Derry/londonderry car bomb

Jason

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There has been a car bomb this evening in Derry/Londonderry in Northern Ireland. No one was hurt. The bomb went off in an area of the City full of Saturday night revellers, close to a home for old people. Early reports are that the bomb is by a splinter group of the terrorists IRA, called "Republican Revolutionaries".

Absolutely everyone has condemned this. I think right now the people of Derry/Londonderry need calm. The blame lies with the terrorists.
 
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Perados

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Let's hope it remains a single event. After 20 years of peace no one thought terror could return this fast. That's why I believe it's done by some absolutely crazy fanatics who thought they could earn some credits and attention by using the vote against the EU deal and being the first with an attack.

Let's hope they get them fast and everything else remains calm.
 

Jason

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I read that there have been two arrests.

The sectarian problems in Northern Ireland are such that we all feel we are walking on eggshells. The twin names for the City illustrate the problem - it really is Derry/Londonderry. I was bothered that the heading system on this board doesn't allow a capital for any word other than the first, so Londonderry in the heading has a small "l" which I know has the potential to upset some. There's a nickname "Stroke City" (because / is a stroke). There's also a convention to call it the City (capital C). And the pity of it is that these things matter.

Derry/Londonderry is the only place in the UK I have ever felt vulnerable because I am English. Okay I have Scottish links as well and I played these up (without indicating Edinburgh or Glasgow). The two communities are pretty much divided by the river, with Protestants in the Waterside (west) and Roman Catholics in the Bogside (east). This divide is far more stark today than it used to be. In the Bogside are a few streets that are the Fountain Estate which are Protestant, and which have a security fence around them. It is beyond awful - we've got people living in a ghetto.

The location of the car bomb is presumably significant:
* It is close to the Court House, which the Republicans perceive as a symbol of UK rule.
* It is close to the Fountain Estate. In effect this is another act of aggression against people who live there.

However
* It is in the nightlife section of Derry/Londonderry (not that this is particularly lively). Had people been killed or injured, there would presumably have been an equal chance of them coming from both communities.
* It was close to an old people's home. Only in NI would an old people's home be situated in the nightlife centre.

I think it is desperately hard to find any "cause" for such terrorist acts. It's almost as if the perpetrators find it fun, or that it somehow makes them feel big.
 

Perados

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I read that there have been two arrests.
That's good to hear
I think it is desperately hard to find any "cause" for such terrorist acts. It's almost as if the perpetrators find it fun, or that it somehow makes them feel big.
I guess there can be found a cause very easily.
 

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I guess there can be found a cause very easily.

I don't think there can.

The terrorists who have claimed responsibility for this bomb are "New IRA", also called "Real IRA" - I don't know whether this group is the same as "Republican Revolutionaries", named on Twitter last night. Their most recent previous activity was July 2018, and there have been a string of earlier outrages. This group opposes the 1998 Good Friday Agreement and wants to drive the Protestants from Ireland. What they want is ethnic cleansing.They are funded with drug money. In effect they use their power to enforce control of the drug supply in an area by acting as vigilantes against other drug dealers. If a reason for this attack is to be found it is quite possible it should be regarded as a drug war.

The nearby Fountain Estate in Derry/Londonderry is a few streets which are protestant on what is the Roman Catholic side of the River Foyle (and it is shocking that we can talk about sides of a river in this way). The residents of The Fountain have been subjected to decades of intimidation. Bluntly, anyone with any sense would have moved out years ago and got on with their lives. However The Fountain has maintained its community. And yes, they push back, and they are probably not very nice in this. There are flags. There's a security fence around. They paint the kerb-stones (red, white and blue). And there are murals - paintings on the side of buildings - which some regard as provocative. Curiously the idea that The Fountain is "under siege" is a credible image. They really are completely surrounded by people they regard as the enemy, by a community who wants them gone, cleansed from Ireland, and they do get a lot of aggression directed against them. I'm (mostly) English, so I suppose I could visit The Fountain, but I would be very cautious about walking through the streets to get there. (Taxis tend to serve either protestant or catholic communities, so even the idea of taking a taxi in isn't as easy as it should be. Maybe a taxi as far as the edge.)I really do mean I would be frightened walking in much of the Bogside, basically anywhere outside the citadel.

Just look at the picture: slogans, painted kerb-stones, boarded up houses. This is a very poor community. You can buy a house for next to nothing. There are few jobs, no obvious reason to be there, and a credible threat to your life every time you enter or leave.

FOUNTAIN-ESTATE.jpg
 

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I don't think there can.

The terrorists who have claimed responsibility for this bomb are "New IRA", also called "Real IRA" - I don't know whether this group is the same as "Republican Revolutionaries", named on Twitter last night. Their most recent previous activity was July 2018, and there have been a string of earlier outrages. This group opposes the 1998 Good Friday Agreement and wants to drive the Protestants from Ireland. What they want is ethnic cleansing.They are funded with drug money. In effect they use their power to enforce control of the drug supply in an area by acting as vigilantes against other drug dealers. If a reason for this attack is to be found it is quite possible it should be regarded as a drug war.

The nearby Fountain Estate in Derry/Londonderry is a few streets which are protestant on what is the Roman Catholic side of the River Foyle (and it is shocking that we can talk about sides of a river in this way). The residents of The Fountain have been subjected to decades of intimidation. Bluntly, anyone with any sense would have moved out years ago and got on with their lives. However The Fountain has maintained its community. And yes, they push back, and they are probably not very nice in this. There are flags. There's a security fence around. They paint the kerb-stones (red, white and blue). And there are murals - paintings on the side of buildings - which some regard as provocative. Curiously the idea that The Fountain is "under siege" is a credible image. They really are completely surrounded by people they regard as the enemy, by a community who wants them gone, cleansed from Ireland, and they do get a lot of aggression directed against them. I'm (mostly) English, so I suppose I could visit The Fountain, but I would be very cautious about walking through the streets to get there. (Taxis tend to serve either protestant or catholic communities, so even the idea of taking a taxi in isn't as easy as it should be. Maybe a taxi as far as the edge.)I really do mean I would be frightened walking in much of the Bogside, basically anywhere outside the citadel.

Just look at the picture: slogans, painted kerb-stones, boarded up houses. This is a very poor community. You can buy a house for next to nothing. There are few jobs, no obvious reason to be there, and a credible threat to your life every time you enter or leave.

View attachment 1479782

Very sad, thanks for the update.
 

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I don't think there can.

The terrorists who have claimed responsibility for this bomb are "New IRA", also called "Real IRA" - I don't know whether this group is the same as "Republican Revolutionaries", named on Twitter last night. Their most recent previous activity was July 2018, and there have been a string of earlier outrages. This group opposes the 1998 Good Friday Agreement and wants to drive the Protestants from Ireland. What they want is ethnic cleansing.They are funded with drug money. In effect they use their power to enforce control of the drug supply in an area by acting as vigilantes against other drug dealers. If a reason for this attack is to be found it is quite possible it should be regarded as a drug war.

The nearby Fountain Estate in Derry/Londonderry is a few streets which are protestant on what is the Roman Catholic side of the River Foyle (and it is shocking that we can talk about sides of a river in this way). The residents of The Fountain have been subjected to decades of intimidation. Bluntly, anyone with any sense would have moved out years ago and got on with their lives. However The Fountain has maintained its community. And yes, they push back, and they are probably not very nice in this. There are flags. There's a security fence around. They paint the kerb-stones (red, white and blue). And there are murals - paintings on the side of buildings - which some regard as provocative. Curiously the idea that The Fountain is "under siege" is a credible image. They really are completely surrounded by people they regard as the enemy, by a community who wants them gone, cleansed from Ireland, and they do get a lot of aggression directed against them. I'm (mostly) English, so I suppose I could visit The Fountain, but I would be very cautious about walking through the streets to get there. (Taxis tend to serve either protestant or catholic communities, so even the idea of taking a taxi in isn't as easy as it should be. Maybe a taxi as far as the edge.)I really do mean I would be frightened walking in much of the Bogside, basically anywhere outside the citadel.

Just look at the picture: slogans, painted kerb-stones, boarded up houses. This is a very poor community. You can buy a house for next to nothing. There are few jobs, no obvious reason to be there, and a credible threat to your life every time you enter or leave.

View attachment 1479782
That's all interesting and might be true, but has barely anything to do with the general question.
What causes the bomb?

In the past 2 decades it has been very VERY quiet in Ireland. Even the new IRA, who oppose the peace agreements, hasn't done much...

So, what has changed? Why was it so quiet for so long and why do we have a new attack now?
One could argue that the rejection of the EU deal could be such an event that causes a change in behaviour.

We talked about it earlier. A hard boarder in Ireland could create new terror.

I don't want to say the vote of the parliament causes the attack, but it is an interesting coincident.
Should it remain a single event it probably wasn't connected, if more attacks follow Brexit is the reason.
 

Jason

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That's all interesting and might be true, but has barely anything to do with the general question.
What causes the bomb?

In the past 2 decades it has been very VERY quiet in Ireland. Even the new IRA, who oppose the peace agreements, hasn't done much...

So, what has changed? Why was it so quiet for so long and why do we have a new attack now?
One could argue that the rejection of the EU deal could be such an event that causes a change in behaviour.

We talked about it earlier. A hard boarder in Ireland could create new terror.

I don't want to say the vote of the parliament causes the attack, but it is an interesting coincident.
Should it remain a single event it probably wasn't connected, if more attacks follow Brexit is the reason.

The Provisional IRA had a lot of international funding and a lot of international support. One area of support that is very well known is that they used Czechoslovakian manufactured explosives shipped via Libya. A lot is now known about their funding and the routes by which they got weapons into Northern Ireland. They were a group who sought to bring about international socialism through revolution, which is why they had the support of both USSR and Corbyn.

The peace process led to the Provisional IRA putting its arms beyond use. It is complicated, but to a considerable extent this reflects a drying up of their funding and (with the end of USSR) of the support of USSR. They realised that they were on the verge of defeat by the UK security services, and the peace process was the tidiest way for both sides to resolve the issue. The pity is that the peace process which led to the Good Friday Agreement took so long. In part the problem was that politicians such as Corbyn continued to support their terrorism, and this delayed a solution. There are people dead who died in terrorist atrocities who would be alive today had Corbyn not lent IRA his support. However we've made progress, and Provisional IRA is no more.

In place of Provisional IRA are a host of other groups: Real IRA, New IRA, Continuity IRA. These have taken up the position of Provisional IRA, but are largely without funding and international support. What funds they do have are from drugs - in effect they are the drug mafia. There have been some nasty incidents, but nothing on the scale of Provisional IRA. It's interesting that this latest car bomb has led very quickly to arrests - by contrast Provisional IRA were very good at avoiding arrest by their murderers. New IRA seems amateurish.

The situation in Northern Ireland is so much better in the last couple of decades, but still fragile. I don't think this car bomb will have repercussions, but it is still worrying.
 
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185248

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Terrorists a dumb, period. Any group targeting unarmed civilians with devices of death prove this continually.
 
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To be perfectly honest. They are extremely stupid, moronic.

Lets just say I was unhappy with the world...things were not going my way. As many are finding themselves these days.

Lets just say......why kill people, why plant bombs in cars, suicide bombers...whatever? Crazy, absolutely, totally abhorrent to life.

Now, let me pose a question for all those happy people out there..the people being ignored, continually. Their grievances are passed over in favour of a more "economical" outcome? Meaning, someone is going to make a squillion....and it's not the nation..... I figure probably 70% to 80% of nations in the world..and rising are facing this conundrum.

How would a person express their absolute frustration at corruption of power and ignorance of the majority?

You know what? I would never expect an answer. Because with all the tightening, with all the scare tactics governments have placed on society, for all the ears that listen.

I don't expect anyone to have the balls to be truthful online. Most don't even have the balls to identify themselves.

This is why I don't get all the argumentative codswallop. Why bother?
 
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Personally, my hat, more than that, I and everyone else's existence today rests on the backs of those who believed in the truth and were not afraid to give it all to preserve it.

I have read up about Ireland, well, because all the press and some.... want us to hear, are the bombings. Yet..what about the people who starved themselves to death because of their belief?
Bobby-Sands-12.jpg


Yeah....bombs were not his thing, yet his message, and his friends are not recognised because some people dwell on killing to push their message. On both sides.

This young man went the way of Gandhi.....for me, his message rings more true than those who wish to popularise terrorist bombings.

Shame on those morons who glorify terrorism by constantly using it to push their message, taking of life is not a thing to be proud of, nor is, using it to preach right ..

You use Jase, the constant fear of Terrorism...it is centerpoint to your argument, you use it often, you use the media's majority coverage.... yet you fail to tell all the truth of human sacrifice???

What of this young man?

You prefer to publicise this..........
images


And all like it. You fail to understand, yet I understand your argument at times. Yet you have a government ruled by people who were bred by people who still believe in a world 200 years ago.

Your nation is about to take a step back, and will take the next 50 years to recover. Yet, you are happy with this.
 
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Jason

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Bobby Sands was a terrorist and a member of the IRA. No one on either side doubts what he did. He was convicted twice:
* for possession of firearms
* for his part in the Dunmurry bombing and the subsequent shooting. No-one was killed in this (though it was a big bomb) though two men were wounded.

There is no defence or justification for his actions. Sands cannot be compared with Gandhi. He is someone willing to kill innocents, and a member of a terrorist group the whole world condemns. The additional factor is that he was a particularly complicated individual. His death by hunger strike certainly made him a martyr, and the narrative is that he died bravely for his cause. The consequences of his death included unrest and loss of life - had he made other decisions people would not have been hurt and not have died.

There are problems with murals from both communities in Northern Ireland in that many of them glorify terrorists. The Bobby Sands one is on the Falls Road. It causes offence to people who have lost loved ones because of what he did. The present reality is that we're not yet ready to paint over it, but we do need to move on from it just as Eastern Europe moved on from the glorification of Stalin in countless statues, and did this by tearing them down. Bobby Sands did some terrible things. If society ever adopts the idea of a nice and cuddly terrorist then we're all lost.

The Unionist mural I posted does not glorify terrorism. It may well be provocative and it may well be better were it painted over, but it is a whole lot better than the mural of Sands. How would the people of New York feel if a giant picture of the WTC terrorists was painted on a nearby New York wall?
 
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Bobby Sands was a terrorist and a member of the IRA. No one on either side doubts what he did. He was convicted twice:
* for possession of firearms
* for his part in the Dunmurry bombing and the subsequent shooting. No-one was killed in this (though it was a big bomb) though two men were wounded.

There is no defence or justification for his actions. Sands cannot be compared with Gandhi. He is someone willing to kill innocents, and a member of a terrorist group the whole world condemns. The additional factor is that he was a particularly complicated individual. His death by hunger strike certainly made him a martyr, and the narrative is that he died bravely for his cause. The consequences of his death included unrest and loss of life - had he made other decisions people would not have been hurt and not have died.

There are problems with murals from both communities in Northern Ireland in that many of them glorify terrorists. The Bobby Sands one is on the Falls Road. It causes offence to people who have lost loved ones because of what he did. The present reality is that we're not yet ready to paint over it, but we do need to move on from it just as Eastern Europe moved on from the glorification of Stalin in countless statues, and did this by tearing them down. Bobby Sands did some terrible things. If society ever adopts the idea of a nice and cuddly terrorist then we're all lost.

The Unionist mural I posted does not glorify terrorism. It may well be provocative and it may well be better were it painted over, but it is a whole lot better than the mural of Sands. How would the people of New York feel if a giant picture of the WTC terrorists was painted on a nearby New York wall?

To be honest Jase.....Someone needs to call a halt. I placed my previous post to see how you would answer.

Yeah...Like the UK did not use Lord Mt Batten...So Jase. Who will have the balls?

You did not answer that your country suffers from hereditary crap. Yet, guess what, none of your politicians from either side have answers. Do they?

You could quote, I could quote...but none of you over there have a bloody clue.

I'll just keep watching Grand Designs :) Yeah.....Grand Design. Let's make UK culture look like it was 200 years ago.

Well Architecture may move forward mixed with old and new.............Greed, well...firmly footed in the past.
 

Jason

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The UK has gone further to find peace in Northern Ireland than any nation faced with an insurrection has ever done. We let terrorist murderers out of prison. We stopped looking for terrorist murderers. We've created a situation where the political wing of IRA is one of the two political parties that rule through the NI assembly. We agreed that the IRA was not to be disarmed. We haven't prosecuted IRA members for their drug dealing (specifically because they are IRA). I don't know what more we could do.

There's a softly-softly approach to things like the Sands mural. We tolerate it. For the relatives of the thousands murdered by IRA it is as offensive as a picture of Hitler in a Jewish neighbourhood. But we tolerate it.

Most of the extreme murals are in support of IRA, but I'm aware there are some nasty ones on both sides. Unionist murals tend to be slogans, or William of Orange, or Battle of the Boyne.
 
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The UK has gone further to find peace in Northern Ireland than any nation faced with an insurrection has ever done. We let terrorist murderers out of prison. We stopped looking for terrorist murderers. We've created a situation where the political wing of IRA is one of the two political parties that rule through the NI assembly. We agreed that the IRA was not to be disarmed. We haven't prosecuted IRA members for their drug dealing (specifically because they are IRA). I don't know what more we could do.

There's a softly-softly approach to things like the Sands mural. We tolerate it. For the relatives of the thousands murdered by IRA it is as offensive as a picture of Hitler in a Jewish neighbourhood. But we tolerate it.

Most of the extreme murals are in support of IRA, but I'm aware there are some nasty ones on both sides. Unionist murals tend to be slogans, or William of Orange, or Battle of the Boyne.

Yes, you mention the past in said murals. This is what the Islands of the UK suffer from. A case of not resolving fully, ancient past issues.

It is crippling, debilitating to your United Kingdom moving forward. Theresa May, I think would have made a half good pollie in less stressful times. But it was thrust upon her.

The Queen, the Royal Family needs to sit down with the Irish, the Scottish, face to face, eye to eye to sort this out. Blood to sort it with blood so to speak.

Medieval misgivings will never be sorted with the 3rd party of modern politics. Never. Not with the ancient history involved.

Someone needs to show the way, and soon. Because ancient enemies and unresolved issues from the past are blocking the way to an agreement with the EU as well.

If the UK is not truly United, then your old enemies will use this weakness. I am amazed your Royal Highness has not acted before now.

It will only go to strengthen your weaknesses for other nations to take advantage...not only EU nations....if she does, or the future King does not act now.

The Royal Family is seen as the supreme leaders in your country. They need to step up and take responsibility, because politics is clearly failing your nation.
 
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Not just be camera fodder at weddings and funerals. Or for that matter, traffic accidents.
 
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