to present police reform. But that has been promised many times over and it hasn't worked. Look at New York. They banned choke holds as an attempt to reform, but we still have police officers choking people out and killing them. Now Arizona police are threatening to arrest people who film police officers. So we need something that will break the wheel and give change. Reallocating funds can do that. Funding programs that can handle things that the police can't.

Re-allocating police funds. What does that actually mean? Reduction of the police force by attrition? I see it that you'll need police, or people will begin to take matters into their own hands.

Once those who intend to harm others realize that:
1. The police aren't going to stop them, to prevent a lawsuit
2. The DA won't prosecute them

they are just going to continue doing this:
https://nypost.com/2020/08/10/nypd-...r-as-11-year-old-is-beaten-in-broad-daylight/

One more reason not to live in a city anymore...

 

[bar4doug]

Yeah I have a friend that loved Trump's tax cuts as his business of running five restaurants was doing bang up business with soaring profits. I was aghast as he implied his support of the pussy grabber. Then coronavirus hit and thanks to Trump's spectacular failure in handling it his business is decimated, employees laid off indefinitely, three homes are now gone. And he has no idea when he'll ever make a living again. It's not taxes that are the problem.

If he was running five restaurants, I wouldn't consider him middle-class. I am sure the loss of business traffic was a direct result of all the president's failure's, and is the reason why international borders are closed, industries across the globe are decimated, and people are not comfortable being out in large groups... let alone spend hours indoors with strangers where almost anyone in the room could be an asymptomatic carrier.

Retail is leaving the big city. Restaurants are not coming back. If your business was based on foot traffic and tourists, it's time to rethink you career. If you worked in these places, you need to re-think this, too. High rents and high taxes were a large chunk of an establishment's liabilities before COVID. They were masked by a booming economy. There is no longer anything to mask.

We can take the Covid back to the Covid thread.

 

[bar4doug]

How is wanting the police to do their jobs correctly political motivated ? There is nothing political about not wanting people who are supposed to be protected by the police to die at the hands of police. No sane empathetic person would say that the police deserve a pay increase after they've murdered an unarmed human beings. I wouldn't say blatant racism is a difference of opinion.

The problem is the good ones will leave for a job in the private sector, and the force will be left with the lesser performing part of the class. I would guess that the contracts most police unions sign with the municipalities that pay them stipulate raises for all, or raises for none - no cherry picking. So of course the bad apples will get raises...

 

[bar4doug]

You seem not to understand that anyone can look up the status of my nursing license, it will show If there have been any complaints, discipline etc. If you knew my name you would be able to check that here:
Check a nursing license

There is nothing similar for a police officer.

Do you think the reason for the lack of transparency is the contract the police union signed with the municipality?

 

[Nigel Atkinson]

Re-allocating police funds. What does that actually mean? Reduction of the police force by attrition? I see it that you'll need police, or people will begin to take matters into their own hands.

Once those who intend to harm others realize that:
1. The police aren't going to stop them, to prevent a lawsuit
2. The DA won't prosecute them

they are just going to continue doing this:
https://nypost.com/2020/08/10/nypd-...r-as-11-year-old-is-beaten-in-broad-daylight/

One more reason not to live in a city anymore...

Re-allocating police funds means taking a portion of police funding and using it to fund new organizations that would take a portion of police calls and situations that the police aren't properly trained to handle. The police don't stop crime now. They react to it and aid in prosecution of crimes.

 

[Jjz1109]

And an amazing story of one of the million law enforcement who puts their lives on the line every day. . .

[URL="https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/lodi/lodi-officer-pulls-man-from-path-of-oncoming-train/103-671b7dd9-6aee-4287-bb7a-081964b38d95"]Watch this: Lodi police officer's bodycam captures heroic rescue of man caught in path of train[/URL]
https://www.lodinews.com/news/article_c8867e9e-dcd4-11ea-bc9d-9bd1ae4cdaa4.html
Veteran Lodi officer’s heroic actions save man from oncoming train

 

[Industrialsize]

And an amazing story of one of the million law enforcement who puts their lives on the line every day. . .
Watch this: Lodi police officer's bodycam captures heroic rescue of man caught in path of train
Veteran Lodi officer’s heroic actions save man from oncoming train

I saw that. Lovely story. Police sometimes do heroic things and should be commended. Totally irrelevant to the topic of the thread.

 

[Jjz1109]

I saw that. Lovely story. Police sometimes do heroic things and should be commended. Totally irrelevant to the topic of the thread.

No, it isn’t irrelevant to the topic of the thread. In fact, it’s spot on. Many have lost sight of what the police do for us on a daily basis, putting their lives on the line, in this anti-police, defunding, cancel culture for the small number who are the “bad apples” (to quote another poster). I’m sure this gentleman whose life was saved by this heroic policewoman who risked her life was glad the defunding hasn’t hit small town Lodi, California yet.

Note. Your slight comment that police “sometimes do heroic things and should be commended” is offensive to the good work the overwhelming majority of police do on a daily basis. No surprise that you take the opportunity to minimize their hard work.

 

[bar4doug]

Re-allocating police funds means taking a portion of police funding and using it to fund new organizations that would take a portion of police calls and situations that the police aren't properly trained to handle. The police don't stop crime now. They react to it and aid in prosecution of crimes.

What functions / calls currently handled by the police department that they are not trained to handle do you suggest be given to other, new entities? Be specific as you can.

Stopping crime.. Well, that metric depends on how you define "stop".

Does the presence of a police officer deter someone from committing a crime? Then someone could consider that stopping crime. And the only chance a police officer has to prevent a crime is to be at the right place at the right time. And even then, what an officer is legally able to do in a land where everyone is innocent until they are proven guilty will always be up to debate.

Planet Earth is not "Minority Report".

 

[Nigel Atkinson]

What functions / calls currently handled by the police department that they are not trained to handle do you suggest be given to other, new entities? Be specific as you can.

Stopping crime.. Well, that metric depends on how you define "stop".

Does the presence of a police officer deter someone from committing a crime? Then someone could consider that stopping crime. And the only chance a police officer has to prevent a crime is to be at the right place at the right time. And even then, what an officer is legally able to do in a land where everyone is innocent until they are proven guilty will always be up to debate.

Planet Earth is not "Minority Report".

All the situations and which unarmed/innocent people are killed or harmed. Situations in which it is clear that the police are profiling and abusing their authority. It's funny that you mentioned minority report because that's how y'all are acting like the police work. The presence of police in today's world isn't really deterring crime like so many of y'all may believe. If someone is hell bent on doing something, then they are going to do it whether the police are there or not.

 

[Industrialsize]

What functions / calls currently handled by the police department that they are not trained to handle do you suggest be given to other, new entities? Be specific as you can.

Stopping crime.. Well, that metric depends on how you define "stop".

Does the presence of a police officer deter someone from committing a crime? Then someone could consider that stopping crime. And the only chance a police officer has to prevent a crime is to be at the right place at the right time. And even then, what an officer is legally able to do in a land where everyone is innocent until they are proven guilty will always be up to debate.

Planet Earth is not "Minority Report".

Anecdote:
In the last three cities in which I've lived I've unfortunately had the occasion to call 911 for an ambulance for a medical emergency. Why did a police cruiser arrive with the ambulance every time?

 

[A_Wayward_Waffle]

No, it isn’t irrelevant to the topic of the thread. In fact, it’s spot on. Many have lost sight of what the police do for us on a daily basis, putting their lives on the line, in this anti-police, defunding, cancel culture for the small number who are the “bad apples” (to quote another poster). I’m sure this gentleman whose life was saved by this heroic policewoman who risked her life was glad the defunding hasn’t hit small town Lodi, California yet.

Note. Your slight comment that police “sometimes do heroic things and should be commended” is offensive to the good work the overwhelming majority of police do on a daily basis. No surprise that you take the opportunity to minimize their hard work.

Yes it is. They are not fighting wars, they are not risking their lives every day. Loggers are 9 times more likely to be killed than a police officer. Pilots and Flight engineers are 5 times more likely to die.

Now lets talk about the number of times that police forces kill an innocent citizen. How many lives have they taken last year alone? 999 innocent people were killed by police. How many people get harassed by police each year? how many folks in California have been erroneously entered into the gang registry, despite no evidence that they were, and as a result were unable to find jobs, housing, or apply for support?

Yes, Sometimes police do heroic things and should be commended, but there is a lot more negative shit that they do and continue to do when called out. Not surprising you take the opportunity to completely ignore that fact, after all you seem to avoid responding to anything that actually proves you wrong.

This thread is about defunding the police.
Defunding
what does that word mean?
taking some of the the excessive funding they receive and redirecting it to other services that aim to provide some of the same services that we ask of police, despite police not having the training or education to handle those situations.

why don't you just be honest and say what you mean, instead of trying to find bullshit excuses.

 

[A_Wayward_Waffle]

Re-allocating police funds. What does that actually mean? Reduction of the police force by attrition? I see it that you'll need police, or people will begin to take matters into their own hands.

Once those who intend to harm others realize that:
1. The police aren't going to stop them, to prevent a lawsuit
2. The DA won't prosecute them

they are just going to continue doing this:
https://nypost.com/2020/08/10/nypd-...r-as-11-year-old-is-beaten-in-broad-daylight/

One more reason not to live in a city anymore...

oh right cause that article toooootally supports your claims.
the police are literally not doing their jobs to Protest a ban on chokeholds...

Top NYPD officials have also spoken out against the local reform, calling it dangerous, but have denied a slowdown — despite video leaking out from a weekly CompStat meeting capturing precinct leaders telling Chief of Department Terence Monahan that cops were “afraid” of facing charges over the law.
- from the same article.
​

...organized by the police unions.
and the policing culture and retaliation against those who speak out is immensely troubling.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/19/amid-...s-explain-what-drove-them-to-leave-the-force/

When officers are asked — let alone volunteer themselves — to turn against a fellow officer, “you can be abandoned by a lot of [your friends] virtually overnight, and your whole support circle kind of falls apart,” he said. “So it’s kind of heartbreaking to see, because a lot of them are ethically committed.”

Aaron can remember the exact case that prompted him to leave law enforcement entirely — though the decision was compounded by years of “mismanagement” over “racial and socioeconomic bias.”

“There was a car wreck that I responded to, that ended up being a stolen car,” he told The Post. “I got in a foot pursuit with this person, and we ended up fighting, just the two of us on the ground,” adding that the suspect made multiple attempts to take his holstered gun.

The suspect, “college guy, white kid from [a] rich background,” also appeared to be intoxicated or mentally disturbed, Aaron said. “He got charged with a laundry list of felonies, [including] felony assault on law enforcement . . . He had stolen two cars.”

Ultimately, Aaron was never called in to testify against the suspect. The case was eventually dismissed and “pled down to a DWI.”

“I just was blown away by that,” he said. “That was just the clearest-cut example to me of the bias in the judicial system. White, rich people . . . get away with stuff.”

On the other hand, Aaron said, he’s often been asked to testify in court over minor crimes, such as traffic tickets, charged to a person of color.

“We held a full trial for a stop sign ticket so that we could get that conviction,” he said. Meanwhile, he said, “We let this [white] person who tried to kill an on-duty police officer literally just walk away with a DWI, after being charged with [several] felonies.”

He knows cases like these are indicative of a larger problem in law enforcement, but seeing it firsthand, he said, “I pretty much lost my faith in the justice system.”​

thats just a couple of the interviews.

but here's some more troubling signs...
https://nypost.com/2020/07/23/nypd-chief-terence-monahan-explodes-in-meeting-with-police-brass/
https://nypost.com/2020/08/09/nypd-traffic-tickets-plummet-but-drivers-arent-slowing-down/
https://nypost.com/2020/07/21/nypd-estimated-to-blow-new-overtime-cap-by-400m-watchdog/
https://nypost.com/2020/06/19/amid-...s-explain-what-drove-them-to-leave-the-force/
https://nypost.com/2020/08/06/police-unions-band-together-to-sue-nyc-over-chokehold-law/

 

[A_Wayward_Waffle]

What functions / calls currently handled by the police department that they are not trained to handle do you suggest be given to other, new entities? Be specific as you can.

Stopping crime.. Well, that metric depends on how you define "stop".

Does the presence of a police officer deter someone from committing a crime? Then someone could consider that stopping crime. And the only chance a police officer has to prevent a crime is to be at the right place at the right time. And even then, what an officer is legally able to do in a land where everyone is innocent until they are proven guilty will always be up to debate.

Planet Earth is not "Minority Report".

In the united states everyone is innocent until proven guilty In a court of law.
not just because a cop says he saw something.

Responding to domestic abuse calls, that should be handled by someone educated in social work and psychoanalysis.
the priority for any police officer should be to deescalate the situation
not resort to deadly force.

 

[Industrialsize]

The NYPD Is Withholding Evidence From Investigations Into Police Abuse
The NYPD has regularly failed to turn over key records and videos to police abuse investigators at New York’s Civilian Complaint Review Board. “This just seems like contempt,” said the now-retired judge who ordered the NYPD to use body cameras.

by Eric Umansky and Mollie Simon

Aug. 17, 5 a.m. EDT

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ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up to receive our biggest stories as soon as they’re published.

This story is co-published with THE CITY.

ProPublica is working with THE CITY, WNYC/Gothamist and The Marshall Project to report on how allegations of misconduct by law enforcement officers in New York are investigated and to examine and analyze police disciplinary records that have recently been made public.

Last summer, New York City police officers drove by two friends sitting on a bench outside a Brooklyn school. The officers stopped, later telling investigators that they suspected the two — a 16-year-old and 21-year-old, both male and Black — of carrying marijuana. As the teenager ran, one of the officers grabbed the 21-year-old from behind, lifted him up and slammed him into the pavement.

The officer, who was 60 pounds heavier than the young man, broke three bones in the man’s left foot, and among other injuries caused a brain bleed, leaving him hospitalized for six days.

The bare details we know about the case come from the city agency charged with digging into civilians’ complaints of police misconduct, New York’s Civilian Complaint Review Board. But investigators faced a significant impediment: the NYPD itself.

Seven body cameras worn by officers captured at least some of the incident. CCRB investigators requested the videos. The law requires the NYPD to cooperate, but the department declined to share most of the footage. The NYPD told the CCRB it was protecting the privacy of the teenager, whose face was captured in the footage. Rather than blurring the teen’s face, the NYPD shared just one video. It began after the 21-year-old was already handcuffed.


When ProPublica shared the CCRB’s summary of the case with the now-retired federal judge who ordered that NYPD officers use body cams, she had a clear response.


“This just seems like contempt,” Shira Scheindlin told ProPublica. “I understand privacy concerns. But they’re refusing to meet their obligations.”
The NYPD Is Withholding Evidence From Investigations Into Police Abuse — ProPublica

 

[SexyMorenoPaTi]

Personally, I don't feel that we can survive completely without police. There is evil in the world, and we need "somebody" to help us restore that balance.

However, having worked in a high school, I can say that our youth would have benefitted MUCH MORE by having a team of dedicated ON SITE social workers with resources vs. having police being present. The youth need to know that there is someone that cares. The way it is set up in Chicago Public Schools, they sometimes have 1 or 2 therapists that rotate between 10 schools, and so they only truthfully see certain students once every quarter, which isn't enough time to build a rapport with the student.

I remember one case of a student who was a "bad ass", but I recognized his street smarts and helped him use that in the classroom. (I mean, he sold drugs for survival, so he was really smart at math...) This kid once made a bomb threat. The whole school was very distraught. I asked him why did he do that? He honestly told me "You know, I had to do something to get arrested because at least in jail, they feed me 3 times a day and I have a warm place to sleep. My home is really fucked up, only if you knew..."

Having police in schools is simple and easy, but incarcerating our youth doesn't really fix their problems nor does it give them a chance to live a better life (sometimes, but most times not).

 

[keenobserver]

Personally, I don't feel that we can survive completely without police. There is evil in the world, and we need "somebody" to help us restore that balance.

However, having worked in a high school, I can say that our youth would have benefitted MUCH MORE by having a team of dedicated ON SITE social workers with resources vs. having police being present. The youth need to know that there is someone that cares. The way it is set up in Chicago Public Schools, they sometimes have 1 or 2 therapists that rotate between 10 schools, and so they only truthfully see certain students once every quarter, which isn't enough time to build a rapport with the student.

I remember one case of a student who was a "bad ass", but I recognized his street smarts and helped him use that in the classroom. (I mean, he sold drugs for survival, so he was really smart at math...) This kid once made a bomb threat. The whole school was very distraught. I asked him why did he do that? He honestly told me "You know, I had to do something to get arrested because at least in jail, they feed me 3 times a day and I have a warm place to sleep. My home is really fucked up, only if you knew..."

Having police in schools is simple and easy, but incarcerating our youth doesn't really fix their problems nor does it give them a chance to live a better life (sometimes, but most times not).

Nice post! I appreciate your point of view. I don't see anyone seriously except the right wing claiming anyone will put police forces out of business and send everyone home to be replaced by a collection of portly social workers wearing soft clothes. That said, you are right about the need for social workers in schools and clearly what we have been doing with policing, however well intended is not working. We can do better, and spend less on artillery and more on food, social support and education.

 

[phonehome]

Nice post! I appreciate your point of view. I don't see anyone seriously except the right wing claiming anyone will put police forces out of business and send everyone home to be replaced by a collection of portly social workers wearing soft clothes. That said, you are right about the need for social workers in schools and clearly what we have been doing with policing, however well intended is not working. We can do better, and spend less on artillery and more on food, social support and education.

Clearly

20 or 30 years ago if you said the words "school resource officer" people would have had no idea what you were talking about or thought you were talking about someone in charge of getting and handing out supplies IE "resources"

 

[Jjz1109]

^. How did the world ever get this far? How did we get to 2020 without teachers aids, social workers, school psychologists (none, not even twice a week, imagine that!) and “school resource officers?” I was in classes with 50 kids and a teacher, and we NEVER had the issues going on today. No violence. No shootings. No outbursts. No bomb threats. Why? Maybe there was more respect in the classroom, and support from parents, and the expectation that we actually went to school to learn something. Crazy, right?