Denying the jewish holocaust

[Freddie53]

Why is only this holocaust against the law to deny when other genocides HAVE AND ARE being commited around the world but nothing is being done about them let alone illegalize denying them.


Why is it only illegal and offensive to deny this genocide, and most importantly why is there an act passed in 2002 in the US(not 100% sure) that anyone or any country that denys the holocaust will be monitored?

I personally see this as propaganda and as I do not trust the media in many issues and do not trust alot of the history books and events and mainly because I have not seen the holocaust, I conclude that it never happened.

Opinions?

This thread as evolved into a serious discussion of this subject, which leaves one wondering, "How come those commenting on this are still around. Since it is "illegal" to discuss or dedny the Holocaust in the USA, the police should have come and arrested people here in mass by now. The police haven't. Perhaps this is because the idea that it is "illegal" to discuss or deny the holocaust is nothing but a pitcher full of warm spit. Which says a lot agout the author of this thead. People just took this subject and changed the focus of the discussion to something worthwhile. It speaks volumes of the character of "most" of the people here at the LPSG. It also speaks volumes about the character of the person who started this thread.

Having said that. The Holocaust gets more attention in Western Europe and America for a variety of reasons:

A. It happened within the lifetimes of people still living today. As time marches on it willl receive less attention and events that have happened since then will receive more atttention.
B. The Holocaust happened in Western Europe and in the place where most Americans can trace the ancestry back too. Germany tops the list of countries people list on census forms as the place where their ancestry comes from. But the numbers of immigrants from Eastern Europe is also hgh.
C. The Holocaust happened in a Western Culture country that is also considered a "Christian" nation and the Holocaust was against a people whose most famous member was Jesus the founder of Christianity and a born Jew with a geneology record going back to Kind David himself.
D. The Holocaust was more systematic. In many of the other cases there was lots of death, but death was not the primary goal. The deaths happen as a result of natural causes due to the living conditions inflicted on the people. In the Holocaust, there was an "assembly line" of death that has been well documented.
E. The events of the Holocaust have been widely published in America and in Western Europe. There is a lot more detail. More movies, documentaries and books that have been circulated.
F. The governments of America and Western Europe have lead in a systematic public relations program to make sure that this never happens again in Western Europe or in America.
G. It is difficult to explain why we had Stalin as an ally to defeat the terrible Hitler when more people died at the hands of Stalin.
H. The people: Sometimes we just don't know why some events are etched out in people's minds more than other events. Certianly more people died at the hands of Stalin or Mao. And that knowledge is well known. But there is nothing like an oven where people are put to death to be a media event that captures a whole nation's attention.

Some of these are condensations of what others have posted. And there may be other short condensed reasons that can be given on why the Holocaust has received the attention it has received in history books. And the subject of WHY is happened is a whole different topic that begs for even more reasons and questions of why it happened in the first place. And the subject of was it worse than what Stalin did or Mao did is a third issue which is extremely subjective.

 

[B_DWTS00]

Fine, do not trust the history books, trust the books printed as history was happening. Look at Hittlers “Mein kempf” and I think you will agree that he had a real hatred for Jews and would happily put them to death if possible. Do a little rational thinking and you may come up with the idea that as dictator of a country surrounded by other vicious Jew haters he may have attempted to kill a few of them. Then read the pamphlets of the day and discover that anti-Semitism was not a small movement in Europe. It was large and growing. Now read the transcripts of the Nuremburg trials. (Or were they doctored as well?) Now read the stories of the survivors and the Germans who lived and/or worked in or around the “ghetto” and the camps.
If you are going to take the time to publicly question the holocaust then perhaps you should take the time to acquaint yourself with history. If you chose not to believe the history books then look to things printed/recorded when the event was happening. As for other genocides, they have happened, are happening and will happen again and yes, we are just to damned busy ignoring them and hoping they will go away to actually do anything.

I have no interest in reading a book by hitler, I had meine kumpf but never read it, that guy was an idiot.

Yes, I do intend on reading more about it, but not now as Im reading other stuff.

As for the part in bold, my main point in this thread was "WHY IS IT ONLY ILLEGAL TO DENY THE JEWSISH HOLOCAUST AND NOT OTHERS?" This law clearly defies freedom of speech, maybe we should make saying the war on iraq was a hoax and imprison people for @least 1 year with a fine of 10,000 minimum how would you feel about that???? not so good eh?

 

[Lex]

I have no interest in reading a book by hitler, I had meine kumpf but never read it, that guy was an idiot.

Yes, I do intend on reading more about it, but not now as Im reading other stuff.

As for the part in bold, my main point in this thread was "WHY IS IT ONLY ILLEGAL TO DENY THE JEWSISH HOLOCAUST AND NOT OTHERS?" This law clearly defies freedom of speech, maybe we should make saying the war on iraq was a hoax and imprison people for @least 1 year with a fine of 10,000 minimum how would you feel about that???? not so good eh?

A few key points:

1. Perhaps you should limit your discussion until AFTER you are well read on the subject matter.
2. That may have been your intended key point but it is not the point you argued. Why not use other examples lesser known, realized, and studied to make your point?

You are barely missing the troll depths by INCHES.

 

[B_DWTS00]

Shut up you f---ing bigot. It sounds like you're not entirely convinced the holocaust happened. I definitely sense a strong whiff of anti-Semitism and I resent you using this forum for your misguided racial hatred that probably is an attempt to cover up some personal inadequacy.
As for your obviously misinformed and foolish question, why in some countries is it only illegal to deny the holocaust, there are a few reasons:
1. There has never been another genocide on the same scale as the holocaust. There have been other genocides but not of the same degree.
2. Jews have been persecuted for centuries, long before the holocaust. At some point it has to stop.
3. It's a common tactic for bigots to deny the holocaust. Holocaust denial is outlawed in some countries because it's been a common phenomenon.

By the way, that job you didn't get, that girl you didn't get, or that general failure you feel your life has been - just so you know it wasn't the Jews fault. Yeah, I sense some definite bigotry.

WAH WAH WAH:tongue: ...............:biggrin1:

In all dead pan honest, if you really subscribe to the notion that such an atrocity wasn't real, depsite concrete proof, IE, pictures of victims, the ovens, NUREMBERG trial, & testimony, then you really don't deserve any leway for getting into trouble.

Documents are easy to fake, why should I get into trouble because of denying this holocaust only? and why should anyone get in any trouble because of denying anything? read the 1st AM lately?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

You want proof? There are fewer than about 5,000 actual Schindler jews left in the world who could you give more than valuable insight to this.
What, you think a person wanted a tattoo with #'s on their arm as a way of identifying them?

Again I could tattoo that Im satan on my arm, doesnt mean shit.

Millions & millions of a single race being exterminated for no real applicable reason in the worlds possibly biggest & maybe the 1st case of actual racial profiling that was fatal.
Why don't you dig your fat head outta your ass & realize that this was real.

*BULLSHIT ALERT*

The Armenian genocide where almost 1.5 million Armenian people were killed during 1895-1923......Ring a bell?????

Also I quote from wikipedia:

About 220,000 Sinti and Roma were killed in the Holocaust (some estimates are as high as 800,000), between a quarter to a half of the European population. Other groups deemed "racially inferior" or "undesirable": Soviet military prisoners of war and civilians on occupied territories including Russians and other Slavs, Poles (3 million Polish Jews, and 2 million Polish gentiles, total 5 million Poles killed in Holocaust), the mentally or physically disabled, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Communists and political dissidents, trade unionists, Freemasons, and some Catholic and Protestant clergy, were also persecuted and killed. Many scholars do not include the Nazi persecution of all of these groups in the definition of the Holocaust, with some scholars limiting the Holocaust to the genocide of the Jews; some to genocide of the Jews, Roma, and disabled; and some to all groups targeted by Nazi racism.[2] Taking all these other groups into account, however, the total death toll rises considerably, estimates generally place the total number of Holocaust victims at 9 to 11 million, though some estimates have been as high as 26 million.[3]

And ofcourse if you dig your head out of your ass you can read about more of them which supposedly happened in history and stop seeing it from one point of view.

Making believe that an atrocity of the holocaust's magnitude was fake is just WRONG. And i wouldn't want to be anywhere near you if said it out loud near someone/body who was a survivor.

when an argument has:

-"It's just wrong......"

-"but I know......"

-"But ma dadddy told me....."

-"Everyone knows......"

-"I dont need to prove it, its true......"

Then usually, the argument is no more than pure bullshit, exceptions happen ofcourse, rarely though.

As for the rest of the comments, I think some of the memebers here have covered them very well, better than I could've.

 

[Chuck64]

You are barely missing the troll depths by INCHES.

I hope he takes that as a challenge to try harder... I'm still waiting to see

DWTS00
I was Banned.

BTW - The title of Hitler's infamous literary work is Mein Kampf. An english translation of the book can be found here.

 

[D_alex8]

I hope he takes that as a challenge to try harder... I'm still waiting to see

DWTS00
I was Banned.

There should be no doubt that he knows exactly what he's up to here, or that he has touted his line in anti-Semitic filth prior to this elsewhere:
http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/member.php?u=47383

If his three counts of mindless outright Holocaust denial on this thread so far aren't enough to have him banned, then maybe the juvenile personal attacks in his post#44 are.

 

[B_DWTS00]

Ill reply to this above message and the rest later, I have to go now.

 

[AlteredEgo]

The holocaust happened. I have met a survivor. I have also met many people who are progeny of survivors, including descendents of Polish royalty, who not only have no heirlooms, but when they got to other countries, the spelling of their names was changed as well. This hits home with me, because it sounds very similar to the black diaspora. I have the whitest last name ever. It even appears in the english dictionary. I'm positive that the names of the people my folks came from don't appear in Webster's.

 

[D_alex8]

One of Hitler's favored tactics was to inititate debates that appeared very rational on the surface --- about animal cruelty, or economic growth, for example --- so that he gave the semblance, to all outward appearances, of having genuine interest and concern with regard to these matters. In fact, these were of course a mere facade for inherent anti-Semitic messages.

Likewise, the debate here has been crafted so that it gives the semblance of being an exposé of a serious issue ... that of genocide and mass-killing throughout recent world history... whereas in fact, it seems to me, it is merely a front for denying the Holocaust and daring to question the veracity of Holocaust survivors. While a very meaningful debate has unquestionably ensued, I don't think it had anything to do with the OP's real purpose here.

 

[AlteredEgo]

I'm glad it haqppened,(this thread, that is) Alex, because I was reminded of things I'd long forgotten. I might re-read some things sometime soon.

 

[D_alex8]

I'm glad it happened,(this thread, that is) Alex, because I was reminded of things I'd long forgotten. I might re-read some things sometime soon.

I'm certainly glad it happened here, Bronxie, where it could be taken in an insightful and intelligent direction. I dread to think where it might have ended up on certain other boards, however, where the apparent intent might not have been countered with such lucid responses.

 

[novice_btm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck64
I hope he takes that as a challenge to try harder... I'm still waiting to see

DWTS00
I was Banned.

There should be no doubt that he knows exactly what he's up to here...

He knows what he's up to in general. People, people, people! The subject is irrelevant. His whole modus operandi is to make a volatile statement, that he KNOWS will send everyone over the edge (this time the Holocaust, last time fighting for free speech regarding incest), wait for someone to bite, then fight for the most annoying position he can just so he can see how pissed off he can make everyone.

 

[smalldickboy]

to all of you dumb biggots, a very close friend of mine's grandma was a Holocaust survivor and yes I have seen THE tattoo.

all i can say to anyone who denies it is I sincerely wish you the slowest, most painful, lonely and hellish death possible. rot in hell you dumb twats.

 

[Dr Rock]

What I am saying is that if you read what the defendants admitted to and what high ranking officials said it is difficult not to draw conclusions.

and you believe those transcripts are accurate? you'll notice, if you've investigate it, that despite almost constant radio recording and TV filming of the trials' opening stages, these media were strangely absent from the sentencing and concluding sessions of almost all high-ranking prisoners' trials.

As for the part in bold, my main point in this thread was "WHY IS IT ONLY ILLEGAL TO DENY THE JEWSISH HOLOCAUST AND NOT OTHERS?"

if you need to be told, you clearly haven't bothered checking it out very far. there are powerful pro-israeli military/industrial lobbies in the american and british governments who made and continue to make a great deal of money from the establishment of, and ongoing conflicts within, the state of israel. it is directly beneficial to their business plan to encourage pro-israeli policies and sympathies in other countries. they fear that if large numbers of people were led to question the events leading up to the creation of israel, their own (often "ethically murky") business practises regarding the israeli government could be called into question. yes, this is a direct insult to basic human intelligence, but what else is new where corporate government is concerned.


I don't recommend mein kampf to anyone but the most depressingly dedicated political students. the book is so excruciatingly badly-written as to be totally unreadable. whatever hitler's oratory talents, i can assure you that they did NOT translate to his prose.

 

[steve2727]

I hope he takes that as a challenge to try harder... I'm still waiting to see

DWTS00
I was Banned.

And there he goes!! Good he was really starting to get on my nerves.:biggrin1:

 

[Webster]

to all of you dumb biggots, a very close friend of mine's grandma was a Holocaust survivor and yes I have seen THE tattoo.

all i can say to anyone who denies it is I sincerely wish you the slowest, most painful, lonely and hellish death possible. rot in hell you dumb twats.

_______________________________________
The grandparents of my partner died at Buchenwald (sp?) Death Camp.

Anyone in doubt should go to Washington, D.C. to tour the memorial where you can "relive" the horror through pictures and recordings.

There will always be people who deny atrocities..........

 

[windtalkerways]

To Rob and the Moderators of this site

A huge and heartfelt

THANK YOU!!!!!!

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

He's gone? Ooh, small mercies ....

 

[LazyKing]

Well, all I gotta say is that kid is a moron. If HE ever went to high school, he probably would have been required to study World War 2 and the Holocaust, and would have been showen acouple of those holocaust videos, which show a lot of disgusting stuff.

And, war is war. He said he thought that all the civilians that were killed during bombing raids during wars was genocide? wtf. Genocide means to intenally kill a race of people, for the sole reason of getting rid of them. I hardly think the pilots of bombers are wanting to kill LOTS and LOTS of cvilians. DWT you are in fact, a moron.

LazyKing

 

[steve2727]

And, war is war. He said he thought that all the civilians that were killed during bombing raids during wars was genocide? wtf. Genocide means to intenally kill a race of people, for the sole reason of getting rid of them. I hardly think the pilots of bombers are wanting to kill LOTS and LOTS of cvilians.

Actually the bombing campaigns on both sides in WW2 deliberately targetted civillians. The bombers weren't accurate enough to target factories for most of the war (a lot of time they ended up bombing the wrong city) so they bombed the worker's houses instead, partly to try and break morale and partly to disrupt work in the factories by killing the workers and making them homeless. The term genocide doesn't really apply, but the massive civillian casualties certainly weren't unintentional. The worst example was probably the RAF turning the city of Dresden into a fireball when it was already clear Germany had lost the war.