Did you know there was a huge demonstration on Wall Street?

helgaleena

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Oh I think it is! Suppose that all media decided they would only carry favourble pieces about republican candidates and would neglect to report anything said by democrats? It may not be government censorship, but who is doing it is beside the point. The reason there is so much fuss about who owns the media is precisely because they are able to set policies of what will be reported and what will not.

Oh dandelion, it is happening all the time! Rupert Murdoch owns quite a bit of NBC-MGM-Universal, and some rich Muslim owns Fox.
 

Calboner

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Oh I think it is! Suppose that all media decided they would only carry favourble pieces about republican candidates and would neglect to report anything said by democrats? It may not be government censorship, but who is doing it is beside the point. The reason there is so much fuss about who owns the media is precisely because they are able to set policies of what will be reported and what will not.
Who is doing what that is beside the point? Who is censoring whom, on this scenario? What you are describing is a case in which the news media become servants of a political party. That would be the death of journalism, but it is not censorship if there is no one being censored; and I don't see how anyone is being censored in your scenario.
The fact that there is no right to be heard does not say anything about whether some sort of reporting boycot counts as censorship. I am not up on rulings of the US supreme court, but I would suspect that they would take a view, or propably already have taken a view, that freedom of speech includes a right to be heard. Otherwise it is meaningless.
I don't know what exactly you mean by a "right to be heard," but as the point at issue is being publicized by the news media, there is no such thing as a right to that, morally or legally.
 

EagleCowboy

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Ok Calboner

Explain this one!!

Earlier today, someone texted me telling me that yahoo was blocking any email with the words "occupy wall street" in it anywhere. So I decided to try it. I have an aol account that I've had for years. And as of a few months ago, a new yahoo account. I also made sure that the yahoo account was set to always accept emails from my aol account.

I sent 4 emails that I composed from scratch with just random words in it. They all made it to my yahoo account. Then I sent a 5th one with the words "occupy wall street" in the middle of all the random words. It was refused by yahoo.

So I did it all over again. I got the 4 that didn't have "occupy wall street" but this time, the one that DID have that went straight to spam. I told yahoo specifically to accept ALL emails sent from my aol account. It refused twice.

And since I wanted to make absolutely sure before I posted here, I sent 2 more sets of 5. 8 arrived at yahoo, the 2 that had "occupy wall street" did not. They were returned to AOL.

Occupy wall street is still going on, and the media pretty much isn't covering it still. When it IS being covered, they are wrongfully demonizing it.

So I challenge YOU to try it for yourself. Then tell us you don't think it's big media censorship.
 

slurper_la

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reported on Countdown last night, Yahoo admits to filtering out Wall Street - claims it was inadvertent error in spam filtering (yeah right) will be "about 10 days to clear up? wow, really?

next time anyone derides the "liberal press" talk about this event and its lack of coverage by the media.

I bet if 25 TeaPartiers stood on a corner somewhere shouting about taxes the story would be the lead for weeks
 

Calboner

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Ok Calboner

Explain this one!!

Earlier today, someone texted me telling me that yahoo was blocking any email with the words "occupy wall street" in it anywhere. So I decided to try it. I have an aol account that I've had for years. And as of a few months ago, a new yahoo account. I also made sure that the yahoo account was set to always accept emails from my aol account.

I sent 4 emails that I composed from scratch with just random words in it. They all made it to my yahoo account. Then I sent a 5th one with the words "occupy wall street" in the middle of all the random words. It was refused by yahoo.

So I did it all over again. I got the 4 that didn't have "occupy wall street" but this time, the one that DID have that went straight to spam. I told yahoo specifically to accept ALL emails sent from my aol account. It refused twice.

And since I wanted to make absolutely sure before I posted here, I sent 2 more sets of 5. 8 arrived at yahoo, the 2 that had "occupy wall street" did not. They were returned to AOL.

Occupy wall street is still going on, and the media pretty much isn't covering it still. When it IS being covered, they are wrongfully demonizing it.

So I challenge YOU to try it for yourself. Then tell us you don't think it's big media censorship.
I was aware that Yahoo! has been censoring the e-mail messages of its customers. I didn't think that Yahoo! counted as part of the news media. What was at issue is whether the news media were censoring something or somebody in connection with the Wall Street protests. I still don't see how any such thing has happened. Who has been censored by the news media in this event? The protestors? No. The news media have not in any way interfered with or suppressed their demonstrations. The neglect of reportage on an event may constitute bias or even misrepresentation, but it's not censorship.
 

helgaleena

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http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/145...g-systematically-ignored-by-mainstream-media/ There you have it!


BBC News - Wall Street's unwelcome warriors hang on to protest

Wall Street Protesters Attacked By NYPD - Freedom of Speech Denied - YouTube

Yahoo didn't mean to censor emails about Wall Street protests. The truth is much more insidious. - By Zeynep Tufekci - Slate Magazine this is an article specifically about what's going on with Yahoo emails. Yahoo's over-reliance on automation instead of human workers is doing Wall Street a favor.

http://storyful.com/stories/1000008430 according to this link there has been a counter-protest 'champagne party' on Facebook. :tongue:
 
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USN2MD

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Yawn, its an old story.

People who do not work want handouts from people who do. Nothing new or newsworthy there.
 

USN2MD

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Yawn, its an old story. People sitting in their mansions want handins from people who work. The newsworthy bit is that their income has been rising.

Hey bud,

What's keeping you from going out working and getting a mansion? And how does your lot improve if I don't make as much of a profit this year? I can tell you right now, zilch, nada, zero.

Why? Because either you want it or you don't. If you do go out there and get it. Or you can join all the other whiners and chant to each other about how you are in the awful plight you are in. That will get you far in life.
 

midlifebear

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It appears the USN2MD lives in a white tower somewhere completely unaware that the USA is in a serious DEPRESSION, not a recession as the political spinners want everyone to believe. He's of the opinion people want to be homeless, accept welfare, food stamps and do nothing but watch TV all day.

I can tell, without him having to tell us his stats, that he's in his 20s to late 30s, white, male, and as compassionate as a rock. He probably worships Rush Limbaugh, too. He's totally oblivious that millions have lost their jobs; jobs they were more than happy to have to support their families, pay their mortgages, and hope to send their kids to college. Well, that world is a fairy tale in these post Bush-The-Younger times.

It's also a safe bet that USN2MD isn't a businessman who is in the position to create jobs because he needs to hire experts to help him grow his company. And, in lieu of the recent 700+ point drop in the markets last week, if he's a rabid booster for Wall Street, (as is our lovely Starinvestor), he's not as rich as he thinks he is.

And he may call me out a say this is all unfounded speculation. But it isn't speculation that the majority of the middle class has been wiped out and grandmothers and grandfathers who are retired cannot live on Social Security and have to work as greeters as Wall*Mart -- or worse.

Just imagine what crass parents he must have had to turn out so negative and callous.
 
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USN2MD

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Well quite a few misconceptions here. Since your profile indicates that you have reached mid life, its a shame that you have not grown out of making assumptions about others. But enough about you:


It appears the USN2MD lives in a white tower somewhere completely unaware that the USA is in a serious DEPRESSION, not a recession as the political spinners want everyone to believe. He's of the opinion people want to be homeless, accept welfare, food stamps and do nothing but watch TV all day.

I can tell, without him having to tell us his stats, that he's in his 20s to late 30s, white, male, and as compassionate as a rock. He probably worships Rush Limbaugh, too. He's totally oblivious that millions have lost their jobs; jobs they were more than happy to have to support their families, pay their mortgages, and hope to send their kids to college. Well, that world is a fairy tale in these post Bush-The-Younger times.

It's also a safe bet that USN2MD isn't a businessman who is in the position to create jobs because he needs to hire experts to help him grow his company. And, in lieu of the recent 700+ point drop in the markets last week, if he's a rabid booster for Wall Street, (as is our lovely Starinvestor), he's not as rich as he thinks he is.

And he may call me out a say this is all unfounded speculation. But it isn't speculation that the majority of the middle class has been wiped out and grandmothers and grandfathers who are retired cannot live on Social Security and have to work as greeters as Wall*Mart -- or worse.

Just imagine what crass parents he must have had to turn out so negative and callous.

I am in my early 30's that is true. I have heard Rush Limbaugh but mostly due to work constraints I do not listen to him, nor am I a convert of his. I am male but Hispanic. I came from a pretty rough neighborhood and the US Navy saved me from either being killed or in prison.

I was raised by a single mother who worked very hard to support her children and taught us never to feel sorry for ourselves or our situation, just work and make things better for yourself because no one else will.

Im not in business I am in Medicine. I went from being a Gangster, high school dropout to getting my GED then becoming a Medical Corpsman in the USN. The Navy (and the marine units to which I was assigned) taught me about discipline and focus. I attained an undergraduate degree while on active duty then went to medical school. I worked very hard to support myself through medical school, residency and then in fellowship. Today I practice Interventional Cardiology and while I do dabble in stocks I prefer real estate which can be picked up really cheap these days.

Im not sure what rich is, I am comfortable and if I want or need more I will go out and work for it. That Mr. Midlifbear is my point. If you want something go out and work for it, do not begrudge others their success because most people had to work hard to get it. Sure there is the exception, like the rich kids I went to med school with who weekended at their families country estates while I did reserve duty or tried to sell a house to pay my bills. They would look down on me with the same arrogance that you display here.

But in the end, what I have is mine, no one gave it to me, I never asked for anything, never whined and the thought of protesting someone else for their money is as foreign a concept to me as reasoned thought is apparently to you.
 

helgaleena

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It's not only people who are not working. You and I are the 99% and we are living on 40% of the wealth. The rich are getting richer and the bottom of the pile is getting poorer. Has nothing to do with how you have made things better for yourself. Do not assume that the ones protesting are starving. They are merely wishing that they were not making less in real terms than thirty years ago.

Nor is welfare and compassion to blame for human misery. Please feel gratitude toward all the surrounding structures you climbed to get where you are and hope they are not undercut for others.
 

dandelion

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I was raised by a single mother who worked very hard to support her children and taught us never to feel sorry for ourselves or our situation, just work and make things better for yourself because no one else will.
hey, that was an interesting post in reply.

It is an interesting post about yourself but at the end I am not quite sure what your position on taxation really is. Curiously enough, what you have said is that the care provided to you by the government turned your life around and made it a success. The training and discipline which the government paid for when you were in the navy made the difference for you. I dont know how long you were in the marines, but I would think this amounted to quite a bit.

Myself, I think the amount of money spent by governments around the world on the military is ridiculously huge. The US as the case in point spending more than any other country. You are an example of good coming from that money, but for me it would have been better spent directly on education, or if you wanted to find a real home for such a huge sum, on medical care. Or, if you really do not believe in state intervention, then not spent at all.

Your story is a case in point of the welfare state turning someones life around.

I was trying to find some figures on the cost of government. This seems a bit difficult for the US because you have two governments each with a budget and depending on which state. I checked some figures for the UK which say about 28% is spent on unemployment benefits and pensions. 18% on health, 13% on education, 6% defence, 5% police, 4% debt, 4% housing, 3% transport, and whatever. These figures must be a bit ballpark without going into them properly to separate them better. A different website suggests 18% pensions and 16% welfare, which may be due to looking at it from where the money goes rather than which department spends it. Government spending is about 1/4 of GDP. I dont know what that means exactly, either people pay about 1/4 of their income or about £10,000 each. The median salary is about £20,000 and the average £26,000, which rather implies salaries tend to shoot up at the top end. So obviously, the average person does not pay £10,000 to the government. The question is, would you be happy paying some or all of this?

I would suggest that everyone needs healthcare, and if people can not afford it, then they need it all the more. It comes in the same category as education. A state provides education free because it is good for everyone that people are educated. Likewise, good they are healthy. maybe you do not agree? Myself, I do not regard it as acceptable that people die because they are poor.

I also think that universal benefits are a lot better than means tested ones. If you only give people something because they are poor, then you create an incentive to stay poor. But on the other hand I think everyone is entitled not to starve in a society as rich as ours. Most of the wealth we enjoy was not earned by anyone but just comes from exploiting the planet we live on. Everyone deserves a share.

But in the end, what I have is mine, no one gave it to me, I never asked for anything, never whined and the thought of protesting someone else for their money is as foreign a concept to me as reasoned thought is apparently to you.
Sorry, but that isnt true. Someone brought you up. Human babies do not survive to grow up without care. Someone kept you alive far enough to join the navy. The navy paid to turn you into a decent citizen. You went to a medical school probably funded by gifts from past students. You learnt what people had spent lives discovering. You buy stuff people have spent lives developing. You live in a house made from bricks made from clay someone just dug out of the ground fired by burning oil someone else dug up for you. Yes, you are now contributing your bit but most of what you now enjoy was created by generations before you were born.
 

Calboner

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Sorry, but that isnt true. Someone brought you up. Human babies do not survive to grow up without care. Someone kept you alive far enough to join the navy. The navy paid to turn you into a decent citizen. You went to a medical school probably funded by gifts from past students. You learnt what people had spent lives discovering. You buy stuff people have spent lives developing. You live in a house made from bricks made from clay someone just dug out of the ground fired by burning oil someone else dug up for you. Yes, you are now contributing your bit but most of what you now enjoy was created by generations before you were born.
Words in a similar vein, addressed to the followers of Ayn Rand, from Sam Harris:

Many of my critics pretend that they have been entirely self-made. They seem to feel responsible for their intellectual gifts, for their freedom from injury and disease, and for the fact that they were born at a specific moment in history. Many appear to have absolutely no awareness of how lucky one must be to succeed at anything in life, no matter how hard one works. One must be lucky to be able to work. One must be lucky to be intelligent, to not have cerebral palsy, or to not have been bankrupted in middle age by the mortal illness of a spouse.

Many of us have been extraordinarily lucky—and we did not earn it. Many good people have been extraordinarily unlucky—and they did not deserve it. And yet I get the distinct sense that if I asked some of my readers why they weren’t born with club feet, or orphaned before the age of five, they would not hesitate to take credit for these accomplishments. There is a stunning lack of insight into the unfolding of human events that passes for moral and economic wisdom in some circles. And it is pernicious. Followers of Rand, in particular, believe that only a blind reliance on market forces and the narrowest conception of self interest can steer us collectively toward the best civilization possible and that any attempt to impose wisdom or compassion from the top—no matter who is at the top and no matter what the need—is necessarily corrupting of the whole enterprise. This conviction is, at the very least, unproven. And there are many reasons to believe that it is dangerously wrong.
 

arkfarmbear

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Well quite a few misconceptions here. Since your profile indicates that you have reached mid life, its a shame that you have not grown out of making assumptions about others. But enough about you:




I am in my early 30's that is true. I have heard Rush Limbaugh but mostly due to work constraints I do not listen to him, nor am I a convert of his. I am male but Hispanic. I came from a pretty rough neighborhood and the US Navy saved me from either being killed or in prison.

I was raised by a single mother who worked very hard to support her children and taught us never to feel sorry for ourselves or our situation, just work and make things better for yourself because no one else will.

Im not in business I am in Medicine. I went from being a Gangster, high school dropout to getting my GED then becoming a Medical Corpsman in the USN. The Navy (and the marine units to which I was assigned) taught me about discipline and focus. I attained an undergraduate degree while on active duty then went to medical school. I worked very hard to support myself through medical school, residency and then in fellowship. Today I practice Interventional Cardiology and while I do dabble in stocks I prefer real estate which can be picked up really cheap these days.

Im not sure what rich is, I am comfortable and if I want or need more I will go out and work for it. That Mr. Midlifbear is my point. If you want something go out and work for it, do not begrudge others their success because most people had to work hard to get it. Sure there is the exception, like the rich kids I went to med school with who weekended at their families country estates while I did reserve duty or tried to sell a house to pay my bills. They would look down on me with the same arrogance that you display here.

But in the end, what I have is mine, no one gave it to me, I never asked for anything, never whined and the thought of protesting someone else for their money is as foreign a concept to me as reasoned thought is apparently to you.

That looks like whining to me. Hypocrisy?
 

helgaleena

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That looks like whining to me. Hypocrisy?

I think he imagines sneers here when they are actually coming from the 1%...
He fears his own success perhaps, or thinks it will dehumanize him to identify with a majority. He is in a caring profession where he earns every cent honestly, unlike some. But those who do not earn their money honestly are actually very few, whether they are at the bottom or the top of the social structure.

Not only minorities are oppressed. Sometimes the minorities are privileged. It's quite a talent to enjoy special things without wishing the same joy to everyone. But so many people can manage it. I myself am working on it.

Trying to silence a cry by suffocating the one in discomfort can backfire. The ones arresting the press will find this out.
 

helgaleena

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helgaleena

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