Democrats To Block Own Pay Raises

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Lex, Jun 27, 2006.

  1. Lex

    Lex
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    This is a piggy back off of our discussions on the Minimum Wage increase being nixed by Republicans. Here is that thread.

    Democrats vow to block pay raises until minimum wage increased



    Now THIS should get interesting.
     
  2. D_Elijah_MorganWood

    D_Elijah_MorganWood New Member

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    I'm sure the Republicans think it's hilarious.
     
  3. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east 'neath the willow tree? Sex
    although this clearly reeks of electioneering, it is nevertheless a step in the right direction (assuming they're serious about it). after all, we already know that the only way to get politicians to support any social progress is to make it an issue of power politics.

    better 10 years too late than never, i guess
     
  4. dong20

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    Not to dismiss minimum wage as unimportant and I applaud the sentiment but wouldn't you rather have them channel their energies into addressing the other weighty issues that the article refers to?

    I'm too far removed to really grasp the nuances of this but it seems plausible that the thought of the Republicans being hit were it hurts may give the Democrats some leverage.....
     
  5. Lex

    Lex
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    Well, yeah. When your political family from your mother's side is willing to trash the house to make you look bad, you KNOW they mean business.

    Even if they are unsuccessul, they will bring attention to the disingenuous nature of the Republican spin doctoring and smokescreening.

    Burning the Flag? WTF?!?
     
  6. Lex

    Lex
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    Minimum wage, to me, IS a weighty issue.

    Living on $5.15 an ahour makes everything else kind of a moot point.
     
  7. Ethyl

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    The sickening irony is that the pay raises are automatic and the Democrats MUST pass an amendment to block them. Wouldn't it be nice if every working class person automatically received a raise every year?
     
  8. Rikter8

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    Agreed

    1. Get out boys out of Iraq. They dont belong there - at all.

    2. Hit the greedy republicans where it hurts the most - Their Wallets.

    3. Leave the constitution ALONE. NO Amendments.

    4. Gays and Lesbians are here, theyre human..so grasp reality, and turn your face the other way if you dont like what you see.

    5. Why do the Oil companies need TRILLIONS of dollars.
    Arent they rich beyond their wildest dreams?
    Cut the price of crude oil and get this country back on its feet.

    6. Put the Power back to the People and stop the corruptive laws.

    I could go on..but I wont.
     
  9. dong20

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    I understand and I tried to get across that I appreciated that and not to downplay it's importance. I will try harder next time....:rolleyes:

    My argument was that why pick this issue and not another..sure, electioneering was uppermost in my mind and some subsequent posts have suggested as much.

    I hope they succeed....
     
  10. Matthew

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    Amen!
     
  11. Rikter8

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    No kidding.

    I dont know of any liveable apartments that are less than $400 a month, and that doesnt include utilities, Gasoline, food, etc.

    Who can live on a minimum wage job, and be self supportive of themselves?
    But, when they make the kind of money they do in congress, they loose grasp of reality on what the rest of us HARD WORKING citizens have to do, to keep this world going round and round.
     
  12. dong20

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    Try a spell over this side of the pond....the weather is crap and the food is worse but I get an index linked+ raise each year, by way of compensation maybe...:rolleyes:

    Back on topic, broadly similar crap happens with our lying scum, err politicians voting themselves outrageous rises and allowances each year.:mad:

    Minimum wage is not currently index linked but there is a campaign to make it so, it's £5.35 (from Oct 06) per hour once you're over 22.
     
  13. Ethyl

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    You could call it compensation but there are people here who can't afford to eat and pay rent/mortgage/phone/utilities/gas all at the same time. I wouldn't call excellent weather and (possible) access to good food compensation for that kind of struggle.
     
  14. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    agree with some of the other posts here... obvious attempt at political manuevering without doing much other than smybolically... but it's at least a nice gesture. I can see both sides of the debate here but agree with the Dems on this one and think the minimum wage probably ought to be increased at least a little.
     
  15. ETA123

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    $400? Try living in a city like Boston, San Francisco or New York. You can't even touch a studio apartment for much under a grand. A two bedroom in the Boston area starts at around $1,200 and goes up from there.
     
  16. dong20

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    I tried to separate that from my on topic comment, It was made in the lighter vein of your own statement but looking back it was rather flippant but that wasn't my intention. And no, of course it isn't.

    The same situation exists here too, though I believe rather less pervasively. I was once out of work for almost 2 years and trying to survive on next to nothing was a struggle so I do appreciate how it feels to live from day to day.
     
  17. b.c.

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    Yes, well having been proven correct by virtue of our vote (or at least 51% of us), Republicans obviously believe we can be easily diverted from real issues with bullshit smoke screen issues and topics like flag burning, etc.

    After all, it's worked before.

    If nothing else, The Dem's tactics will hopefully keep the heat on the minimal wage issue.
     
  18. madame_zora

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    I don't know the exact exchange rate, but the pound is worth somewhere around twice the dollar, so you're getting TWICE the minimum wage we are.
    Yeah, you're just a tad removed from our slave labor conditions. We haven't had a cost of living increase to meet with inflation in this entire decade either, so the minimum wage is actually SHRINKING with the times. This is hardly a "fluff" issue, it may very well be one of the most important problems we face.

    Poverty unleashes a host of other problems, like violence, anger, drug abuse and racial tension. When people live in fear that their coffers will be empty, everyone they meet is the enemy. Young people growing up poor see peddling drugs as a good career move. Racial prejudice on the job market is exacerbated as the good ol' boys want to make sure their needs will be met before they want to worry about concepts like altruism and equality. Minorities feel the sting of having to accept less because they have to apply for far more jobs to actually get one, and the inequality of that is infuriating. They have to be more cautious about losing that job too, because they know the whole process will have to repeat if they leave.

    Under this adminsitration, we have lost too many middle income jobs to outsourcing and replaced them with minimum wage jobs. Kinda like the "No kid left behind" program, this was NOT a step in the right direction. More and more americans are trying to survive on this level of income than in the past, with fewer and fewer options.

    I don't give a rat-fuck if this IS political posturing, and I'm sure there's an element of that there. It still needed to be done, and someone had to pull up their pull-ups and do it. I respect someone who says there's a problem here, and the solution starts with ME- I'd rather sacrifice MY raise (which clearly they are not dependant on for their survival) for the betterment of my country.

    People are stupid and selfish to the detriment of their own interest, in the long term. What's good for the country and the people in it is eventually good for the individual. A small elitist group amassing wealth for itself to the exclusion of the majority of the people is bad in the end, because they might be the ruling class, but ruling what? And since when is becomming a sick, self-obsessed money monger a goal to strive toward? These people are soulless wraiths that should give us all the creeps, and we should be scraping them off like the blisters they are. We are not people to them- none of us! While efforts are being made to keep the races, homophobes, religions, genders and everyone else all taking shots at each other, we ignore the fact that we DO have a common enemy- the wealthy fuckers who run our government and control our legislative process. Kudos to thses guys for saying "enough's enough".
     
  19. DC_DEEP

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    mercurialbliss, you are close, but the grand prize goes to DR ROCK!!!!! Your cynicism pays off, my friend.

    Rock, it is blatant electioneering to anyone who knows how the system works. I won't re-research the issue, so I don't have exact dates... but some years ago, the Congress actually changed the law so that they did not have to bring a vote to the floor every year to get their raises. (Shit, I wouldn't mind even that, being able to vote each year on whether and how much of a raise I would get...) They decided that it was too time consuming, so they drafted and passed a law that would make their raises AUTOMATIC every year, unless they voted to forego. Even at that, none is required to accept the raise, and over the years, a small handful actually have refused it. But the point is, if the Democrats were HONESTLY interested in the issue, they would work to repeal that pay-raise-automation law... not just toss it up into the spotlight to make a point. Even at that, they are perfectly within their rights to refuse it.

    And anyone interested in how much time they actually spend on those "important" issues, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go to http://www.house.gov , choose any representative (enter your zip code to find your own, or just choose one at random), find a link that will show you his voting record. They actually spend hours and hours and hours with things like "to rename a post office in Podunk, NE after Barney Fife. Passed, under suspension of rules." "A resolution to convey the sense of the Congress that women in Denmark are prettier than women in Finland. Passed, under suspension of rules."

    I know, those are not actual issues... but you would be ASTOUNDED that there were something like 671 votes along those lines in 2005. Please, spare me, don't use an excuse like "would you rather they spend time on this less-important issue than the bigger ones." They've got the time for important issues, believe me. They squander it. There were literally hundreds of post offices renamed by roll-call vote of congress, there were hundreds of "resolutions to convey the sense of congress" taken by roll-call vote. It's so simple, I'm just amazed. They could pass a little legislation to streamline the renaming of post offices to honor this person or that person, so that it did not have to go through the current process. "Sense of Congress" resolutions could be done by the much-quicker yea or nay votes. Save the roll-call votes for the truly important things.

    No one ever likes this idea, but I think that Congress should be required to adopt the pay scale of the poorest school district in the country, and to move up in the scale, they have to stay in for a while, plus get continuing education credits, plus attend twice-annual workshops - with their constituents.
     
  20. dong20

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    I’m taking your comments out of order but first I need to say: I don’t consider minimum wage a ‘fluff’ or lightweight issue. I don’t believe I said that and I tried to qualify my initial and subsequent posts to that effect. I apologised to Lex when he appeared to misunderstand this and my first paragraph to MB was simply intended as a lightweight response to her comment:



    I went back and clarified later as it seems she too misunderstood my intent, so I guess I was having a bad day.

    So, for the avoidance of doubt: I don’t consider minimum wage as trivial, fluff or, without weight…and I apologise, without reservation if that was the impression I gave…can we move on now?



    Yes, the $/£ rate is about 1.8 which makes UK minimum wage about $9.60 or about $2 per hour above that being sought in the US? and what already exists in some states. Yes it’s higher numerically (subject to exchange rates) and if we have an apparently higher baseline, are you suggesting I should feel bad about that?

    In a discussion we had about gas prices Bronxy said to me that it’s not easy to make a direct comparison of our relative cost of living and she made some valid points, so, saying our Min wage is twice yours is unduly simplistic even if it were mathematically accurate.



    "...our slave labor conditions….” I assume you are using that in a populist sense, you surely cannot be making a comparison with a low minimum wage in a Global Super Power with the indentured slavery of millions around the world, the victims of people trafficking, children held as collateral for their parents debt to name just two examples.

    To do so would be monumentally offensive to them so I have to believe it was tongue in cheek. I have no problem with that, my comment to MB was in a similar vein, yet apparently you’re seeking to hold me to a higher standard?

    Yes, US minimum wage is low, yet you are not slaves in the sense that you do get paid (to Lex: tips v wages aside?), you can walk away. Yes I understand financial considerations may render that option impractical but not untrue and it applies to most of us.



    I don't know if this is aimed at me, but lest you think it passed me by MZ, in Dr. Rocks’ Minimum wage thread you made the glib comment: “Oh, let them eat cake” This was the same thread where I had already expressed concern at some comments by Lex about lack of index linking and tips being excluded from wages.

    Yet you seem to be taking an indirect pop at me for what you evidently perceive as me belittling the importance of the subject close to your heart; and this after I had apologised if that was the impression I had given. Well, if that's so, then with respect, that seems uncharacteristically disingenuous of you.:confused: If I'm wrong, sorry and I guess it's another bad day...:rolleyes:



    I fully understand and agree with you about the consequecnes of poverty. The US economy is essentially rooted in the principles of the free market yes? that it will determine a fair reward. One of supply and demand, empowering businesses to perform profitably, for people to compete and make money, to strive for financial success and most of all that no one gets a free ride……so long as you have a safety net (Minimum wage, Medicaid, Welfare etc)?

    Well, to me, is that not a little closer to be the model we have here in the UK than raw, undiluted capitalism? Please don’t misunderstand, I do believe that in an ethical society Government has a duty of care to its citizens, especially its weakest and those on its margins but that comes at a cost and, as you righly say often a personal one. I’m not knocking the US model and I appreciate I have overstated it to try and make a point.

    But, in the end, and taking electioneering out of the equation for a moment; the reason I asked the question the way I did, (which Rikter8 understood correctly) was because I wanted to know, in the context of recent threads; Iraq, homophobic murders, Proposed Gay marriage ban, your own thread about bill signing statements, knock and enter abuses et al was:

    If your elected leaders in their new found heroism are going to make a stand on a single issue, would you not rather it was one of those issues?

    If you don’t, then that's fine but you comments confirm what I already thought; that your priorities in a bigger picture sense are not so fickle.

    Sometimes distance can be a good thing, it adds perspective.




     
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