Deliver us from evil

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by madame_zora, Oct 11, 2006.

  1. madame_zora

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    Corruption in the Whitehouse, corruption in the whole government, corruption in the church. When will we ever get the message that "moralism" isn't real, in fact it can't be.

    Oliver O'Grady, a former priest who served seven years for being convicted of molesting at least 25 children is the subject of a new documentary called "Deliver Us From Evil". While the church is STILL fucking scrambling to COVER THE GODDAMNED STORY UP by saying he's a criminal and his story should be disregarded, his accounts of his encounters, interviews with the parents of the children and the children themselves sure seem pretty realistic to me. I saw this on ABC news, they ran an extensive clip of the interview with a set of parents. I can't find that clip, but I found the trailer to the film on youtube:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=ptRHj_quQr8

    This story is easy to find, but here's one source:

    http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/go/story.html?id=3a758867-b1ff-4b07-83c1-a7185847c2f2&k=52803



    People, there IS a cure for what ails us, and it's really not all that tough. It's HONESTY. Deep, penetrative, expository honesty. Why are we so afraid of being honest? Because then we would have to deal with OUR OWN issues, and it's so much more gratifying to deal with someone else's, especially if we can demonise them and keep thinking of them as "other" from ourselves. They are not, they are members of our organisations, our families, our church groups, and sometimes even ourselves.

    Oliver O'Grady is a sick, wretched and depraved man. He is unapologetic about what he did to those kids, but what about all the members of the church who KNEW who and what he was, but decided it was "in the best interest of the church" to just transfer him, over and over, putting all the children before him he could ever want? O'Grady HAS a reason for his behavior- no self control. What excuse can we give his superiors? None! They just cared more about their organisation than our children. Fuck the Catholics for this, I mean it. I hope this keeps John Paul II from being sainted. Despite the overwhelming good he did, this is a shame to which no saint would turn a blind eye.
     
  2. D_Sheffield Thongbynder

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    Of all the scandals that have occurred in my lifetime, the Catholic Chruch's cover-up of pedophile priests is the most shameful. Victimizing children in a place and position of spirituality sickens me. I find it hard to understand how Catholics can maintain their trust in a heirachy that either promoted or overlooked this sickness.
     
  3. Lex

    Lex
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    What more can be said?
     
  4. fortiesfun

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    How about that trying to blame it all on gay priests, as if being gay automatically made one a pedophile, and continuing to publicize only male on male pedophilia when thousands of male on female cases are known, is continuing cowardice and an appalling case of scapegoating genuinely good and loyal servants.
     
  5. DC_DEEP

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    Do you? Really? John, you are bright, I think you know full well how they maintain their trust. Think about it, and post again, and we will see if you come to the same conclusion I did.
     
  6. D_Sheffield Thongbynder

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    DC, I do believe in God and prayer (I won't go into how this belief evolved), and though I long ago abandoned organized religion as a vehicle for exercising my spirituality, for some time I begrudgingly admired my Catholic friends for their unswerving faith in their church. That is until these scandals erupted. My Catholic friends are true scholars and do not embrace the church as a means of abrogating their responsibility to think trhough a belief system; they are not sheep being led through a system of delusions; they do not use the chruch as a crutch. And they admit to the church's horrendous acts in these scandals. It's the latter that baffles me. Since the church is the system they have chosen to work on their spirituality and since the church has demonstrated that it is unwilling or incapable of spiritual leadership, how can they in good conscience continue to support it? In dialogue with them, they say things like "it's morally bankrupt people, not the tenets of the church, that should be blamed," etc. My contention is that the church IS people, and when the corruption is as widespread as it apparently was, the system has failed to live up to its raison d' etre.
     
  7. prepstudinsc

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    I know some people who were molested by priests. I grew up with them, went to school with them. They were altar boys and the local priest would invite them to play cards in his room at the rectory. Things like that should be done in the living room or in a public area. I'm sorry, but why would he have to take them to his room??????? There is nothing wrong with inviting people over to the rectory, but no person needs to go into a priest's bedroom.

    It's not a gay issue, because straight priests are just as guilty of child molestation. Look at all the priests who have molested young girls. We like to focus on what is perceived as the "worst of the worst". Molestation is molestation...there is no heirarchy. Children are victims and it doesn't matter what way the crime is perpetrated. The people who do it are sick individuals.
    What was wrong in about every case was that the bishops rarely chose to deal with the issue at hand and now it's blown up to huge proportions.
    It's festered like a big boil and now it's popped.

    I have many Catholic relatives and some of them have blind allegiance to the church. Others, like my grandparents, have faith God and believe in the Catholic doctrines, but have little faith in the "organization" now. My grandmother told me that she has stopped giving money to the special "Bishop's Offering" because she thinks it's going to be used for paying off lawsuits in child molestation suits. She will only give to her church's general offering or to designated funds at her parish. When people start giving like that, it's a telling sign that they have lost faith in the organization. People vote with their pocketbooks.

    I think that one of the things that sets Catholic and Protestant churches apart are that Protestant ministers are still seen as humans. Catholic priests are seen as "higher than". Many people revere priests to the point of worship and feel that they can do no wrong. Of course, there is some of that in Protestant churches, especially evangelical ones where the Pastor controls everything, but there are usually more checks and balances. In a Catholic church, the priest has ultimate control of everything. There are committees, but they just make recommendations. They have no authority. In Protestant churches, the committees and the congregation generally have final say. So if there is a problem, it is dealt with. The congregation is not afraid to deal. There was a local Presbyterian church here where the Youth Pastor was involed with kiddy porn. He got busted for it and was fired within a day. That's the way it should be.

    In a Catholic church, because the priests are thought of in a different way, it would have been hushed up and the priest moved around. Also, there would have been no accountability. The church board would not have had the power to convene an emergency meeting to fire him. The bishop would have to do it, but the bishop doesn't have to listen to the local church council, and probably won't listen to them.

    It's no wonder that Catholics are disenfranchised with the church. They've been hurt by something in which they put their trust. They were betrayed.
    The church lied to them. However, people have to learn to look beyond the people who run the church and look to what the church really is about. It's about God, not about the day to day shennanigans of a few sickos.
     
  8. DC_DEEP

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    Correct. But admitting the whole system has failed, rather than one or two individuals, would mean admitting that they have placed their faith in something other than god. It would mean admitting that their whole system of belief is flawed. And who wants that?
     
  9. madame_zora

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    I'm not sure what you're referencing, other than perhaps the general attitude of most of America, but this particular priest molested both girls and boys. It's my understanding that with most paedophiles, their desires aren't necessarily gender specific. My mother was molested by a priest, so it sure as fuck isn't a "gay issue" to me.
     
  10. joyboytoy79

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    Mme, i think what he's trying to reference is the church's stance. In responce to the child molestation that was uncovered in the late 90s and early 00s the Catholic church issued statements condemning homosexual priests. The media (both news and entertainment) focused on "little boys" as the victims. The church would much rather villify gay preists than change an outdated practice of celebacy.
     
  11. MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK

    MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK Well-Known Member

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    Hypocrosy from the word go about the Catholic church there, MZ, John.
    An d these are the same people who preach,"the truth shall set you free."
     
  12. D_Sheffield Thongbynder

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    The truth seems to thrive in neither government nor the Catholic heirarchy, Chuck. Worse, it appears that many of us are accepting of that reality. I did an informal poll of Catholics I work with an hour ago: Though disappointed in the behaviors of the pedophile priests and the subsequent cover-up by church officials, not one saw that as reason for undue concern, and all continue practicing their religion as if this were just another of man's foibles. No wonder the Inquisition went unchallenged for such a long time. You'd think I am too old to be disappointed, but I am.
     
  13. SpeedoGuy

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    This Catholic bid sayonara to the church over this and other issues.

    I really don't know if priests and bishops and cardinals have a higher rate of pedophilia than the population in general but I do know they were given special positions of trust and respect they proved unworthy of. Fool me once....
     
  14. majormadness

    majormadness New Member

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    It's simple. Many of us (myself included) have Italian mothers.
    Actually, the Catholic Church's coverup of clergy molestation is shameful, but it seems that ANY institution has a molestation scandal. Any major corporation, government, institution, etc. It's easy for a freak to slip into a group's ranks, especially a large one like the church. I don't think it reflects badly on the church that some priests are pedophiles. The thing they did wrong was cover the pedophiles' asses.
    Then again, Jesus preached forgiveness. I forgive my church for it's past transgressions and choose to accept it for what it is, as imperfect as it's earthly manifestation may be.
     
  15. SpeedoGuy

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    That's where my distaste lies. The scandal wasn't just a few isolated cases. It was a coordinated cover up by the senior hierarchy that lasted decades. Not, in my opinion, forgiveable for an organization that I once dearly trusted for guidance, sincerity and honesty.

    Don't perceive this post as an attack. I admire your forgiveness ethic. I just can't muster the same myself.
     
  16. davidjh7

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    I only find one error in your view. When Christ preached forgiveness, and forgave the sinner, he predicated that on "sin no more". In other words, people sinning is forgivable. People continuing to do the same sin over and over is not. People make mistakes. Not learning from your mistake is what is, or should be, unforgivable.:smile:
     
  17. DC_DEEP

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    Right. I mean, really, how many times can the archdiocese transfer a molester/priest before they decide that he is, perhaps, not suitable to minister to ANY parish, anywhere?
     
  18. fortiesfun

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    Yah. What he said...
     
  19. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    It's pure denial John. I see it still after the thing's somewhat passed away too. And I agree with your victimization/opportunism stance John.

    During that mess and its aftermath I've spoken to many Roman Catholic friends (both practicing and lapsed) who refuse to allow themselves - or are entirely unable intellectually - to see the problem with the priesthood as an institution in this scandal. I see no real changes other than policing the thing more overtly.

    With regard to the Boston Archdiocese;

    Cardinal Law was simply the one who got caught after generations of those who preceded him remained untarnished by similar knowledge of the goings-on within the church.

    Here's the thing:

    When generation after generation of Roman Catholics preach and maintain that homosexuality is unnatural and closets its male parishioners to cloistered status with respect to their sexuality the priesthood is going to be an obvious fertile playground (pun intended) for any sort of repressed sexual behavior. And since those who receive a spiritual calling (whatever that truly is) are often more - shall we say - "sensitive" than the run-of-the-mill heterosexual male. BINGO! You've got 'em heading for the priesthood in droves.

    I know for a fact that the R.C. priesthood is used as a refuge for homosexuals who can doing nothing in this life but deny the reality of who they are sexually. It makes me ill to my core.

    Personally I despise the light in which the Roman Catholic pedophile scandal has placed male homosexuality generally. It does nothing but further-enforce the stereotypes that gay men are pedophiles.

    There's simply no hope for the institution as long as two things remain unchanged:

    1) present/societal religous views of the "wrongness" of homosexuality

    2) the celibacy vow taken by R. C. priests

    The thing's one big fat fucking set up.
     
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