Depiction of homosexuality in TVs, Movies, etc is a bit disappointing

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by lopo2000, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. lopo2000

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    I'm sorry, I'm just trying to find a channel to rant. It's just that very, very rare that I find a show or movie that shows how we are gay not by choice. I mean, for me personally, I suddenly find at some point of my life that I like guys. And I also have never found myself a case where someone "is fed up with his last disastrous relationship with his ex-gf so perhaps things will work out with a guy," or "thinks of exploring other options because having sex with a member of the opposite sex is not the only thing existing in the world," or "finds her bf is not so fun anymore, and kisses a girl and likes it."

    Of course some cases are like that, but isn't it more accurate to say that homosexuality is something that feels like it has been hardwired inside our own selves? People here tend to think that when something is by choice, so it's wrong, that is if it's out of the norm, in psychology called as naturalistic fallacy.

    And homosexuality is not just about sex, I mean I'm gay but if a girl strokes my dick up and down it'll still erect. But, it's about emotion, physical connection, psychology and all those things that make it deeper than a one-night-stand thingy.

    I really don't know what's right though, but all my life I have been proving to others how I didn't choose to be gay. But because of these TV shows and movies, I have always been lectured and told, or even bashed that it's sinful and wrong and abnormal, you must marry a girl and it's sick and you have to go to the doctor...bla bla

    *finished ranting
     
  2. scottredleter

    scottredleter New Member

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    I find it more empowering to claim the choice. I fully believe that we are hard wired, but there's so many things in the world around us that affect it too. I like chocolate over vanilla... am I hard wired to choose chocolate? I don't know, nor do I really care. It doesn't mean that i can't decide to choose vanilla when i want to. The part about sexuality being hard wired that bugs me is that it causes me to be some kind of victim... "don't hate me, I'm just a victim of my genes (or whatever)". It seems like a cop-out to me... I choose to be gay... it's up to me alone. I can choose to have sex with women... I can choose to get married to a woman... i don't choose to... so bring on all the lectures and bashing... call me abnormal and sinful... it's my choice and there is simply nothing that anybody can do about it, and the made-up myths and legends of silly religious beliefs is the last thing that will ever make me choose otherwise
     
  3. lopo2000

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    You got your point there. But, we're living in different cultures, so the way people look at homosexuality can be somewhat different. I believe that I'm a victim here by my genes, or whatsoever, because i didn't choose. I remember when I was in my high school, I suddenly had this tendency to look at guys and adore them, thinking, "wow, he's handsome, I wish I could be like him." So, year after year, admiration became sexual. I didn't even know the admiration is so critical. I didn't choose that.

    But, if it gives you the empowerment, then it's good, since gays can live happily and peacefully at your place. If I start to tell people how proud I am being gay here, that's the time my face got swollen, or my legs got broken, or anything that results from being beaten up...

    But sadly, too, American TVs and movies are very very prevalent here...
     
  4. cdarro

    cdarro New Member

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    Sorry, I'm outside the culture, but if you claim your sexuality is a choice, aren't you playing into the hands of the conformists (for want of a better word)?
    I mean, I 've never woken up some morning and thought, "well, today I'm going to be attracted to men". But I have a lot of friends who should know better that think that gay men and women switch back and forth from day to day.

    But don't let movies tell you what's wrong or right. Movies are aimed at the largest demographic with money to spend, young horny insecure suburban white kids.

    Or have I completely missed your point?
     
  5. lopo2000

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    :pat: but I'm not completely lost in your argument here. :) Just the first part of your post is directed to me or to the other poster?

    You're right that we shouldn't let movies tell us what's right and what's wrong, but unfortunately the question of whether being gay is a deliberate intention or the opposite seems to be a black or white issue, people here just don't understand... They somehow are affected by movies...
     
  6. True_Blue

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    For some people the case may be that they do choose to be gay, or bi, or curious...whatever. That doesn't mean that it's a choicefor everyone. Me and a very good friend of mine agrue all the time over it. She says she has always been attracted to girls and that she wants to try a 3some because she "needs a man there". She refuses to believe that some people are just wired that way. I have been attracted to guys since I was in kindergarten. I didn't know what it was then but I knew I liked boys and I didn't know why. No one can say or do anything to make me believe that a 5-year-old boy just "decides" to like boys. Why would I risk my safety? Getting in fights and picked on all the time because people didn't like me because I acted different than them. Why would I risk losing my family? Who'd risk their mom, dad, brothers, sisters, cousins, etc. for something like that?
     
  7. lopo2000

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    You just described me too! I totally understand you, being picked and all, hell my high school was never sweet. And in my university years, I have tried to be all discreet and the journey was somewhat nice, but the people who found out I'm gay made the road a bit bumpy sometimes, but then I guess it was just a challenge I had to endure.
     
  8. cdarro

    cdarro New Member

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    I guess I could have been clearer, I was addressing you , but in a backhanded way my comments could apply to the 2nd poster. For me sexuality is not a choice, it's the way I am. I don't really understand how it could be a choice, either straight, gay or bi. It's something so fundamental to my self and personality that "choosing" would be akin to changing eye color or height. Just not an option. I think I have an inkling of what he means in that considering it his choice he feels it empowers him (if I understand what he's saying) but it doesn't ring true to me. Do I empower myself by considering myself tall if I am short? Or I am I missing the point again?
     
  9. True_Blue

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    Yea it sucked intensely. And what made it worse for me was that I was in denial back then, despite how obvious it was.
     
  10. lopo2000

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    and I told myself that I need a brotherly figure in my life...how lame! funny when remember it sometimes....
     
  11. lopo2000

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    Perhaps your question this time can be answered by him, but it's the way I understand it too. You're right, choosing something very deep and hardwired can be a tricky thing to do. It may backfire. It did when I tried to "turn to a straight guy" before. Not only I hurt some people, but the lies got worse it affected my life in general.

    Thank you though. Glad to read your comments.
     
  12. NCbear

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    For some people, it *is* a choice. For others, there's only a limited number of ways that they are turned on, and those ways determine their sexuality.

    Why can't it be this simple?

    NCbear (who thinks that religious beliefs, based on moral strictures and folkways codified by people who didn't and don't understand or appreciate human sexuality, are probably at the root of the reason why it's not this simple in most cultures :rolleyes:)
     
  13. lopo2000

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    you make sense :)

    it's very very complicated, especially in my culture though...
     
  14. Sergeant_Torpedo

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    What! Looking for connection or truth in tv soap opera? Soap is entertainment (of a very popular but unreal genre) and is there to sell product not give a true or philosophical account of our lives or emotions. And why does it always have to be so egocentric when people can't have their own way about lige on this site. Live with it, and maybe support someone with a real problem.
     
  15. lopo2000

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    Well, sergeant, you're straight, as you indicated over there, and until you are in my shoes, I don't think you'd understand. So, plz stop telling me about the egocentric thingy because when you can't understand it and bash it right there and base your comment on your own understanding, what do we call it then?

    I never say the soaps have the truth, I really hope you read each post and reply I did in here. I rest my case.

    Anyways, do you know this is the second time you just barged in with very biased opinions that seems so obviously biased? I said this because some people can hide it really well and they state their opinions like it CAN be wrong...
     
  16. skwirl

    skwirl New Member

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    To reply to the title of your thread...

    Notice how every major Hollywood movie, and many even Oscar nominated, have storylines that only end in tragedy for the gay protagonist...

    Milk
    Brokeback Mountain
    Boys Don't Cry
    Gods and Monsters
    Philidelphia

    I can only think of The Birdcage as a mainstream movie where the characters were not "punished" for being gay, and in the end got to live life as they were.

    Hollywood claims to be homo-friendly but are very reluctant for the Happily-Ever-After storyline it would be nice to see once in awhile.
     
  17. lopo2000

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    Very true...

    I like one gay storyline in Brothers and Sisters though... The name of the character is Kevin. He's been loved by his family and he got a hot loving husband. I think this is the one gay storyline that depicts and suggests the society how gays should be treated like, because we're all humans too...
     
  18. FuzzyKen

    FuzzyKen New Member

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    Television, movies, and mainstream entertainment media are all about money and this also means ratings.

    Examples cited in movies are in some ways somewhat misleading. Milk, is a movie based on a true story. Harvey Milk was indeed killed by Dan White at a time which was very different than it is today. Because it is a documentary even with "artistic liberties" based on the real life of a real individual from the time past, and because that individual came to a rather unhappy end, there is no way in which the movie could do differently and keep credibility.

    Brokeback Mountain was based on a book written by a heterosexual female. Anne Prolux. Her book takes a subject that was forbidden and sets it in a time and location where education about homosexuality and anything else was not necessarily the best. People have problems and again times are changing as are sentiments in all but a few extremely conservative circles.

    Philadelphia was again a story set at a given time. The fact that these movies displayed and portrayed bigotry, homophobia and horrific mistreatment of individuals based on orientation is a true representation of life in some areas and in some periods of time.

    Religious figures were horribly afraid of "Milk", "Brokeback Mountain" and "Philadelphia" because these films showed stupidity and bigotry for what it was. Pat Robertson railed on and on with regards to "Brokeback Mountain" and did everything he could to prevent his "flock of sheep" from viewing the film and seeing it for themselves. If they had they might have started to re-examine their own bigoted views and his own bigoted reinforcement of those views.

    There are other movies depicting homosexuality that have been outstanding. The film "It's My Party" with Gregory Harrison and Eric Roberts is an incredible film. People worked for scale and less to get that film made. There are established stars in that film that do not even get screen credit because they wanted this made. For those not familiar, the film goes back to a time before protease inhibitors and very graphically shows death from HIV related opportunistic infection. It also shows true love portrayed very well between two men and these are played by Eric Roberts and Gregory Harrison.
    The film deals with lives in crisis and the homosexuality itself is not the cause of this crisis. The cause is a retrovirus.

    "Love Valor and Compassion" is another film that is NOT judgmental on homosexuality but is a view into the lives of a group of gay men. These men are portrayed again at a time when HIV treatment was not where it is now. There is sadness in this film, but it is a great film none the less.

    For Film Media that is definitely not a punishment situation here are some that are out there.

    "Relax it's Just Sex" stars Mitchell Anderson and Paul Winfield as the best known names. This film has comedic moments and some that are not, but, there is no where in this film any condemnation of homosexuality or really bad endings to homosexual characters. The film is a view into the lives of a group of friends, many of which happen to be gay. It was filmed in Silverlake which is a Los Angeles Gay Ghetto. It is a decent film and also does NOT I repeat NOT play on stereotypes in a negative manner.

    "Billy's Hollywood Screen Kiss" is the first film outing for Sean Hayes who later played the very flamboyant "Jack Mac Farland" on "Will and Grace". The film deals on a young gay man trying to find his place in life. Sean Hayes character is far more subdued and less stereotypical than that of the annoying and always "camp", "Jack MacFarland".

    Television has had several outings that have not been derogatory and there are some now which are decent portrayals.

    A ground-breaking television series which aired on "Showtime Entertainment" was "Brothers". This show portrayed the lives of three Brothers. One of these the youngest portrayed by Paul Regina was very definitely gay and the comedy centered around his adventures with his best friend "Donald Maltby" portrayed brilliantly by Phillip Charles MacKenzie. The show was a comedy and it was hilarious and factual doing the best it could at the time it ran. The supporting cast included Robert Walden, Brandon Maggart, Hallie Todd (daughter of character actress Ann-Morgan Guilbert) and Robin Riker Hasley. This show ran for a very long time.

    The current television line up has several shows with accurate portrayals of gay characters.

    Hollywood is really not judgmental except on what will make money. It never has been judgmental unless it was a time when it was fighting for it's life. This was the case regarding the Hayes Commission.

    The best explanation to date is actually a film documentary. That film is "The Celluloid Closet" and it tells the entire story and will show you tons of homosexual roles, the thoughts and the fights over homosexuality in film. It was available on VHS, and I have a VHS copy of it. Personally, I worked in Hollywood first in Music then as a props supplier until my attempt at retirement. There is a great deal of film out there and it has taken place over many decades giving many contradicting portrayals on the subject.

    There are numerous films I have not mentioned simply because this post could drone on endlessly. Do not judge Hollywood or the film Industry in any manner by the five films you have cited. There are many more with differing portrayals and story endings.
     
  19. sxjTheFirst

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    Fuzzyken: :clap: :clap:

    It's become so easy to blame Hollywood for all the evils of the world.

    Remember folks wars would still be around if they didn't make war movies. :)
    Homophobia existed long before movies and TV did.
     
  20. lopo2000

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    Really wish I could watch some of them... gay movies are not really allowed in here... Thank you!!!
     
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