Deterioration....

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by D_one and done, Apr 20, 2008.

  1. D_one and done

    D_one and done New Member

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    Ive lived in this neighborhood for the last year or so. When i first moved here it was a very nice quiet place. Coming from the city, it was a very welcome change for me. About 70% of the people in this neighborhood were white when I moved here. Over the last year, most of the white families who lived here have now moved out, and have been replaced by black families.

    Theres more trash on the street now, there have been a couple of stabbings and shootings, the quiet life i had before is pretty much out the window, and yesterday i saw the first crack-head I've ever seen in this area standing in my driveway as i was trying to pull in (she asked me if i had a lighter :confused:.) Its as if I've been watching this community deteriorate slowly from the inside out.

    After thinking about it, this reminded me of a side conversation we had in my African American History class about the destructive nature of certain facets of black culture. I had no idea any of this happened because I'm a younguhn, but according to my teacher, there's been a constant migration of ethnic groups in this city. He told us that from a certain street and outwards, there used to be a nice, clean, well-kept white community. The students (including myself) were shocked because in present day that area is one of the worst areas in the city (and predominantly occupied by black people.)

    During the discussion we went through a LONG list of similar instances which all boiled down to the same thing: something new is built, white folks go there, slowly the black community comes in, crime rate increased, the surrounding areas become dirty and un-kept, and the white folks disappear.

    Have any of you personally seen any instances similar to this? how does it make you feel? And for those of you who are black or who feel the desire to respond, what do you feel is the root of this destructive tendency in black culture?
     
  2. naughty

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    I think what you are looking at is probably more socio economic than racial. You are looking at the results of despair. The people that are left behind are usually those who do not have the skills or the self determination or circumstances to move forward. I used to ask the same question. WHen you dont own something , sometimes you dont learn to cherish and take care of it. I think about the neighborhoods we have homes in and two are in a black neighborhood and these areas have consistantly been kept up over the years. However these are all single family homes and most of the people who own ahd have owned them are at least middle class and had intact families. But just going a few block over one can see what you describe.It means a lot.

    I must say when I first saw your thread I wanted to give you a head noogie because I thought that this thread is only going to feed into the negative thoughts of many of the non white members of the board but we have to be open and brave enough to deal with these harsh realities.
     
  3. Flashy

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    it is actually a socially described scenario known as "White Flight".

    it has happened in pretty much every major urban area in the country at one point or another.

    Illustratively, Compton, California, was once a vibrant white community around the post WW2 era.
     
  4. naughty

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    The migration portion of the thread is known as white flight. I have come to love Barry Levinson's movies for just that reason. The area of B-more where we have two homes is exactly where he sets his films. I recall as a small child having older jewish neighbors. I suppose by that time whoever hadnt moved merely died out. Most of those homes still have mezuzzahs (Sp) on the door posts. However now the trend is for whites (the children and grandchidren of those who moved to the suburbs) to move back in town and gentrify those same homes. So the reverse is happening now. I too resent individuals who's personal habits bring down my property values and I am a black woman.
    When they imploded the projects of Baltimore and DC to create new luxuary apartments and townhouses they sent many of the displaced to section 8 housing that they were creating in the suburbs. I noticed for the first time in my lfe some of the same problems that plagued the inner cities. People are going to take their issues with them wherever they go.
     
  5. D_one and done

    D_one and done New Member

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    I tried my best to think of a way to speak about this problem without incorporating race, but the only personal experiences I've had with it were black/white so that was all i could speak on.

    I agree that the problem that creates these situations are for the most part non-racial. It irritates and saddens me to see people who are complacent and even comfortable in this kind of environment. Ive done what i can to keep the area around my house clean even going as far as picking up trash on other people's lawns, but even something as simple as that becomes hopeless as more trash is there before the days over. picking up other's trash does make the outside area look better, but it isn't doing anything to change the behavior so why bother?

    the trash thing is somewhat superficial, but even so it just makes me wonder what can be done if anything to bring about a real change in a community like this. simply "picking up the trash" isn't a long term solution.

    i hope that makes sense @_@ lol


    oh yeah! i remember my teacher used that term during the discussion. :biggrin1:
     
  6. D_one and done

    D_one and done New Member

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    so true. the exact same thing is happening here. with the new stadium built and the effort to revitalize the inner city under way, most of downtown is being renovated into expensive lofts, the "privileged" crowd is making their way back into the city, and the urban residents are being pushed to the outer areas.
     
  7. naughty

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    Sweetheart,

    I was thinking about it and the term "depressed area" came to mind. I have often said to friends that depression is epidemic in the black community but we just dont call it that, get therapy for it or medication. Often when someone is really depressed they dont care about their personal appearance, or environment. THey dont even see it. Imagine this on a wide scale and generationally . People who feel there is no way out of poverty and do not have the spirit or emotional energy to push forward. Imagine these people then not equiping their children with the skills they need to live in a socially acceptable fashion. This is where it comes from I believe. I will never forget that one of our former pastors tried to help some of the kids in the inner city neighborhood surrounding the church. One boy in particular would come to his home everyday. His manners were non existant and he was basically little more than an animal. THings that our parents taught us very early on were just not there. They had to teach him how to eat, how to wash, etc.
    Now i know this may be an extreme case but it happens. THey came to find out that he was basically raising himself. His mother was a crack whore and his grandmother was also dysfunctional so he had NO boundaries. But he had sense enough to know that the pastor would give him something to eat and subsequently he for at least a short time was exposed to a decent role model.
     
  8. D_one and done

    D_one and done New Member

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    wow thats so sad naughty :(

    i guess things like this are what my moms likes to call "generational curses." the only way to break it from within a family is to stop the behavior in your own life. i guess thats easier said than done since the person has been raised around the behavior (or lack thereof) their whole life. you have to be inquisitive and intelligent enough to question your own upbringing.
     
  9. naughty

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    Yes,

    Though we might not want to admit it, the bible verse about the sins of the father being visited on the children to the third and forth generation rings true. That is unless something is done to break the cycle. So often we live unconsciously following the same destructive patterns that we modelled for us. A friend told me that a family is affect by the behavior of an alcoholic parent for three generations. Wow. What if then each subsequent generation continues in that cycle. What about drug abuse or unwed pregnancy? THe list is endless.
     
  10. midlifebear

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    If you have someone from Barçelona place an "X" on the center of the gay community in this city, it will most likely be directly over my piso in what is known as l'eixample. I live around the corner from La Metro, one of the more outrageous gay bars in the city that empties out at 7:00 AM.

    One of the more curious things to happen in the last 6+ plus years has been the in-migration of thousands of Muslims. There is a serious lack of mosques in this city, so many of the commercial buildings that have been bought with cash are use for religious services. Although, Catalans are beginning to become a bit nervous because almost no one can really tell what's going on in this part of town. No one can read the beautiful script that covers the signs on the buildings. Previously, most Muslims used to be comfortably contained in La Raval district. But not any more. So far, besides unreadable sinage, the only change in neighborhood has been an obvious clean up of dog shit on the sidewalks. But this isn't the first time Muslims have taken over a neighborhood (they used to run the country until just before the Crusades) and Catalans tend to commiserate with other people who have suffered political and religious persecution. Fanco is a fresh and bitter memory. Still, the locals are getting a little nervous. Yet the crime rate in my part of town has dropped considerably. So, it's Muslims standing in lines outside of buildings during the day and raving buff gay men standing in lines to enter the clubs at night.

    If out-migration were possible (land is not available in BCN) then maybe some folks would move. But we all seem to get along, although the irony of Muslims moving into a primarily gay neighborhood has not been overlooked by anyone.

    I, for one, plan on staying put.
     
  11. naughty

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    Have you seen any instance of prosceletizing or persecution of gays?
     
  12. marleyisalegend

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    i don't think it's necessary a 'black culture' , just a 'certain black people' thing. there are neighborhoods that are mostly black where everyone is a lawyer, a doctor, has a family, successful life. you're looking at one aspect (though a large one, still just one aspect) of the black community, the lower class. i hope it isn't your mentality that black=drugs, crime, deterioration because those things exist an any community. if you take a bunch of poor white people or poor asian people and gather them in one area there's a large likelihood that you'd get the same results, drugs, crime. i think your issue is more of a class one than race
     
  13. naughty

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    Sweetie,

    Did you read my post and some of the others? I think we concur that it is bigger than race. But something you just said made me think. I wonder if the black communities looked like this during segregation when there were professionals living right next to blue collar workers? I would hazard a guess that they probably didnt. Most of the people we are discussing are those who got left behind for one reason or another in the ghetto.
     
  14. D_one and done

    D_one and done New Member

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    excellent story midlife. that's exactly the kind of accounts i wanted to hear when i started this thread. its cool to see how the migration in your area led to a sort of coexistence instead of just leading to more migration. thanks for sharing with us :biggrin1:

    ah, and naughty brought up a good question. would be interesting to hear how the muslims and gays interact, whether it be positive or negative.
     
  15. D_one and done

    D_one and done New Member

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    youre right of course. but i think somewhere in there i said that it is only a facet of black culture. every racial culture has this same facet and it would more than likely exist in the same social class among these different races. i only spoke of "black culture" because it is the only one i have immediate knowledge of.:biggrin1:

    and btw youre cute. like your pics:wink:
     
  16. tiggerpoo

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    Dear Marley

    What you say is true. However, have you read Bill Crosby's article "This is how we lost to the White Man" written by Ta-Nehisi Coates in the May 2008 edition of The Atlantic, TheAtlantic.com :: Home. I quote from the article:

    ". . . Crosby came to Detroit to grab the city's black men by their collars and shake them out of the torpor that has left so many of them - like so many of their peers across the country - undereducated, overincarcerated and under represented in the ranks of fathers. . . ."

    There is a huge problem with black culture and Crosby is very brave to tackle it head on. :frown1: My black gf shares Corsby's views on the subject. She moved out of her area a year ago because of its deterioration.

    She's very proud to be black but feels that many black are reinforcing the negative view many whites have of the black community.

    We need to face these things square on and work towards solving the problem.

    Strength to you brother - and all in the black community. I love ya.
     
  17. D_one and done

    D_one and done New Member

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    i definitely understand where youre coming from tiggerpoo. my bf lives in detroit. im working my ass off to help him get the resources to get out of there. hes been through most of the norm for that area: failing education system, selling drugs, jail etc. Hes not ignorant at all and he really wants to make some good out of his life and i want that for him, so im gonna do whatever it takes to help him because no one else around him will.
     
  18. tiggerpoo

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    Lustlover,

    The situation he's in is rather much a trap. Very difficult to get out of it.
    Strength to you and your bf in you endeauours. Everyone that moves out of that situation is a victory. Fight the good fight to the end.
     
  19. D_one and done

    D_one and done New Member

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    thanks for the support man.:biggrin1:
     
  20. midlifebear

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    Actually, the gay community is not only very well tolerated in Barçelona, is part and parcel of the City's cultural fabric. I've honestly never encountered ANY discrimination in this city. If anything, it's probably the reverse. 'Mericuhn families who show up with young kids (fortunatey, the worthless dollar has eliminated most of these types) tend to gawk and stare at men holding hands walking down the streets. But even out in Badalana (a very un-cool place to live) everyone seems to get along. It's the football enthusiasts who are the biggest problem. I hate to admit it, but Germans who come down here to watch and support their teams are frequently slammed against walls in the Metro by police for being too drunk, rude, and rowdy. Rude I can undertsand. But this is BCN where a glass of pink cava is often sucked down with breakfast before you go to work. Then again, there's a MAJOR rivalry between Germans and Spaniards. Germans (and Brits) tend to regard Spain as 'Mericuhns regard México. They do things down here they would never consider doing in their own country; especially things of an unsavory sexual nature.

    The biggest problem in the city as far as persecution is with the Roms or gypsies. They're a main source of pickpocketing (petty crime) and begging. They annoy just about everyone and the local police have recently really come down on them hard -- both men and women. They are definitely persecuted. But the street cops in my neighborhood are mostly gay (and tasty).:biggrin1:

    But while the USA has become more sour and hateful screaming that gay marriage is the last straw that will tip the coming of the Apocolypse, gay marriage is VERY legal here (since Zapatero was elected head of the government) and the only people who seem to be a danger are the political conservatives led by Rajoy. Put a few pounds on Bush, a gizzled beard and moustache and you have Rajoy. He's equally ineloquent.
     
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