Democrats attempting to abolish 401(k)'s

SpeedoGuy

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Would you care to explain to me how this would be attractive option to business owners if all the tax breaks are eliminated?

I think mindseye means that a matching thrift savings plan is still an attractive option for employees even if tax breaks were eliminated.
 

B_starinvestor

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Starinvestor:



versus Alan Freakin' Greenspan:



Starinvestor must have swallowed a centipede to explain the number of feet he has in his mouth by now.

Greenspan is backpedaling. Hard. His legacy is in an unmitigated freefall.

He fucked up bigtime by raising rates too quickly in the late 90's. When that poor monetary policy initiative brought the economy to a screeching halt in the summer of 2000, he redoubled his fuckup by reducing rates too quickly from 2000 - 2003 and manufacturing the cheap credit envirnoment that was the catalyst of this mess.

Now he's muttering on about deregulation and building shareholder value blah blah blah. He is generously handing blame over to a glitch in the shareholder value system. Bullshit, Alan. With the benefit of hindsight, we can see that his monetary policy really hurt.:eek:
 

Mushroom9

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Is it "elitist" to point out that Star can't spell or punctuate correctly?

That, while pitiable, wouldn't be damning in itself. Unfortunately, he is doomed by something much more fundamental that the grammar.

His "arguments" are robbed of any impact by the fact that his perspective is willfully ignorant, catholicly dogmatic and mind-numbingly stupid. His tirades are completely at odds with fact, reason and logic. One hardly knows where to begin.

Suffice it to say, I suspect that Starivestor's only good investment has been his Franklin Mint Elvis plate. In other words Hootie, don't waste your breath.
 

B_starinvestor

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Is it "elitist" to point out that Star can't spell or punctuate correctly?

I would never confuse you with anything 'elite.'

That, while pitiable, wouldn't be damning in itself. Unfortunately, he is doomed by something much more fundamental that the grammar.

Ironic. What does 'that the grammar' mean?

His "arguments" are robbed of any impact by the fact that his perspective is willfully ignorant, catholicly dogmatic and mind-numbingly stupid. His tirades are completely at odds with fact, reason and logic. One hardly knows where to begin.

Then don't.

Suffice it to say, I suspect that Starivestor's only good investment has been his Franklin Mint Elvis plate. In other words Hootie, don't waste your breath.

Howe didja knowdis?
 

transformer_99

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let's get real people.

my 401k has lost $70,000 in the past month; that's 63% of its value on 8/30/08

401k plans have been good but not in these deregulated times created by the republicans.

thank God I'm not ready to retire because I'd be in real trouble.

and these republicans are the same idiots who want to privatize social security? HAH! let's see them try to float that boat again after this miserable financial meltdown.

You'd also be hurting if you had already retired, recently or several years prior.

I never was a fan of the 401-K/403-B's, it's like getting your own little gambling account. You know what I like better ? A "Pension", a guaranteed percentage of your income after you retire. I guess they all go back to an investment for future retirement income. But long before all this, there was social security, a pension and the stock market was a 3rd investment vehicle to save for retirement. Pensions are gone, so that leaves Social Security and these 401-K/403-B's. Maybe returning to a combination of the three is a better solution ?
 

transformer_99

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If Costco reduced all of its prices by 40% we'd be running down there and buying everything we could get our hands on. The same should be true of stocks.

Not exactly true, most of that junk over at the Costco is cheap Chinese shit anyway. You don't think that stuff was way overpriced in the first place ? And as for being cheap Chinese shit, you can pick that up anytime. I don't even buy that stuff from Wal-Mart, why do you think the shelves are full all of the time. They can keep that garbage for all I care and what they don't sell, let it rott on the shelf. Or they can take it over to Big Lots and sell it for even less and that's if it's not recycled after it doesn't sell there either ?
 

B_starinvestor

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Not exactly true, most of that junk over at the Costco is cheap Chinese shit anyway. You don't think that stuff was way overpriced in the first place ? And as for being cheap Chinese shit, you can pick that up anytime. I don't even buy that stuff from Wal-Mart, why do you think the shelves are full all of the time. They can keep that garbage for all I care and what they don't sell, let it rott on the shelf. Or they can take it over to Big Lots and sell it for even less and that's if it's not recycled after it doesn't sell there either ?

Okay, substitute Costco's with Macy's or Saks. The point is simply that 40% off is a nice bargain.
 

D_Chaumbrelayne_Copprehead

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Attaway Liberal Democrats!!

In the face of a bear market and recessionary economy, let's elimate the primary vehicle for retirement savings.

Under their proposal, all will be forced to contribute 5% of pay into government bonds paying 3%. Thats a suitable investment for, say, an 80 year old. The 401(k) provision which allows choice in deferrals will be eliminated. Employer match, also, would be ancient history.

What a wonderful way to:

1. Ensure the loss of tens of thousands of jobs in the 401(k) industry
2. Ensure that, as a society, we are even less prepared for retirement
3. Redirect funds that are flowing into the equity markets instead into T-Bonds
4. Harm low-income workers by taking away employer matching funds
5. Eliminate a key benefit from nearly every employer in the U.S.

Its frightening what will occur when Obama, Pelosi, and Reid get together in a room and formulate their new world order.



House Democrats contemplate abolishing 401(k) tax breaks - InvestmentNews

PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE ....

Please, just move on to another thread.

This is the work of a troll, don't encourage him by responding.
 

B_starinvestor

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Where's some REAL math to back this up?
No need for anyone to post such nonsense without any real statistical examples to support it. It's just more fear mongering from the right.

I'm not sure what you are looking for, Vinyl. The Dow was down 42% from its high as of yesterday's close. Its even further down today.

Going back to 1901, the average bear market was down -37.14. The average length of the bear market has been 1.29 years. The ensuing recovery has lasted, on average, 3.37 years with an average advance on the Dow of 131.18%. With the benefit of hindsight, if you buy into the bear market, you are doubling your money in less than 5 years.
 

SpeedoGuy

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matching who's money?

Employee contributions into 401(k) type plans are often largely voluntary. In a matching savings retirement plan employers match employees' contributions into the plan's fund up to a set percentage of base pay. Thus, the matching serves as an incentive for the employee to participate and save for retirement. In some such plans employees often can contribute even beyond the employer's matching contribution. I do.

401(K) types of plans rose in popularity when traditional defined-benefit pension plans fell out of favor with employers. With the decline of traditional pensions, the onus is now on individuals (instead of the company) to manage the growth of their own retirement savings. That can be a drawback if the employee is careless in financial planning. On the other hand, 401(k) type plans are portable and can be taken to a new employer if the employee ever seeks work elsewhere.
 

curious n str8

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Employee contributions into 401(k) type plans are often largely voluntary. In a matching savings retirement plan employers match employees' contributions into the plan's fund up to a set percentage of base pay. Thus, the matching serves as an incentive for the employee to participate and save for retirement. In some such plans employees often can contribute even beyond the employer's matching contribution. I do.

401(K) types of plans rose in popularity when traditional defined-benefit pension plans fell out of favor with employers. With the decline of traditional pensions, the onus is now on individuals (instead of the company) to manage the growth of their own retirement savings. That can be a drawback if the employee is careless in financial planning. On the other hand, 401(k) type plans are portable and can be taken to a new employer if the employee ever seeks work elsewhere.
I'm sorry... Speedo I was playing devils advocate with to Mindseye's question I know how 401's work but he never did answer my question about what incentives there would be if they took away all the tax benfits for employers now I read where they just want to give 3% a yr on money put into 401's that just doesn't cut it in my book.
 

transformer_99

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Okay, substitute Costco's with Macy's or Saks. The point is simply that 40% off is a nice bargain.

Why not just wait them out until they are bankrupt and buy it on ebay thru a liquidator for pennies on the dollar. It doesn't feel good to low ball others, but there seems to be enough of that going around these days. Sooner or later they're going to run out of bailouts, we'll all be starting over, serves a lot of them that f*cked too many of us over as just rewards.
 

D_Marazion Analdouche

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The people that haven't been smart with their money are the ones that are suffering right now. People that have an over aggressive portfolio, people that used their home equity to buy boats, cars, tvs, xbox, rims etc etc lost their homes.

The people that kept bills under control are doing fine. I'm sorry, but if you bought a 300K home and leased a BMW and complaining about gas prices, something is wrong.

If you bought a 110K home and took out an equity loan and bumped your payment up 400 a month to buy a plasma tv and a car, you shot yourself in the foot.

I invest in real estate and rental units, as bad as I feel for certain folks that got screwed out of no fault of their own, call it being a vulture, but this is the best time to suck up land and homes. This happens every 15 years or so, if people forget their recent history and think times will always be great, well, I don't feel bad buying your home for a third of what you paid for it. Keep sending me those rent checks.
 

TheRob

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Oh, star, you know I love you in spite of myself, but you are simply insane.

you understand points are made in a debate by actually making a point right
not just claiming the other side is "wrong"
that is the Democratic way tho I find
 

faceking

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star.... i wouldn't worry about it... the 401K industry is ginormous, and the biggies, are deep in the pockets of Democrats (thinks Frank and Dodds).... Fidelity (Boston), Franklin Templeton (San Francisco), the 401K Company/Schwab (San Francisco), Invesco, American Century... the list goes on and on.

this is empty lib/Dem posturing, to get the soundbite, and look like they are trying. it's about as probable and warranted as the Fairness Doctrine... or whatever they'll re-label it as....
 

transformer_99

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I invest in real estate and rental units, as bad as I feel for certain folks that got screwed out of no fault of their own, call it being a vulture, but this is the best time to suck up land and homes. This happens every 15 years or so, if people forget their recent history and think times will always be great, well, I don't feel bad buying your home for a third of what you paid for it. Keep sending me those rent checks.

That's how I feel about it too, but the property right now is still grossly overvalued in a lot of markets, buying it now just buys into the bullshit of the bailout. Maintains a false price floor on homes that were never worth what they are trying to peddle them for now on the day they were built as brand new and projected to sometime between 2002 and today as prices. Back in 2000, the homes in my neighborhood were being sold for around $ 100-125K, they were built in the 1950's.

Some, as recently as a year ago were still on the market for $ 300+K. When they were $ 100-125K they were overpriced, run down & dilapidated old houses, today they're just 8 years older and lived in. Unfortunately I live in Miami, these homes were sold are the proverbial "sell you a bridge in the swamps of the Everglades" joke that's been around forever.