Did you "choose" to be gay?

[Dustin Berry]

Being that you'd rather be straight because of the systemic oppression of homosexuals, I still think your position is heterosexist. If you really want to be straight, there's nothing stopping you from experimenting with straight sex. Apart from other people judging you of course. But that's immaterial when it comes to what sex you want to have and why you want to have it.



It's very pompous of you to speak to a personal experience that does not belong to you. You don't know what my motivations were for why I started having gay sex. You weren't there, nor were you involved. Like I said before, there are a million reasons for why a person could want to have sex. Desire for the sex itself is just one of them. Just because a man has sex with another man doesn't necessarily mean he wanted gay sex in that instance.

I did hate sucking cock. Every time I got together with a sex partner in high school, I did not want me sucking cock to be involved. In fact, I engaged in sex in order to "escape" from the rest of my life...not for the pure joy of having gay sex. I was almost never joyful about it back then. I was there for a physical release, that's it. The fact my partners were male was definitely a side note back then. The reason I kept going back to it at first was because it was my primary form of stress management.

I really didn't begin to enjoy it until mid way through college, after I stopped identifying as gay actually. I gained enough skills and experience to actually appreciate the male form and orgasm. My attraction toward males and men became genuine and personal (unlike in high school when it was just a means to an end). I also began exploring straight sex for the first time. My first few vaginal experiences felt just as dreadful as my first few penile ones were.

That's why those early experiences didn't particularly build my sexuality all that much; they had little to no relation to neither my current sexual orientation nor the pure joy of having sex. They felt no different to me from going to church or going to the doctor. It was a thing I felt forced into, a thing I had no choice in.

The desire you speak of for me was a desire to not be stressed, not a desire specifically for gay sex. It was a means to an end. Had straight sex been easier for me to obtain, I would have done that instead. I did have a choice. I chose what felt like the easier path to me at the time. Then I chose a different one 3 years later because I wanted a new and different experience.

Now I'm adamant in my belief that you can make choices inside your sexuality. Over time, those choices add up and lead to bigger choices. Eventually, you find yourself in the position where you CAN choose a new and different orientation. You might have intentionally planned it that way, or (as in my case) fallen into it by chance. But you can always make the choice not to change. There's nothing wrong with that, as so many seem to believe.

Once again confusing my words. Pretend the whole world was really racist towards blacks and you're black. Any body with a brain would be able to look at the big picture akd wished they were born Asian or something. I never said I AGREED with the homophobia, Im just being honest and saying ai wish I were born straight to avoid the trouble. This doesnt mean I dont lije being gah, it makes me honest, any idiot could see that this world is kinder to straight pwople

 

[TurkeyWithaSunburn]

No.
The same way I didn't choose to be able curl my tongue into an "O" or that I can wiggle my ears, they are just things that are a part of me.

 

[Smaccoms]

Clearly neither of us is willing to move off our original positions. That's fine. I do want you to know I respect your experiences even if I disagree with how you interpret them. I also appreciate your willingness to share your life in a forum like this and willingly and openly defend your points of view. Thank you for that. I don't think I have anything else to say on the subject because I feel like I am beating you over the head by continuing to respond and that detracts from you having shared your experiences so openly and honestly. I do not want you to feel I am being hostile to you, because I am not, or that my possible silence on this issue is some kind of passive / aggressive thing. This is just a good point for me to let it go and allow everyone who wants to do so a chance to absorb and think about their own experiences without clouding the issue. Thanks again for sharing and being an eloquent spokeperson for your heartfelt views.

I'm sure I'll see you on other threads.

I feel the same way, so thank you for your thoughts.

I don't understand how you can "force" yourself to jerk off photos of women.

I find myself switching back and forth, almost at random, between men and women in porn. Whomever I end on at the climax is very random. It's pretty funny to see myself not being able to decide anymore. I try not to think about it too much though.

I never said I AGREED with the homophobia, Im just being honest and saying ai wish I were born straight to avoid the trouble. This doesnt mean I dont lije being gah, it makes me honest, any idiot could see that this world is kinder to straight pwople

I appreciate your honestly on the matter as well. I try to do the same in return.

But heterosexism and homophobia are not interchangeable. Homophobia is an irrational fear of homosexuality. Heterosexism refers to a deep-seated belief that heterosexuality is the one and correct choice (for whatever reason). One can be heterosexist without being homophobic and vice versa. You can love your own homosexuality while also believing that you shouldn't actually be gay. It;s a very awkward position to be in to be honest.

You seem to be stuck on the idea that you love your own homosexuality. Understanding that the world is "kinder to straight people" (I've never phrased it that way, but I like it) does not automatically mean a person is going to "wish they were born straight to avoid the trouble". That's going to a much deeper level than simply recognizing the existence of heterosexism, and is quite defeatist of you.

 

[umdoistressilvaquatro]

"I find myself switching back and forth, almost at random, between men and women in porn. Whomever I end on at the climax is very random"
That's actually a conversion therapy technique. I did the same, and know other 2 guys who did, and we are still gay. Not bisexual nor queer (for whatever you mean by using a slur as a orientation label)

 

[Smaccoms]

That's actually a conversion therapy technique. I did the same, and know other 2 guys who did, and we are still gay. Not bisexual nor queer (for whatever you mean by using a slur as a orientation label)

Really? I've never heard that before. That's weird because I thoroughly enjoy doing it. If a person wants to do it, that's one thing. But I could never approve of a person being forced into that sort of activity against their will,you know? That's terrible.

Queer is a becoming a more and more common label these days. It strikes me as odd that there are those who still think of it only as a slur. For everything I've gone through, it's just a lot more accurate than "gay" or "bisexual" ever could be. I'm definitely not gay, but I'm not a 50/50 split either. It depends on the day really.

 

[JackM]

I definitely didn't choose it. I'm pretty sure I was born this way, because I remember having crushes on young men on TV before I knew what sexual desire was.

When I saw Burt Ward as Dick Grayson (Robin in the Batman TV series) I felt a strange emotion that I couldn't identify - something like envy. It was only in later years that I realised it was a kind of sexual attraction.

 

[lobo]

Growing up in an era when gays were looked down upon, I tried desperately to be straight. I dated girls, had sex with them, and eventually married. My "choice" to be straight was an emotional nightmare. Only after my acceptance of my true nature did I find peace.

I didn't choose to be gay, but I give thanks that I am.

 

[umdoistressilvaquatro]

Really? I've never heard that before. That's weird because I thoroughly enjoy doing it. If a person wants to do it, that's one thing. But I could never approve of a person being forced into that sort of activity against their will,you know? That's terrible.

Queer is a becoming a more and more common label these days. It strikes me as odd that there are those who still think of it only as a slur. For everything I've gone through, it's just a lot more accurate than "gay" or "bisexual" ever could be. I'm definitely not gay, but I'm not a 50/50 split either. It depends on the day really.

I don't understand why you insist in presuming a sexual reorientation attempt is always forced when in the majority of cases it's voluntary. It also seems that you are implying that if it wasn't forced, it would be effective. Because what you described is actually prescribed by a behavioral psychotherapy book that I found in my college's library. Either by recommendation of a psychoterapist or in form of an individual attempt to become straight, a lot of gay boys tried the association trick. What you are claiming is that you used an actual textbook gay cure technique - and that it worked! and that it could work for us too, if we kept an open mind!
What everyone is claiming is that you were already attracted to women before you "choose" to. You yourself said that you enjoyed jerking off to women porn, so you already had attraction to women at the time, being therefore bisexual.
I don't know from where you took that idea that your attraction towards both genders must be on a 50/50 ratio for you to be a bisexual. If you are attracted to men and to women, you are bisexual, the ratio doesn't matter. The change in a bisexual's preference towards men or women is not a change in his sexuality, no more than a gay men change of preference from blonds to redheads, from thin guys to hunks, etc.
Queer is a slur that means weirdo and is targeted towards lgbt people, similar to faggot, fag, sissy, pansy and similar terms. Labelling yourself "queer" when you are a bisexual man doesn't add anymore accuracy than when a black person call themself "nigger". If anything, it's a testimony of cluelessness on bigotry and its language.

 

[Smaccoms]

I don't understand why you insist in presuming a sexual reorientation attempt is always forced when in the majority of cases it's voluntary. It also seems that you are implying that if it wasn't forced, it would be effective. Because what you described is actually prescribed by a behavioral psychotherapy book that I found in my college's library. Either by recommendation of a psychoterapist or in form of an individual attempt to become straight, a lot of gay boys tried the association trick. What you are claiming is that you used an actual textbook gay cure technique - and that it worked! and that it could work for us too, if we kept an open mind!

I didn't use any specific technique, I followed my instincts. I'm also not claiming that everyone needs to follow in my footsteps. That would be foolish. I'm simply saying that's IT'S POSSIBLE! I'm saying that you don't have to be born that way. You can, in fact, make conscious choices about your orientation...but only if that's what you truly want to do. Most don't want to do that, and that's perfectly valid. I have no problems with that

But I DO have a problem with everyone not accepting the path i chose, and immediately trying to "diagnose" me so that they can "know who I am". I'm telling you who I am, and I chose to be queer once I realized I wanted to enjoy more than just gay sex. Not because I hate gay sex or because I think straight sex is better (as so many gay people believe deep down), but because I wanted to experiment and become a sexpert.

I do not presume whether or not a "sexual reorientation" is forced or voluntary. My only point is that if it is forced, it's probably not going to work. You cannot force someone into doing something they do not want to do. On top of that, if a person volunteers into "sexual reorientation" due to a heterosexist attitude, I highly doubt that would work either. That represents a person that is acting out of self-hatred. That's hardly healthy on any level. That is not what I did going from gay to queer either.

Those two cases do not represent all instances of a person wanting to learn how to find a new & different kind of sex attractive. Assuming they represent all cases, imho, is foolish.

What everyone is claiming is that you were already attracted to women before you "choose" to. You yourself said that you enjoyed jerking off to women porn, so you already had attraction to women at the time, being therefore bisexual.

Okay, I'm not sure how many times I have to say this before it gets across, but here goes. I DIDN'T ENJOY IT AT FIRST. In fact, I hated it every bit as much as my first few gay experiences. I walked away from my first "not-gay" experience thinking, "I AM gay, cool!". It wasn't until after a few more gay experiences that I started wanting a second attempt. In high school, I had no desire for women at all either. Zero, zip.

Enjoying sex is not automatic. It took me years of practice before I could enjoy ANY sex whatsoever. Even in college, I knew straight sex was just as legitimate of a choice for me to make as gay sex was. I didn't need to leave gay sex behind to experiment with straight sex, as you so clearly implied with your attempt at "sexual reorientation". I wasn't trying to "reorient" myself. That is foolish. I was trying to expand my repertoire by intentionally partaking in sexual experiences I did not initially enjoy.

Stop claiming you know more about my experiences than I do...and for what? Because you disagree with my perspective? How conceited of you!

I don't know from where you took that idea that your attraction towards both genders must be on a 50/50 ratio for you to be a bisexual. If you are attracted to men and to women, you are bisexual, the ratio doesn't matter. The change in a bisexual's preference towards men or women is not a change in his sexuality, no more than a gay men change of preference from blonds to redheads, from thin guys to hunks, etc.

A person doesn't need to identify as bisexual if they are attracted to both men and women. They are plenty of other valid identities that involve attraction to those two genders. Pansexuality, demisexuality, and sapiosexuality to just name a few. A person's sexuality doesn't need to be known to you for it be valid or real; not everyone that finds men and women attractive identifies as bisexual. That is valid.

Again with thee, "I know what your sexual orientation is better than you because my views, ideas, and opinions on your sexuality are more important than yours!" Seriously?

Queer is a slur that means weirdo and is targeted towards lgbt people, similar to faggot, fag, sissy, pansy and similar terms. Labelling yourself "queer" when you are a bisexual man doesn't add anymore accuracy than when a black person call themself "nigger". If anything, it's a testimony of cluelessness on bigotry and its language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer

"Queer is an umbrella term for sexual and gender minorities that are not heterosexual or not cisgender. Originally meaning "strange" or "peculiar", queer came to be deployed pejoratively against those with same-sex desires or relationships in the late-19th century. Beginning in the late-1980s, queer scholars and activists began to reclaim the word to establish community and assert a politicized identity distinct from the gay political identity. Queer identitites may be adopted by those who reject traditional gender identities and seek a broader, less conformist, and deliberately ambiguous alternative to the label LGBT."

Yes, there are enough people that identify as queer to validate an entire wiki page to that lreclaimed label.
Yes, identifying as queer is valid and is FAR MORE COMPLEX that identifying as gay or straight. That's actually kind of the point...

 

[marlins]

No choice - why would any one choose to be the object of discrimination! Born gay - God doesnot make any junk - WE are ALL valuable.

 

[umdoistressilvaquatro]

Once again confusing my words. Pretend the whole world was really racist towards blacks and you're black. Any body with a brain would be able to look at the big picture akd wished they were born Asian or something. I never said I AGREED with the homophobia, Im just being honest and saying ai wish I were born straight to avoid the trouble. This doesnt mean I dont lije being gah, it makes me honest, any idiot could see that this world is kinder to straight pwople

It's interesting that some people believe LGB people are only well-adjusted to their sexuality if they've managed to turn a blind eye to homophobia, as if otherwise it would be a case of internalized homophobia. We must give an impression of confort in our situation and perform it with such conviction to the point we outright deny the existance of homophobia or simply feign to misunderstand the concept.
As if we were not imersed on homophobia during most of our lifes.

 

[alcor972]

wow... smaccoms... wow!...
smaccoms is strongly impressing me in this thread...
I like very much his idea to dissociate gender attraction and sexual attraction...
now I feel I have a good tool to better think about my homosexuality...
what is pansexualism?... because I know at least one member here who has defined himself like this...
thank you...

 

[Smaccoms]

"Pan" is a prefix that means "all". Pansexual refers to a sexuality that is not limited by gender or sex...it indicates a sexuality that is more concerned with whom a person is rather than what they are.

 

[alcor972]

...
Do you mean that a pansexual is attracted toward a kind of particular personality synthesis... and that... he will be interested by the person showing this synthesis off whatever his gender and sex may be?...

 

[dards44]

Did i choose? No I was sucked into it

 

[bravesoldier]

I'm 18 and gay, just came out and I this question has irked me since middle school. Did any of you actually choose to be gay? I'm not asking about whether or not you chose to come out or express youself as gay, I'm asking about whether or not you chose to be attracted to other men. It would boggle me if anyone would. I'm all for pride, but who would want to be a part of a minority struggling to fit in?

I don't believe anyone has a choice in what their body responds to. I believe a person is born how they are. As for choosing otherwise, I think someone can choose what they do with their sexuality. I chose not to be gay at an early age and it worked for me. Much later in life I chose to go with gay because gay is what I really am.

 

[Hornet]

Sexuality is not a choice, not a preference, not a lifestyle (whatever that means!) - nobody chooses to be gay/straight/bi/lesbian/transgender/etc. It's inbuilt and non negotiable. Some people might be more flexible in their orientation (hence straight men being 5% bi, etc) but sexuality is not a choice.

 

[hung9mike]

I don't think anyone can choose his or her sexuality, but you can respond to it... Affirming that you're gay is a choice. So is living in the closet.

 

[1Steve]

I don't believe anyone has a choice in what their body responds to. I believe a person is born how they are. As for choosing otherwise, I think someone can choose what they do with their sexuality. I chose not to be gay at an early age and it worked for me. Much later in life I chose to go with gay because gay is what I really am.

The main point I was trying to make earlier is that our brains are all wired individually. What is "Possible" for one person may be totally impossible for another. Women have it much easier than men when it comes to sexuality. A woman can be raped because she does not have to be a willing participant in the sex act. A man on the other hand (not talking about anal here) can't be raped by a woman because he has to have an erection in order to have sex. I have never had the slightest arousal with women. No amount of conditioning will change that. You can't put a gun to my head and tell me to get hard or else.Nor can I will it to happen. It just won't happen. I could never have a phony str8 marriage unless it was to a woman that wanted companionship and no sex.

 

[Brodie888]

The main point I was trying to make earlier is that our brains are all wired individually. What is "Possible" for one person may be totally impossible for another. Women have it much easier than men when it comes to sexuality. A woman can be raped because she does not have to be a willing participant in the sex act. A man on the other hand (not talking about anal here) can't be raped by a woman because he has to have an erection in order to have sex. I have never had the slightest arousal with women. No amount of conditioning will change that. You can't put a gun to my head and tell me to get hard or else.Nor can I will it to happen. It just won't happen. I could never have a phony str8 marriage unless it was to a woman that wanted companionship and no sex.

Male rape does happen. It's actually a misconception that erection equals consent.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_males