Did you vote for trump? if so/ why

[Klingsor]

I believe the only creditable way Trumps detractors can honestly engage him is to present ideas/strategies of their own and be able to defend them.

There are plenty of alternative ideas/strategies--many of them put out by the Clinton and Sanders campaigns.

But in some cases, the most appropriate counter to a Trump proposal is simply, "Are you fucking crazy? Don't DO that!"

Anyone can stand on the sideline and criticize with no plan of their own... now or ever.

Oh, the irony. The Republicans had seven years to come up with a healthcare plan of their own, and still don't have one. (I know what you're going to say, but that one's DOA).

 

[BULLDOG00]

Oh, the irony. The Republicans had seven years to come up with a healthcare plan of their own, and still don't have one. (I know what you're going to say, but that one's DOA).

Those Republicans you are talking about are the establishment elite Republicans like Paul Ryan, John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell etc. These men are generally detested by Trump supporters. The elite establishment politicians, both Democrat and Republican are the enemies of the interests of the American people. They are not looking for solutions.

 

[Klingsor]

Those Republicans you are talking about are the establishment elite Republicans like Paul Ryan, John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell etc. These men are generally detested by Trump supporters. The elite establishment politicians, both Democrat and Republican are the enemies of the interests of the American people. They are not looking for solutions.

So far as healthcare goes, Trump and his supporters don't have a solution either.

 

[BULLDOG00]

So far as healthcare goes, Trump and his supporters don't have a solution either.

I have two solutions. Option A is a free market solution. Option B is a government based solution.

Option A:
- Allow the sale of health insurance policies across state lines. (some states only have 1 or 2 insurers)
- Prohibit insurers from pricing policies based on age, gender and preexisting conditions.
- Pricing can be based on coverage desired only.
- Allow the sale of different types of policies, i.e. catastrophic, low and high deductibles, various coverage types.
- Tax credit for the cost of private pay policies and tax breaks for employers who provide insurance.
- All government workers, including Congress, must be on paid marketplace plans
- Politicians receive ZERO government benefits or pensions after leaving office.
- Cost saving incentives to consumers. Credits and discounts to consumers using lower priced medical providers and services.
- Enact policies to make medical pricing transparent and disclosed to the consumer. (does anyone know what their doctor or hospital charges for anything?)

Option B:
- Cut foreign aide and military spending to fund Medicare for all.

Honestly, if we stop paying for the needs and wants of the rest of the world, option B is probably a better deal for Americans.

 

[Klingsor]

I have two solutions. Option A is a free market solution. Option B is a government based solution.

Option A:
- Allow the sale of health insurance policies across state lines. (some states only have 1 or 2 insurers)
- Prohibit insurers from pricing policies based on age, gender and preexisting conditions.
- Pricing can be based on coverage desired only.
- Allow the sale of different types of policies, i.e. catastrophic, low and high deductibles, various coverage types.
- Tax credit for the cost of private pay policies and tax breaks for employers who provide insurance.
- All government workers, including Congress, must be on paid marketplace plans
- Politicians receive ZERO government benefits or pensions after leaving office.
- Cost saving incentives to consumers. Credits and discounts to consumers using lower priced medical providers and services.
- Enact policies to make medical pricing transparent and disclosed to the consumer. (does anyone know what their doctor or hospital charges for anything?)

Option B:
- Cut foreign aide and military spending to fund Medicare for all.

Honestly, if we stop paying for the needs and wants of the rest of the world, option B is probably a better deal for Americans.

Now see, when you post like this, no one will call you a troll.

I'd opt for B, though leaning more toward cuts in military spending than foreign aid. Remember that Medicare for all would be largely funded by higher taxes, which would be more than offset by not having to pay insurance premiums and deductibles. Cutting out the middle man.

 

[Industrialsize]

1% of the United States Budget is spent on Foreign Aid. That includes both military and humanitarian assistance. That's ONE percent.

Now see, when you post like this, no one will call you a troll.

I'd opt for B, though leaning more toward cuts in military spending than foreign aid. Remember that Medicare for all would be largely funded by higher taxes, which would be more than offset by not having to pay insurance premiums and deductibles. Cutting out the middle man.

FYI: Foreign aid, including military and humanitarian, constitutes less than 1% of the United States Budget.

 

[malakos]

So far it's about evenly divided between not fulfilling his promises and not being able to carry them out.

Not trying to be mean, but saying that he hasn't yet fulfilled any of his promises is just plain ignorant or delusional or biased.

 

[malakos]

The people who think being an asshole "just because you can" is something to be proud of.

Again, no. That's a gross oversimplification of the motives of Trump loyalists. This is a holdover of the lingering blindness that prevented people from perceiving that he could win and led them to be shocked when he did. Apparently many of you still don't get why many people voted for him. Newflash: it was not because 1/2 of voters value being an asshole.

Really, if you had said this of Milo Yiannopoulos fandom it would have been closer to accurate. Because getting under people's skin and offending them is actually his overriding MO, unlike Mr. Trump.

 

[malakos]

Those Republicans you are talking about are the establishment elite Republicans like Paul Ryan, John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell etc. These men are generally detested by Trump supporters. The elite establishment politicians, both Democrat and Republican are the enemies of the interests of the American people. They are not looking for solutions.

Whether that's true or not, the way Congress works, nothing's going to get done without them. You can't just cast aside a large chunk of your congressional majority and expect to achieve anything.

 

[malakos]

Option B:
- Cut foreign aide and military spending to fund Medicare for all.

Honestly, if we stop paying for the needs and wants of the rest of the world, option B is probably a better deal for Americans.

I'd opt for B, though leaning more toward cuts in military spending than foreign aid.

Do you two realize how stiff of a bill this is? How impractical of a suggestion it is that we cut military spending? How much weight the military industry pulls in our society?

 

[Klingsor]

Not trying to be mean, but saying that he hasn't yet fulfilled any of his promises is just plain ignorant or delusional or biased.

You're right, it's not entirely fair. It's partly that Trump has quietly slipped some of his "successes" under the radar, with very little fanfare, knowing how poorly they would be received, while his failures have been spectacularly public.

And by the way, I put healthcare first on that list--Trump and his minions holding a big White House celebration for passing a House bill that was immediately pronounced DOA by the Senate.

 

[Klingsor]

Do you two realize how stiff of a bill this is? How impractical of a suggestion it is that we cut military spending? How much weight the military industry pulls in our society?

I see your point. No country in the world has ever had universal healthcare. Why should we think we can do it?

 

[phonehome]

MAL--- Ok here is the thing

When his supporters were asked at his rallies why they liked him, supported him, cast it any way you want one of the more popular answers was something along the lines "because he says those things that I can't say" the unspoken rest of that being "but I want to"

In other words he was the asshole that they wished they could be but gee they might get fired or whatever

More than 90% of the time "those things" were when he was being this loud mouth bloviating asshole not unlike their heroes in the media, Bill, Sean and Rush.

Now fast forward 6 months later and many of those same people ARE saying those things and justifying it by saying "well the president says stuff like that"

 

[622675]

I see your point. No country in the world has ever had universal healthcare. Why should we think we can do it?

It takes so little effort to be critical of an issue without knowing the facts.

Consider this information regarding medical research. This variable suggests that the US with its current mix of military strength and medical support is doing a lot to advance healthcare for everyone.

Also, consider the fact that the US military medical establishment provides training for around ½ million professionals each year in nearly all discipline areas and maintains support facilities in a majority of the world’s countries.

https://www.quora.com/What-countrie...-research-and-innovation-in-the-past-20-years

 

[Klingsor]

It takes so little effort to be critical of an issue without knowing the facts.

Consider this information regarding medical research. This variable suggests that the US with its current mix of military strength and medical support is doing a lot to advance healthcare for everyone.

Also, consider the fact that the US military medical establishment provides training for around ½ million professionals each year in nearly all discipline areas and maintains support facilities in a majority of the world’s countries.

https://www.quora.com/What-countrie...-research-and-innovation-in-the-past-20-years

Why are you guys so hung up on the military? I wasn't the one who suggested cuts to military spending--least of all to military medical spending.

Back to my original point: I'm in favor of true universal healthcare, Medicare for all, if you will--however it gets paid for. As I've indicated, this would involve higher taxes, offset by the elimination of premiums and deductibles. We'd cut out the rapacious middle man of the health insurance industry, ultimately resulting in a more efficient and cost-effective healthcare system. Other developed nations have pointed the way; it's embarrassing that we're so far behind.

 

[622675]

Why are you guys so hung up on the military? I wasn't the one who suggested cuts to military spending--least of all to military medical spending.

Back to my original point: I'm in favor of true universal healthcare, Medicare for all, if you will--however it gets paid for. As I've indicated, this would involve higher taxes, offset by the elimination of premiums and deductibles. We'd cut out the rapacious middle man of the health insurance industry, ultimately resulting in a more efficient and cost-effective healthcare system. Other developed nations have pointed the way; it's embarrassing that we're so far behind.

I agree that universal healthcare is a great objective, but your strategy is not going to get us there. Something like our current VA health system is what we would likely get.

Did I mention that one of the Vets I take to see his doctor started having sever headache and the VA set him up with an appointment --- 15 June--- 2018.

Whatever the plan, it must have accountability from both patient and provider, and competition to keep innovation going and prices low as possible.

 

[Klingsor]

I agree that universal healthcare is a great objective, but your strategy is not going to get us there.

I didn't mention a strategy to get us there, just the objective. If I *had* a strategy, you wouldn't see me hanging around here.

Something like our current VA health system is what we would likely get.

Maybe, though I think the notion of "expanded Medicare" could resonate with a lot of people get some real support.

 

[Chrysippus]

I didn't mention a strategy to get us there, just the objective. If I *had* a strategy, you wouldn't see me hanging around here.

So you hang around LPSG because you don't have a health-care strategy?

 

[Klingsor]

So you hang around LPSG because you don't have a health-care strategy?

Doesn't everyone?

 

[Chrysippus]

Doesn't everyone?

In fact I do: just don't get sick--ever.