Dems reach 60th vote on healthcare debate

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ital8, Dec 19, 2009.

  1. ital8

    ital8 New Member

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    It looks like Sen. Ben Nelson will provide the 60th vote to prevent a filibuster for health care reform. I assume President Obama will be signing the new bill before Christmas. Any thoughts?
     
  2. RedScrotum

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    Like Howard Dean said "it's a dream come true for Insurance Companies."
     
  3. Flashy

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    leaving the moral and ethical debate about health care as a "right" aside, which is an emotional reaction, the fact is, that this particular bill is a massive mistake from a financial point of view, on every level.

    on top of that, the public is clearly against it according to all recent polls
     
  4. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    That's because of the fear mongering by the radical right. American's were fully aware of Obama's high priority of healthcare reform when they elected him. It was the most-debated issue during the election.
     
  5. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    We still have a ways to go, everyone. The bill must be passed in identical form by a majority in each house, and then it is sent to the President.

    We all seem to forget that there's also a House version of the bill as well. The House version does include some form of a Public Option. Many people wanted to blame Obama for what went wrong in the Senate. But now that we have two forms of the bill that are obviously not the same, either some kind of compromise or combination of the two bills will happen or it would be up to Obama to approve or veto it.
     
  6. RedScrotum

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    We voted for Obama for health care 'reform', not so the insurance companies lobbiests make a law that says; if your an American between 18 and 62, you now are required to pay a us ( over priced private, for profit ) insurance companies premiums every month, or we'll have your government throw your ass in jail.
    Is that health care reform?
     
  7. D_kkv06awr

    D_kkv06awr Account Disabled

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    Fear mongering by the radical right? Wow, it is hard to think that someone who is moderate, like myself, opposes healthcare because of the massive cost and the fact it is not my responsibility to work hard, save money, and pay for someone else's healthcare. The fact that the "radical right" opposes healthcare plays no part in my, and many others opposition.

    As for final passage- not likely. The liberals are pissed because they didn't get what they want- a public option. And there are way too many Democrats who come from moderate/marginal/conservative districts that have to run for reelection in 2010 without Obama at the top of the ticket to carry them. They could afford to vote for healthcare as long as they had the abortion vote to dangle as a conservative credential, but without it, forget it.

    Nancy has already forced votes on Cap and Trade, Healthcare, and is talking of forcing a vote on the Clean Water Act. How many bad votes can these conservative Dems afford? And with 12 retirements, look for your majority to be lessened, if not short lived. The fact that 5 top Dems in the Senate have troubling poll numbers (Reid is behind 10 points again any hypothetical Republican) further spells doom for healthcare.

    Ben Nelson might have announced he is 60, but don't take Blanche Lincoln, Mary Landreiu, or Jim Webb for granted. They all have to come home and explain their votes to constituents- many of whom voted Republican in every race besides the Senate.
     
  8. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    ^^^^

    Thank you, VB.

    This House bill and the Senate bill still have to be reconciled (combined into a single bill that a majority in each house can support).

    Yes, the senate version will be passed before Christmas, but Obama is hoping the actual bill, the combined, reconciled bill will be signed by his State of the Union Address, which I believe is January 20.


    I would like to take this opportunity to say I LOATHE JOE LIEBERMAN. He, and perhaps one of two other senators, have gutted a public option, have gutted the proposed Medicare expansion. I'm not even sure what's left exactly.

    The House bill currently HAS a public option in it. So when the two bills are joined into one in January, this will have to be worked out (reconciled).
     
  9. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    Oh yes. The Health care jails. :rolleyes:

    Healthcare will become part of the tax system. If you don't pay your taxes, you go to jail. This is not a new phenomenon. Taxes will not rise from universal healthcare, so what's the problem?

    More fear mongering.
     
  10. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    Which one? He changes faces each month.
     
  11. D_kkv06awr

    D_kkv06awr Account Disabled

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    Taxes won't raise from universal healthcare? How do we pay for it then? Through a "fee"? Through an increase in premiums for some so we can provide subsidies for others? I guess those aren't taxes, but if it looks like bullshit, smells like bullshit, it probably is....
     
  12. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    All of them.

    He is as gutless as the bill that is about to be passed.

    And let's not forget that he comes from the insurance capitol of the world.
     
    #12 B_Nick8, Dec 19, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2009
  13. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    What I find particularly offensive is conservatives trying to take the high road, saying, "Yes, healthcare is in trouble but the dems will not listen to our proposals!"

    Democrats have been fighting for healthcare reform FOR DECADES. Hillary Clinton was the last big push before now. The idea: this country has over 300 million residents. The "free-market" system no longer works in what has essentially become a monopolized industry where Blue Cross/Blue Shield for profit plans, United Healthcare, CIGNA and Aetna have put a stranglehold on the health insurance market.


    This country has a long history of illegal monopolies: Western Union, Standard Oil (how ironic that Standard Oil was broken up into ExxonMobil and Chevron), U.S. Steel, AT&T, Microsoft.

    This healthcare insurance racket is fighting vehemently to STOP a government public option, which will bring competition into the marketplace.


    Conservtives have never shown adequate interest in reforming the system. They WANT a free-market system, even if it means monopoly. Their hero, Milton Friedman, defended monopolies.
     
    #13 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Dec 19, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2009
  14. D_kkv06awr

    D_kkv06awr Account Disabled

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    I'm sorry, maybe I am just bitter towards taxation in general. My grandfather came to this country with nothing, worked hard, saved, and built up a decent sized farm in Florida. Upon his death, my mom and her siblings were forced to sell of parcels to pay estate taxes.

    My family depended on this farm for our living. We are not upper class people, in fact, barely middle class. But because of the "Estate Tax" we lost our livelihood. I'm sorry if I don't believe in taking from one to give to another. And despite what the majority of Democrats say, this is exactly what healthcare does- taxes one group for the sake of another. Fail it.
     
  15. lucky8

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    A new bill that, yet again, the public does not get a proper chance to read. The vote will be held at 1 a.m. in an effort to stifle public outrage. 1 a.m.? Seriously, what are they trying to hide from us?
     
  16. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    lucky8 writes:

    A new bill that, yet again, the public does not get a proper chance to read. The vote will be held at 1 a.m. in an effort to stifle public outrage. 1 a.m.? Seriously, what are they trying to hide from us?

    --------------------

    lucky8, it does not make a whit of difference whether the bill is held at 1 a.m. on Monday morning, or 8:00 p.m. on Sunday night. This is a very romantic notion on your part that dems are trying to secretively slip by a vote that, because held at 1:00 a.m., will somehow evade notice of the media and "stifle public outrage".

    Trust me, it will be all over the news, especially cable, bright and early come Monday morning. Watch the lunkheads on "Fox and Friends"; they'll be on-air sniggering & berating the vote 5 hours later, at 6 a.m.

    Congress frequently has these marathon weekend sessions when they want to get something passed NOW. The reason for the 1 a.m. vote is -- a schedule has been made out. A vote on additional funding for the troops will take place, then additional debate on healthcare reform. Republicans plan to read aloud the majority of the bill's major pages -- and they have been alloted a few hours to do this.

    You are living in dreamland if you think that a 1 a.m. vote would somehow be "different" than a vote held 7 hours earler or later. The Tea Partiers are still going to hold their protests through the weekend. Fox News & conservative talk radio will be there first thing Monday morning to do its damndest to demonize the healthcare bill. 1 a.m. (or very late-night) votes are not special during these marathon sessions. Nothing has changed.
     
  17. lucky8

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    As demonstrated in every other healthcare vote thus far, the democratic party has been slipping in amendments to every single bill that has been voted on at the very last minute, right before the vote. That is exactly what will happen with this bill...except this time it will happen at midnight when everyone is asleep...in an effort to slip it by the 150 million Americans who couldn't comprehend the bill even if they wanted to. Is honesty too much to ask for these days? These slimy politicians care nothing about you or your health. They are looking out for their jobs at any cost, relying on the ignorant, unintelligent sheeple to praise them for a bill they haven't even read. There is so much deception going on right now by everybody, that it is foolish to trust anybody. Don't rely on being told what to believe. Look at the facts, and form your own opinions. It's healthy.
     
  18. B_spiker067

    B_spiker067 New Member

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    Completely tax free health savings accounts and catastrophic insurance is how the system should work.

    Make $60,000 and put $20,000 into an HSA then your taxes start at $40,000. You can only spend that money on health care (possibly tuition) and can never take it out for anything other than health care. You could transfer money from person to person (family or charity) within the HSA paradigm.

    You'd have portability and cut the 17-23% overhead of insurance; using it to pay for actual medical services. The shopping for care would drive prices down and yet maintain cutting edge development.

    Furthermore, we should stop subsidizing Canadian and European healthcare. They should pay the same as us for drugs and medical equipment period.
     
  19. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    We all are.

    Notice how this has absolutely nothing to do with the Health Care Debate. However, it is a clear indication that you're suggesting that those who don't have health insurance need to "work harder". Let's not go there, please?

    My hubby makes barely over 6 figures a year, but since he's self employed his health care is through the roof. I make less than he does, have a better plan through my job, and yet I still can't get him on my plan. Understand that there's a significant amount of people out there who work hard, pay their own bills, and still struggle. Too many times, I find opponents to "Health Care" as those who think anyone who needs help in that regard as freeloaders who need a handout.

    Meanwhile, I'm sure if the government decided to cut down your Estate Tax you'd gladly accept that "assistance". So let's be a little honest about this.

    We should fail this reform if it doesn't take care of the needs of Americans. I know my tax dollars go to causes and programs that I'm not too fond of myself. However, I'm not so desperate to save a few pennies that I would suggest killing a bill that could potentially help millions of people live a better life, including myself, my partner and my family. Until you know what your actual dollar figure is going to be, to suggest that you don't want it is disingenuous.
     
    #19 B_VinylBoy, Dec 19, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2009
  20. Big Al

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    Excellent post :)
     
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