Democratic party 2020 candidate speculation / discussion thread.

[b.c.]

It creates more chaos, plays to people's fears and frightens people who are largely stupid into voting for Trump. Pay attention. It is not hard to folliw.

Precisely. It is simply the latest iteration of the Cold War.

Khrushchev once said to America "We will bury you." And the Putin and the Russian oligarchy has never lost sight of that intent - perhaps not literally, but in the sense of world domination, power, influence, finances, and political sway certainly.

And I'm not speaking of the Russian people who, like us, consist of the good, the not so good, and the indifferent. I'm speaking of their wealthy ELITE and those in POWER.

And Trump, the GOP and their supporters who refuse to see it for what it is, are equally complicit.

But no, they'd rather demonize Democrats and Progressives for recognizing it for what it IS. It's all part of their own delusional bullshit mischaracterization of US, in an effort to defend that which they know is indefensible and abhorrent.

Like their spin that liberals want to "take away all their guns." Uhhhh... NO. Just better gun control LAWS. WE have guns too... guns aplenty. Locked and loaded (as the saying goeth). My own avatar carries a gat. Just sayin'.

Nor do liberals want wide open borders. We want a humane, compassionate, and legal path to immigration, citizenship, and legal rights to those seeking asylum... basically just some plain DECENCY afforded, not to Latinos, or any other category they want to demonize... but TO PEOPLE just looking, hoping, and praying for a FUCKING BREAK.

Regarding MFA, interesting ideas have been put forward, and a recently revealed Yale study has shed some light on the potential benefits both in costs and the saving of lives. I'd like to see some hybrid system, supported in part by private sector supplements or options.

 

[Thikn2velvet1]

@Thikn2velvet1 Are you assuming that what they would gain with bernie is less than what they had before?

I could be wrong but i thought you were saying that just the act of thinking you know better than others was something to be looked down on. It would seem now you might be implying that they specifically would lose more than they gained.

Could you in any way prove that they would?

Oh and aren't you currently thinking you know better than others?

You don’t think that the Culinary Workers can adequately evaluate their own plan vs Sanders? Isn ‘t presumptuous of Sanders to suggest that he knows better than what the workers themselves know?

 

[wallyj84]

You don’t think that the Culinary Workers can adequately evaluate their own plan vs Sanders? Isn ‘t presumptuous of Sanders to suggest that he knows better than what the workers themselves know?

These unions are looking out for their member's best interests. Sanders is also looking out for their best interests, but he has to also consider the concerns of the rest of population. Much like with state worker pensions, this is an issue where the best result for union isn't the best result for the population at large.

Healthcare is just one of those issues where you can't fix it without negatively impacting some people. It's an omelette problem. But something has to be done. Healthcare in America didn't work before Obamacare and it doesn't work after Obamacare. It is just doesn't work and needs to be fundamentally changed. Will that leave some people in a worse situation than they were before? Yes. Will it be better for people as a whole? Hopefully. That is just the reality of the situation.

 

[spaj8987]

@Thikn2velvet1 The issue here isn't whether or not i think they can adequately evaluate their own plan vs sanders. I wasn't the one who thought they knew better than sanders. I asked you questions of how it isn't the case that sanders doesn't know better BECAUSE you're implying that sander's plans are not in fact better.

While also attempting to paint people of think they know better than others as being bad somehow without once questioning if they actually do know better or not.

You: I think bernie sanders is being presumptuous to suggest that he knows better than what the workers themselves know. Meaning i think i know better than sanders what's best for them.

Me: How do you know? Also, aren't you being guilty of EXACTLY what you've painted others as?

You: No but liberals bad.

Me: Again, aren't you currently presuming to know better than others? Something you said you dislike in others? Also, how do you know sander's plan isn't better?

You: No but liberals bad.

I could be wrong but to me it would seem your goal here is to demonize democrats. Not get to the facts of the matter on anything.

 

[spaj8987]

The mandatory nature if MFA is going to be what kills it. Requiring every citizen to have health insurance that meets a minimum standard was enough to flip the Senate under Obama. Union plans came after a lot of hard negotiating and in lieu of higher pay. The MFA systems will not be as comprehensive as many of these plans - Medicare is not as comprehensive as the insurance I had before I retired, I see the differences. Medicare is not bad, but I've had better coverage. A more moderate approach would be Medicare for all who want it, and let people choose. If the plan is good others will come to it voluntary - not dragged.

The larger issue is hospitals. My area just built a massive new medical center, it ithe s far and away sate of the art. My local Congressman, a Democrat showed how much money the system would lose under MFA. It would break them because the costs the system has to pay are not regulated and the margins of Medicare were always meant to be razor thin to keep costs down. Insurance companies monitor costs, but they pay out more than Medicare - and that keeps the doors open in a lot of medical systems.

The cost to implement it, the regulatory nightmare and the effect on the delivery of services will cause Democrats to become a minority party for the next 20 years. That's a problem.

I disagree and agree. I think the larger problem here is how much money the government pulls in. Or as it were doesn't or can't pull in. When it comes to the irs we now know that they don't go after the rich nearly as much as they go for the middle class and poor. Which would net them more revenue/profit/allow them to offer more benefits.

Couple that with wages not being in line with the cost of living. Union busting. And every other assault on the middle class and poor and you have a government that's basically crippled when it comes to helping out the people they should be helping.

That i think is why the ends don't currently meet in bernie's plan. And why in your area specifically it could spell disaster.

I also think bernie is banking on being able to take over government and sway more people toward making the rich pay more of their share fairly. Which would then make up for the costs of things like in your area.

I don't think he'll succeed. But that's my guess as to what his plan is. And i'm pretty sure he doesn't really want to keep hitting that issue because he knows that if you give americans a choice. Someone without their best intentions in heart can and will convince them of otherwise. Not all americans mind you. Just the ones who don't put much thought into the future like you have.

So yeah, i disagree and agree at the same time. I agree that it has the potential to level democrats. At the same time if he were to pull off changing things like citizens united, the irs only going after the poor and middle class, republicans and conservatives attacking safety net programs and so on that the costs for programs would be changed. And in the long run would work out better.

 

[keenobserver]

I disagree and agree. I think the larger problem here is how much money the government pulls in. Or as it were doesn't or can't pull in. When it comes to the irs we now know that they don't go after the rich nearly as much as they go for the middle class and poor. Which would net them more revenue/profit/allow them to offer more benefits.

Couple that with wages not being in line with the cost of living. Union busting. And every other assault on the middle class and poor and you have a government that's basically crippled when it comes to helping out the people they should be helping.

That i think is why the ends don't currently meet in bernie's plan. And why in your area specifically it could spell disaster.

I also think bernie is banking on being able to take over government and sway more people toward making the rich pay more of their share fairly. Which would then make up for the costs of things like in your area.

I don't think he'll succeed. But that's my guess as to what his plan is. And i'm pretty sure he doesn't really want to keep hitting that issue because he knows that if you give americans a choice. Someone without their best intentions in heart can and will convince them of otherwise. Not all americans mind you. Just the ones who don't put much thought into the future like you have.

So yeah, i disagree and agree at the same time. I agree that it has the potential to level democrats. At the same time if he were to pull off changing things like citizens united, the irs only going after the poor and middle class, republicans and conservatives attacking safety net programs and so on that the costs for programs would be changed. And in the long run would work out better.

If Bernie is elected he will not ever have the support of Congress to do much of anything. He will lose the Congress his second year and then we are fucked again. MFA is DOA.

 

[Industrialsize]

Poll: 'Medicare for All' Support Is High -- But Complicated | RealClearPolitics

 

[spaj8987]

If Bernie is elected he will not ever have the support of Congress to do much of anything. He will lose the Congress his second year and then we are fucked again. MFA is DOA.

I don't know if that's a certainty. If he keeps going like he currently is even after having won yeah. But my guess is that the impeachment hearings and the impeach trail right off the bat will change the political landscape of america. To what degree...i don't know but i do know that it will contribute to at the very least some republicans and conservatives losing seats.

Which in my eyes will signal to republicans and conservatives in office that they should fear something other than republicans and conservatives.

As far as i can tell bernie has already taken over the democratic party. People like hillary clinton and barack obama no longer have a chance in the democratic party. And i don't think they'll have a chance for a good while. What i see is democrats acting more and more like bernie. And backing him up as much as they can because they'll think most of their winning came from him. They'll only be partly correctly. But i think at that point they'll begin to back bernie and his plans more and more.

Making it more and more difficult for republicans and conservatives to screw over the american public as much as they used to. And freeing up money for bernie's plans in the process.

I think by his second year he'll still be going strong. Until that is, how he was able to win catches up with him.

He has gained support partly by way of painting democrats in many of the same ways republicans and conservatives do. Oh had a secret meeting with wall street..oh then you're corrupt. So when he does begin to do things like that. Republicans and conservatives will then use his own words against clinton, obama and other democrats against him. And it'll work.

I thinking the rich, big companies and so on will withdraw their support for a lot of things in washington. That instead of bernie's plans not working being the point in which he's taken out. It'll be lies as usual that will make him a one term president.

Remember how obama could do no right in the eyes of fox news? Well since we americans haven't dismantled that propaganda machine along with bernie and his supporters diverting toward the money instead of racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia and so on. Republicans and conservatives will just lie even more.

So that even if his plans do end up working. They'll lie and say it doesn't/didn't. And THAT'S when he'll take down the democratic party. Because he won't know how to defend himself against those lies because he helped those same lies in the past.

The aca actually worked. It did exactly what it was meant to do. And what it was meant to do was to get more people healthcare. It wasn't meant to fix healthcare as a whole. It was only meant to keep people from ignoring that we do in fact have issues with healthcare. Or at least that's the way i see it. Could be wrong.

And people still to this day say the aca was a mistake as a whole. Even though it was chopped and screwed by republicans and conservatives before it got out the door.

If bernie were to win. That first year would see insane growth in america. Since republicans and conservatives would still be licking their wounds from having gotten curb stomped in elections. That second year bernie would begin to impliment plans to make the rich pay their fair share which would help pay for everything else he wants to do and THAT'S when the shit would hit the fan.

The second anyone in any capacity in america tries to make the rich pay their fair share without the support of traditionally targeted groups..they're destined for failure. Or at least that's what i'm thinking.

 

[Thikn2velvet1]

@Thikn2velvet1 The issue here isn't whether or not i think they can adequately evaluate their own plan vs sanders. I wasn't the one who thought they knew better than sanders. I asked you questions of how it isn't the case that sanders doesn't know better BECAUSE you're implying that sander's plans are not in fact better.

While also attempting to paint people of think they know better than others as being bad somehow without once questioning if they actually do know better or not.

You: I think bernie sanders is being presumptuous to suggest that he knows better than what the workers themselves know. Meaning i think i know better than sanders what's best for them.

Me: How do you know? Also, aren't you being guilty of EXACTLY what you've painted others as?

You: No but liberals bad.

Me: Again, aren't you currently presuming to know better than others? Something you said you dislike in others? Also, how do you know sander's plan isn't better?

You: No but liberals bad.

I could be wrong but to me it would seem your goal here is to demonize democrats. Not get to the facts of the matter on anything.

Reading comprehension might not be your strong suit, I see. I will try once more, then let you ramble on at will.

I am presuming that THE CULINARY WORKERS KNOW BETTER WHAT THEY NEED than Bernie Sanders does. I am not presuming I KNOW BETTER.

Does that help?

 

[spaj8987]

@Thikn2velvet1 You are great at insults. Bad at facts.

Is it a fact that they know better? The second that hamster you call a brain can work that out. That'll be the second this interaction can without your childish need to insult to hide the fact that you think facts care about your feelings.

 

[Industrialsize]

Reading comprehension might not be your strong suit, I see. I will try once more, then let you ramble on at will.

I am presuming that THE CULINARY WORKERS KNOW BETTER WHAT THEY NEED than Bernie Sanders does. I am not presuming I KNOW BETTER.

Does that help?

The do, they voted overwhelmingly for Senator Sanders. Often times there is a disconnect between the Union leadership and the rank and file regarding politics. I thought you were sophisticated enough to know this.

 

[Industrialsize]

From February 2016:

 

[ttmax]

Is an arrogant billionaire with a sense of entitlement and a record of fixing regulations (by splashing cash) to extend his term of office really the best candidate to defeat Trump?

Or will his showing in the Nevada debate be too great a setback? How to sum up that performance? Let me see........

Billionaire Bloomberg signs up for an intense televised Dom/sub session with maximum public humiliation, where Master Bernie and Mistress Elizabeth hand him his ass on a plate

 

[Thikn2velvet1]

The do, they voted overwhelmingly for Senator Sanders. Often times there is a disconnect between the Union leadership and the rank and file regarding politics. I thought you were sophisticated enough to know this.

This is a comment from a culinary worker:

“We have so many people that have walked that picket line, blood sweat and tears, for us. We’re going to be here to protect it, but I worry about other people that aren’t protected by unions. How do they get healthcare. What's the dollar amount that they have to go through, do they have to worry about not being able to go to a hospital?”

Yes, it sounds like there could be a disconnect.

 

[Tight_N_Juicy]

Go Bernie, GO!!!

 

[spaj8987]

Hillary Clinton: Will support Sanders if nominated for Dems

[“I’m going to wait and see who we nominate,” she said. “I will support the nominee, and it won’t surprise you to hear me say that I think that it’s imperative that we retire the incumbent.” ]

 

[BillDodson]

That was a terrible debate last night, everyone came out looking worse.

 

[keenobserver]

That was a terrible debate last night, everyone came out looking worse.

Yes. No argument from me. It was an epic shit show. I had to e-mail an apology for Snoop Dogg for all the things I said when he went after Gayle King for her Kobe remarks. He was right after all! Wow. Mods failed to control the debate and the desperation was long and deep. Everyone had their bad moments. Warren did the best, but that is not moving the needle. Bloomberg couldn't buy vowel on Wheel of Fortune, so I don't see him buying the election. Bernie has more votes against him than for him overall, but because all the entitled egos on the stage are all 'entitled' in their own special way to be there no one is backing down, so Bernie holds on. Still this should all be settled in three weeks, max.

 

[Thikn2velvet1]

Yes. No argument from me. It was an epic shit show. I had to e-mail an apology for Snoop Dogg for all the things I said when he went after Gayle King for her Kobe remarks. He was right after all! Wow. Mods failed to control the debate and the desperation was long and deep. Everyone had their bad moments. Warren did the best, but that is not moving the needle. Bloomberg couldn't buy vowel on Wheel of Fortune, so I don't see him buying the election. Bernie has more votes against him than for him overall, but because all the entitled egos on the stage are all 'entitled' in their own special way to be there no one is backing down, so Bernie holds on. Still this should all be settled in three weeks, max.

Warren attacked Bloomberg, who trails her, and not Bernie, who is in the lead. It is like the Buffalo Bills blasting the Miami Dolphins with an all out blitz, while the New England Patriots rest comfortably on top.

 

[keenobserver]

Warren attacked Bloomberg, who trails her, and not Bernie, who is in the lead. It is like the Buffalo Bills blasting the Miami Dolphins with an all out blitz, while the New England Patriots rest comfortably on top.

Yeah, that was one of many issues. She did draw a distinction between her and Bernie about 'doing the work' a real issue with Sanders over many years. Bloomberg would have done better if he were not on the debate stage. His ads are great - him, on stage no so much.