Depression

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah, Jul 1, 2008.

  1. D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah

    D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah Account Disabled

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    My curiosity has gotten the better of me and now i have to wonder how you know if you have depression are just having a few shitty days that are getting you down.

    Sure there are the text book stock standard symptoms like anxiety, wavering emotions, isolating yourself etc. But how long does it have to continue before one can say they have a problem and how serious do the symptoms need to be?

    And then you have your different types of depression, bio polar, Psychotic depression, Atypical depression, Melancholic depression, Non-Melancholic depression, Post natal, anxiety, Dysthymia, Seasonal Affective Disorder, Postpartum Depression

    Anyone would be excused for thinking they have depression just by that list alone.

    anyway

    Of course depression exists, no doubt about it BUT when do you draw the line between having a shitty day and needing professional help before letting things go to far?
     
  2. D_Jurgen Klitgaard

    D_Jurgen Klitgaard Account Disabled

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    You can't tell. I didn't even know till my doctor suggested it when I went in for a checkup for irregular heart beats. I got the tests done for my heart, and they all came back negative. I got some trial anti-depressants and I haven't even had one heart scare. It's funny, but they say that depression can cause heart irregularities. It can control a lot of your functioning and you don't even know it.

    Now I'm just trying to get an appointment to see an actual counselor so I can get a real synopsis from a professional and to talk about some of the things that possibly made me depressed.
     
  3. goldeneye

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    I'm firmly in between those lines; I drink. Cheers!

    ...You, of course, may not prefer this path. Talk to your general physician; he or she will be able to guide you in the proper direction, be it some advice to take some personal time and relax, or a suggestion of some medication, or a referral to a therapist if needed.

    Excuse me; I need a refill.
     
  4. ManlyBanisters

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    Most of my behaviour and feelings that could be called depression are either hormonal (effects me way more than it used to) or happen at times of extreme stress. Other than I always consider it being 'just a bit down' - I watch a weepy movie or read Anna Karenina, cry my fucking eyes out and feel much better for it. The other thing I do is get out in the sunshine (if there is any) and take the dog for a long walk. It's so beautiful around here, even in the rain actually, that I can't help but count my blessings when I do that. The very fact that I can 'cure' the blues in those ways suggests to me that I get 'a bit down' rather than get 'depressed'.

    I've never felt the need to seek help, although that doesn't mean I've never needed it. I think if it went on for any length of time I'd start considering talking to my GP - he's a very practical and easy going doctor, I have confidence in him. I wouldn't trust any mental health issues I thought I might have to a stranger. I do recall a time in my early 20s when I was shifting between euphoria and misery a lot - thinking back I should have got help then rather than struggling through it alone.
     
  5. TurkeyWithaSunburn

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    It's not based on a couple days.

    When you're talking about the feelings of hopelessness, helplessness, extreme loss/increase in appetite, changes in sleep patterns, feelings of suicide, that goes on for a month or 2, or 6 that some chemical intervention/therapy helps.
     
  6. D_Jurgen Klitgaard

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    See, I felt all of that except the suicide. I was having a hell of a time with my sleep patterns, it just about made me want to cry. I was staying awake till almost 8 in the morning, and then sleeping till the afternoon. It was such a vicious cycle.
     
  7. ManlyBanisters

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    A lot of people I have known who have sleep issues have found the following interesting.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549823/Gene-explains-why-people-are-night-owls.html

    'After Hours' Gene Stretches Body Clock To 27-hour-day

    Not saying this is definitely the case for you but it can be easier to cope with a sleep problem when you can think of it as physiological rather than as a psychological disorder. Changing how you exercise and your sunlight intake can have a marked effect on the physiological. It might help.
     
  8. TurkeyWithaSunburn

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    Lack of sleep can start causing huge downward spirals. Oh life is good but life starts to get busy so you go from 8hrs of sleep a night to 4hrs for a while. You'll be exhausted and show signs of depression.
     
  9. D_Jurgen Klitgaard

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    I've heard about the sunlight intake being a vital part. I do need to get some more.

    It really started for me one day when I had this freakish allergic-type reaction, just out of the blue. It had me out of comission for the whole day, and after that, I was fucked on my sleep for a little over two weeks straight. The Dr. did blood tests and EKG tests on my heart, and he thought it was depression instead. And after answering some of his questions, I began to see that he was right. Ever since I've been on this trial medication, I've been sleeping great (except for the past few night. I've always been a night owl anyways), I've been very upbeat, and even able to be calm and cool in public. The only drawback was they were zapping the life out of my libido and making it almost impossible to ejaculate and orgasm for the first week or so. Now if that doesn't make you depressed, I don't know what will.:rolleyes:

    I've got another follow up appointment tomorrow to talk about how the pills have been working out.
     
  10. D_Jurgen Klitgaard

    D_Jurgen Klitgaard Account Disabled

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    I've never been an 8hrs a night kind of guy, always more like 5. It's the way I've always been. But when I can't fall asleep till dawn then waste my whole day in bed, that's when I started to get really bummed.
     
  11. ManlyBanisters

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    Well - I'm gald you are getting somewhere with it - but don't forget to mention the libido issue tomorrow. I don't know if that type of stuff is likely to embarass you, but, if it does, do try to get past that and mention it anyway. That kind of feedback is important to the doctors and you don't want to be left on medication that saps your libido because everything else was fine and you never mentioned it.
     
  12. D_Jurgen Klitgaard

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    I think I've gotten past that actually, I've been jerking off every night and been able to cum just fine. And I am still getting horny as hell. A friend of mine was amazed that I was still as horny as I am while on anti-depressants. It was the two hours of masturbations with a dismal orgasm that was pissing me off when I first when on the stuff. I'm actually on my second medication because the first one was causing those problems, along with some others. They made me yawn uncontrollably. The worst this new stuff did was dialate my pupils for a while once they took effect, but that has passed I believe.

    One minute I would be fine, the next it was like I had tunnel vision. I go to look in the mirror and it looks like I'm stoned.
     
  13. thedrainman

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    "You can't tell. I didn't even know till my doctor suggested it when I went in for a checkup for irregular heart beats. I got the tests done for my heart, and they all came back negative. I got some trial anti-depressants and I haven't even had one heart scare. It's funny, but they say that depression can cause heart irregularities. It can control a lot of your functioning and you don't even know it. - Mr Hardcock"

    I had a similar reaction last year when my cat died - have never felt grief that ever before in 62 years. I could not go out for some time as I just spontaneously burst into tears. The night he died, my heart kept stopping and then restarting - not just missing a beat - I just did not care (did not tell my wife or it would have been a hospital trip)!! It took eight months to get back to normal, though I found exercise was very beneficial when it started playing up, as this knocked it back into rhythm. All not helped by being a diabetic. I did not bother with treatment as all that was on offer were beta-blockers and these would have fouled up the diabetic treatment.

    I knew I was upset, but there is a big difference between clinical depression and just being very p*ssed off. The other thing to bear in mind, as Mr Hardcock found, is that the treatment can be worst than the symptoms.

    Best cure - get out and enjoy some fresh air - easy for me as I live in a beautiful part of the UK, and a walk on the cliffs or beach is great.
     
  14. MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK

    MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK Well-Known Member

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    Most of my recent frustration/depression has been on a par of work. Typically 'cause my transfer is somehow bein' put on the back burner with me noticing and quite possibly being underminded by the current GSM.

    No chemical intervention has necessary,at least anymore than my usual meds, unless you count my sedatives just in case of one panic attack, which has almost happened.

    Tho, with this kind of depression, I'm seriously considering going to my doc & asking his opinion about soome kind of anti depression med.
     
  15. naughty

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    Workin' up a good pot of mad!
    As you can see, it is best to be diagnosed professionally. Sometimes you are just reacting to the normal highs and lows of what life has thrown your way. What I have experienced have been: Sleep disturbance, weight gain, brain synapses,apathy, irritability, withdrawal from activities, FATIGUE! It affects each person differently in terms of the particular cocktail of symptoms but at least some of them have to exist for a particular period of time in a degree of severity for a diagnosis to be made.
     
  16. Skull Mason

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    If you can separate yourself from the ego you will recognize that you are not "depressed". Your ego is just telling you that, because people are drawn unconsciously to feeling pain, to feeling the blues. Your ego needs identification and if it can identify with feeling the blues or being depressed it will. The key for you is to become aware of it. Recognize it is your ego, and not who you are-your Being, that is making you feel like you do and asking the questions you are asking.

    Help comes from within, seeking professional help is just seeking someone who guides you to finding help within, because it can not come from anywhere else. No amount of money or love may cause your ego to dissipate, in fact, it will only strengthen it, and soon enough you will find yourself in the "blues" again. Lottery winners are an example of this.

    Find the reasons why you are feeling shitty, and ask yourself if they are somehow tied into your past, the story of you (or me my and I), or linked to your future. Because if they are, you will never let yourself Be, to exist in this moment, because this moment is all you really have. It is life.

    You are not a congregation of mostly false memories from your past, and the emotional reactions your ego has tied to those experiences. When people bring that story with them into the present, they are not truly present. You are acting out a story and this belief made up by your ego on how you are supposed to be, but you are not truly present or conscious in the situation of now. Whatever that has happened in "your past" is not who you are. It is gone. Memory is faulty, and emotions are egoic mind reactions that are often way off base. Anger, frustration, jealousy, depression; they serve no benefit to you and your body and your spirit and your Being, your existence. They cause your immune system to become weak. They make you sick. They are just identifications for your mind to identify with. Defensiveness, or people who react emotionally to anything are carrying with them their story of me.

    By the way, it is very easy to recognize your ego, especially in times of "depression". Do you hear that voice in your head when you are in bed at night and can't sleep? That voice that is "thinking" for you? That is your ego. Recognize how when you are thinking those thoughts that your body is reacting to it.

    See how your body and emotions are affected by that voice in your head. What is the voice complaining about? Bills? Someone owes you money? Wish you could have that missed touchdown pass back in the high school state championship game that you lost? SO what. None of those things bear any resemblance of who you are. In fact, words can't describe who you are, because they are just simply words. Your heart begins to beat faster, you may perspire a bit, and then that further feeds your ego and it becomes a vicious cycle between your hungry ego and your emotional reactions to it, and you get no sleep.

    Fear not, for most of the world is unconscious. Your job is to become conscious. You become enlightened by first becoming aware. Any time you feel yourself reacting negatively to something, or feeling like shit, recognize that it is not you. You may say, "there is unhappiness within me", but YOU are not unhappy, YOU are not depressed. YOU are life, YOU are living, and nothing more and nothing less. Be at peace with there being unhappiness within you, because you will see that you are better off being at peace with unhappiness within you rather than fighting it constantly and letting your ego feed on you. Don't sit there and try to find happiness. Just be at peace with however your ego is making you feel. Once you are at peace with there being some unhappiness inside of you, there is space created around that unhappiness, and that unhappiness becomes you no more. That space is awareness. That space is separation from the ego.
     
    #16 Skull Mason, Jul 1, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2008
  17. D_Portelay Porquesword

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    Words of truth. I have applied this to my own life and it is the difference between day and night.

    Good job Skull Mason.
     
  18. WifeOfBath

    WifeOfBath New Member

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    Skull, that's all great and I think it's a good philosophy to live by, but profound clinical depression (not the blues, not stress-induced, anxiety, not grief, etc.) is a completely different animal. Clinical depression robs you of the ability to feel, function, and have anything resembling a rational mind. People ask depressed people all the time why they are depressed. A truly depressed person will look at you in complete bewilderment because clinical depression exists by and of itself.

    I've written a lot about depression and mental illness on this site, and though I don't
    wish to reprise it here because I don't have much time or brain power, it's something that even professionals, specifically general practitioners, don't really understand. Even psychiatrists and therapists have only limited tools in their arsenal. Most people confuse depression with a normal reaction to a negative event-- you're going to feel devastated after you break up with a significant other. However, if, two months later, you're unable to get out of bed or stop crying and you see no reason to live, it's probably progressed further than just normal grief and sadness.

    I'm bipolar and I've experienced depression, mania, sadness, and loss. The first two make me feel like my soul has been hijacked. I lose my sense of self, my rational thinking, and my ability to enjoy anything when I'm depressed. When I'm manic it's worse-- I get so agitated that thinking is nearly impossible because the noise in my head is so lound. The second two suck, but they get better with some coping skills and working to get out of a rut.

    I think the term depression is overused, even by professionals and pharmaceutical companies hoping to extend their market base. A lot of people get stuck in a rut of one sort or another, and just need to learn coping skills (similar to what Skull wrote) and patience. People seem to forget that sadness and grief are a part of the human condition. There are times in your life when feeling like shit is completely normal. If you're not where you want to be in life and you don't have any sense of purpose, you should feel like shit. Seeing a therapist might help you find the tools to get up and get out. However, when you're so disabled that the therapy can't work because you can't think, can't get out of bed, can barely hold a conversation, and have no idea who you are anymore, that's probably depression.

    Depression is profound and disabling. Medication doesn't fix it-- but it does help restore a sort of affective normalcy so that you can function and hopefully use that to get better. The idea of depression has been cheapened and overused by our society, to the detriment of people suffering from both normal emotional sadness and grief and to people with profound mental illness.
     
  19. simcha

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    This is all nice and good and stuff. But basically it's the stuff that Eckhart Tolle outlines in "The Power of Now." It's a book that really should have been about 10 pages because it says the same thing over and over and over again... The mind is a powerful tool. You are not your mind. You are no-mind. So get "mind" out of the way and stop listening to it. Instead tell your "mind" what you want it to do and you will find peace...

    All of that is fine and good unless you are clinically depressed! People who are mearly "blue" and "sad" and plainly just being "neurotic" can follow that practice and find their way out.

    If you are clinically depressed you have much more to deal with. If you've never been clinically depressed yourself you will not understand completely what people who suffer from clinical depression experience.

    I strongly disagree with Eckhart Tolle about our basic nature because I'm Holistic. I believe that we are body, mind, soul, and spirit all at the same time. We are embodied beings.

    When you are clinically depressed, it's in your body, mind, soul, and spirit. You must treat the whole person in order to become well again. Eckhart Tolle uses a couple hundred pages to explain something very simple that does work for one part of the person, your mind. You must attend to the mind. You must come to a realization that the mind is a powerful tool to be used to help yourself climb out of the pit you are in. You must silence the "committee" that chatters negativity in the recesses of your mind. That is a "must do."

    And, you must treat the body. Depression actually shrinks parts of the brain. It attacks your immune system. It affects all parts of the body. You must find a way to treat the body. Drugs (prescriptions or other drugs or herbs like St. John's Wart) are one way of treating the body. There are other ways including exercise, electro-convulsive therapy, accupuncture, accupressure, massage, etc... For many people who suffer true clinical depression exercising and the other "alternative" methods of treating the body aren't enough. So they need psychoactive drugs to restore balance to the neurotransmitters in the body.

    And you must treat your spirit. Spirit is the part of you that allows you to connect with other beings, whether they are other embodied beings like other people or non-embodied beings like "God" or other energies. There are many ways to treat the Spirit. All of them include practices that help you to connect with others. Even going out to lunch with a friend can be a Spiritual Practice. It helps you to establish a connection to another person. Prayer works for some. Meditation works for others. Hypnotherapy can be useful here too. Psychotherapy is good at healing the spirit because it is a healthy connection made with another human being who can guide you.

    Also you must treat your Soul. The Soul is that permanent part of your Self that lives on when you are no longer embodied. Your Soul is damaged when you are depressed. Usually depressed people believe that they are fundamentally flawed and they suffer from low self-esteem. Some of these are "beliefs" that reside in the mind. Some of these are actual damage that depression has done to the Soul. Meditation is a good way of repairing the Soul. Hypnotherapy can help here too. Writing in a journal can help. Anything that helps you to raise your awareness of who you really are helps you to repair and heal your Soul. Psychotherapy is good at helping you to heal your Soul because a good psychotherapist can guide you back to reconnect with your true Self.


    Depression is a serious illness. It is deadly. People die from it. Suicide is the most common way to die of depression. Also, since depression also involves the body, it can kill the body through allowing infections to spread and cancer to spread.

    If you are depressed, it is true that you may not know it or you may be in denial. It is important to be seen by a competent mental health professional whether that person is a medical doctor, psychotherapist, counselor, etc. who has dealt with depression and can properly assess your mental health. If you have friends who have suffered from depression, it might be useful to ask them if you seem depressed. People who have suffered from depression can usually recognize it in others. Also they can be wonderful support in your healing process.

    It is disasterous to listen to people who will tell you that, "It's all in your mind" or "Just get over it." The truth is, if you are clinically depressed, you cannot simply "get over it" on your own.

    There is such a thing as spontaneous remission of depression. There is also a theory that depression is part of our natural cycle as human beings, that somehow it's linked to survival. Some people do find their own way out of depression. These people usually have situational depression and have a reason for being depressed (reasons such as loss, death, illness, chronic pain that remits, etc.). This is a different kind of depression than endogenous depression. Endogenous depression is clinical depression that just seems to come out of nowhere. That is the kind of depression where most people need help in order to get well.

    If you have never experienced depression before in your life and you have a few days where you are "blue" you may not have clinical depression. If you are concerned that you might, you may know yourself very well and you may be correct. Get evaluated if you suspect you are clinically depressed. If you are evaluated and found not to be clinically depressed, that might help you to get out of whatever funk you are in at the moment because you won't be worried about being depressed...
     
    #19 simcha, Jul 1, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2008
  20. D_Portelay Porquesword

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    Clinical depression is a legitimate thing. As someone who has suffered many years from it, and endured many physical problems from the side effects the meds that were rx'd for me...

    I have found some truth in what Skull Mason mentioned. I am just an individual case and not everyone is the same. It is not always so easy finding the answers or meds that are able to even do a good enough job to get you through your day to day life. Having said that....

    I took from the OP that his person's issue with depression were not as severe as say mine were. What SM was offering seemed like to me a logical and med free solution from information contained there.

    I am off the meds completely. I now manage it with meditation, exercise and nutrition. (In addition to what I read in Tolle's books, I approached my situation by treating the whole body. Not just the mind.)
    Count me as being fortunate and don't I know it. I wish the same for everyone living with this illness.
     
    #20 D_Portelay Porquesword, Jul 1, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2008
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