Died from a lonely heart?

Smooth88

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Rugbypup going to therapy/counseling is ok. You just need to make a connection that you dont know how to make. If youre as nice as you sound theyll be more inclined to help you. My therapist is very attached to me and I've grown to view her as the mother that I never really had. I'm just trying to make a connection and so are you. Counseling should do nothing but help.
 

B_Nick4444

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don't blow your cash on counseling ... just go out and get laid ... Auckland has good bars and clubs ... then get laid again,

if you're any good at it, your phone won't stop ringing
 

D_Gunther Snotpole

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don't blow your cash on counseling ... just go out and get laid ... Auckland has good bars and clubs ... then get laid again, if you're any good at it, your phone won't stop ringing

But Nick, he probably won't be especially good at first.
Many aren't, even looking at those who got hungrily into sex in their teens.
And if you've been an avoider, then you probably have a lot of conflicts that will complicate things.
(Sorry, rugbypup, but ...)
Personally, I think counselling might be a good thing.
The trick is to find a good counsellor.
 

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Yes, I think you need to be able to reach out for help and admit your situation to someone in real life. I have a hard time doing that myself and I think a lot of people do. And the longer you wait to reach out the harder it seems to get. If not a counselor, then maybe you could open up to a close friend that you trust.
 

arkfarmbear

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I'm an oldster, in my 50s, and I can identify with rugbypup's situation. I grew up in a small, hick, religion-dominated town. My family supported the church. We were there, and involved, if the doors were open. I didn't really begin to enjoy life until I moved to a huge city.
Is there a way you can relocate to a city that is considered positive for gay men? Some people will respond that they are "not into the lifestyle." Neither am I, but I discovered that if the city or resort is well known for being gay friendly there will be lots of other ways to connect with gay people besides going to the bars, tricking and all of the other negative stereotypes we get painted with. I also discovered that in those places gay folks are seen as simply another person. My straight acquaintances were more willing to introduce me to prospective mates than my gay friends!
I once heard a minister say "guilt is when you feel bad about what you did, shame is when you feel bad about what you are." In most places around the world gay people are led to feel we should be ashamed. I still don't think that is or was God's intent. But, when the ruling powers send that message repeatedly it colors the mindset of the truly decent people, too. They are prejudiced without really recognizing it.
 

B_Monster

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Rugbypup,

I just wanna grab you up, scratch behind your ears and say "Good Puppy, Good Puppy." and give you a big kiss on that puppy dog face.

You express yourself so well here and your other post, I can't imagine NOT wanting to know you.
 

Rugbypup

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Rugbypup,

I just wanna grab you up, scratch behind your ears and say "Good Puppy, Good Puppy." and give you a big kiss on that puppy dog face.

You express yourself so well here and your other post, I can't imagine NOT wanting to know you.

If I promise not to take up much room, may I sleep at the foot of your bed, lol.

Thank you for such a kind post. :redface:
 

headbang8

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Rugbypup,

Time for a bit of tough love.

I love ya. I really do. Your posts here are articulate, intelligent, and show a deep, loving soul that not only deserves happiness, but will give much happiness to others. "Will"? If you look, you will find those to whom you have already given much happiness. They're there, I assure you.

That was the love part. Here's the tough part.

Kenneth Williams didn't die of loneliness. He died of shame.

There's no reason you need to do the same. But it will take courage on your part. That's tough, but you have to do it.

You have nothing to be ashamed of. Being gay is nothing to be ashamed of. More important, wanting to be happy is nothing to be ashamed of. "Emotionally harsh" parents can convince you that just showing up on the planet and needing to be taken care of should make you feel guilty. Being happy is not a luxury, or worse, some kind of vanity. It's a necessity.

If your parents cut you off penniless, then good. It's worth it, whatever the sums involved.

If they cut off contact, that's also good. I was raised by "emotionally harsh" people, too. When I tasted real love--even a small taste--I realised that the "love" they withheld was worth very, very little.

Let me let you in on a secret. Your parents don't like you very much. In truth, they don't like anyone very much. It's nothing personal--so don't labour under the impression that there's anything you can do about it, or worse, assume that their disapproval is your fault. NOTHING you do will gain their approval, or love, or whatever you want to call it. My advice is to get out of their line of fire. You've already done that physically; now do it emotionally.

Easier said than done, as you've discovered.

You know what? You've got to learn a few lessons in life that you've missed out on. Like how to love, and be loved. You should have learned that at your mother's breast; obviously you didn't, and now you need to learn it as an adult. And like any other instinct, it's harder to learn as an adult. But not impossible.

Learning to love is a virtuous circle. You learn to love others by being loved yourself.

At first you'll be clumsy at love. You'll be emotionally needy. You'll misread cues. You'll attract other fucked-up people like yourself--now, that's not always a bad thing, but be careful that you don't simply trap yourself in the cycle of lovelessness that your family of origin trapped you in. Do not hesitate to break that circle when you find yourself in one.

You will do things that make you feel ashamed, or at least embarrassed. But this time, it's shame in a worthy cause. Embarrassment that you can learn from. Own up to your shame, admit your emotional mistakes and misjudgments, and move on.

That's the hard work of learning to love as an adult. If you make these emotional mistakes as a child or teen, the world forgives you. The adult world regards the same behaviour as flaky or neurotic. Alas, you'll just need to swallow your pride, and barrel on through. Emotional instincts are hard to change, but it is possible. And necessary.

In many ways, it's easier to learn these lessons as a gay man. Our intimacy is more fluid, and many of us have been in the same situation with families and loved ones.

IMHO, both Nick and Rubi are right. To Nick's point, unless you get out there, snog a few likely lads at the local gay pub, engage in a bit of slap and tickle (safely, of course) and get your heart broken, you'll never make progress. It will seem discouraging at first, but little by little, you'll feel more at ease with intimacy. Eventually, you'll find love, even if it's just in a small way at first.

On the other hand, the "emotional harshness" you suffered in your family has another name. It's called emotional abuse. No, I'm not exaggerating. Your troubled state of mind didn't descend on you from thin air; in my experience and observation, it stems from serious shit in your family of origin.

As Rubi said, that tends to need a trained counsellor or therapist. Here's a suggestion: go to your GP, let him or her know that you're wrestling with issues of sexuality, and ask for a referral. If you'd like to do it with a gay GP, then call here for the name of a gay-friendly doc.

While you have them on the line, you might like to ask them about peer support groups for those coming out. I did a couple of these in Melbourne when, like you, I came out in my thirties. I found them invaluable.

You asked a question, pup. How long can you live with shame and loneliness until the pain of it kills you? I have quite a precise answer to this question.

Age fifty seems to be a crunch time for men. That's when you have to face the fact that you are what you are, and your life is what you have made it, not what you will make it.

That's a tough spot to be in the closet, No wonder male suicides soar in the fifties age group. How old was Kenneth Williams when he suicided?

Rugbypup, I'm sorry of some of these words sound harsh--probably, the last thing you need is more "emotional harshness", from a complete stranger, no less.

You asked an oblique question about suicide. This thread isn't an idle question about a Carry-On star. It's about you, that much is obvious. Your life has reached a stage where you've let the genii out of the bottle, and he's not going back. That's scary. You need courage--like love, courage begets itself; show a little courage, and the next courageous act becomes easier.

Now, go out and fix the situation. No excuses about how much your parents will be disappointed. No excuses about how you'll be clumsy at love.

Go out and make mistakes. Fail at love. Fail again. And again. Then get your heart broken. Then find, to your surprise, that someone thinks you're OK. Fuck up. Ask forgiveness. Forgive other men you love for their own foibles and weaknesses. And maybe, just maybe, find Mr Right. You've earned him.
 

Primal_Savage

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....In short, he was never able to accept or be accepted for his homosexuality, for a number of reason and therefore became imprisoned by it, remaining in solitude, asexuality and celibate all his life and final committing suicide, dying of a lonely heart.

He was desperate to know love, be loved, but never was. His diaries describe his intimate encounters as brief and unconsummated, always.

The show really hurt to watch, parts felt so close to the bone I was on the verge of tears. Being afraid of your own sexuality, knowing deep down your normal but also deeply ashamed as everything in life has told you you're not.

The social, religious and personal implications of being gay, of praying that you might one day know what love is, this word that so many people flitter about with the same regard as a plastic carrier bag, yet I have never encountered in my life and am bemused by the ease with which some many others have.

It made me sad because I'm 30 this year, still a virgin, still deeply in the closet and have never known the intimacy or affections of an adult relationship. I've never been brought a birthday or Christmas gift by a partner, been kissed or told, "I love you."

It made me sad because I've lived my whole life not knowing any different, it made me sad because for the first time i realised, there is a possibility that I too could live my life, my whole life alone and finally drop dead somewhere, some when with a lonely untouched heart and nothing I do will change that.

It's made me really want to do something about it all, but has also made me realise that actually, I don't have a clue how and I don't know what to do about it.

How many men have lived a life like Kenneth’s?

Is it actually a load of bollocks that lonely people cling to, to think there is someone for everyone?

Am I alone?


No you're not alone. I can identify with most of the points you've raised. Am a 38 year-old bisexual. Am anything but a virgin. For 10 years was a dick dancer, experiencing lots of guys/chicks lusting for my body, yet never actually knowing what it's like to be loved or able to commit to another person. Always feeling that the expression "I love you" was nothing but a cruel lie. Years in denial,self-hatred for being bi-sexual, helpless to do anything about it, and definitely ashamed of that fact. Joining lpsg has been good therapy as I now know that I share a lot of common feelings with other guys on this site. Lately, with all the threads on muscle guys and cock size, have made me realize that my bodybuilding efforts may be a way of compensating for my bi-sexuality (rather than size) and the need to be adored. Maybe that's fucked up, but it's really the way I feel.
 

Rugbypup

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Rugbypup, Time for a bit of tough love...


I...

I don't really know what to say...

:frown1:

I didn't intend any offense that's for sure nor belittle anyones life experence.

I hear and understand parts of what you've said on many different levels and while I would disagree with other parts, it is an insightful, honest, genuine post and I thank you for it.

I need time to read and reread it.
 
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D_Gunther Snotpole

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is that an actual syndrome?
since reading E. Fuller Torrey's, "Death of Psychiatry", have not put any stock into psychiatry, psychotherapy, et al

Well, one book won't decide it.
That said, it's obvious that much therapy achieves little, and achieves what it achieves only slowly. But that depends on the problem, the therapist, and of course the patient.
I know lots of people who have benefitted, and I have benefitted myself.
The question is, what better course does rugbypup have?
(I don't pretend that there aren't several good responses to that last question ... and I ask it sincerely, Nick.)

I also agree with the posters who say that rugbypup should be living in a gay-friendly city, if he isn't already.
Even if he steers clear of the bars and the usual nightlife, he will have more opportunities to meet other gay people and will just get more permission to be himself from the whole vibe of the city.
Makes a real difference when you're coming out.
 

Primal_Savage

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I...

I don't really know what to say...

:frown1:

I didn't intend any offense that's for sure nor belittle anyones life experence.

I hear and understand parts of what you've said on many different levels and while I would disagree with other parts, it is an insightful, honest, genuine post and I thank you for it.

I need time to read and reread it.

Not sure, if you were referring to my most or not. I sure didn't feel that it was offensive. Your original posts actually hit a nerve and in a way it was like looking in a mirror and felt compelled to respond. As a few others have said, here's a big hug for starting this thread. Now, go get laid.
 

D_Gunther Snotpole

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I love ya. I really do. Your posts here are articulate, intelligent, and show a deep, loving soul that not only deserves happiness, but will give much happiness to others.

Ain't it true, though?

Let me let you in on a secret. Your parents don't like you very much. In truth, they don't like anyone very much. It's nothing personal--so don't labour under the impression that there's anything you can do about it, or worse, assume that their disapproval is your fault. NOTHING you do will gain their approval, or love, or whatever you want to call it. My advice is to get out of their line of fire. You've already done that physically; now do it emotionally.

You know, headbang, I just have a slight hesitation here. We don't know, and perhaps rugbypup himself doesn't know, how much his view of his parents reflects the reality. That's all I want to say. Looking into this might be a necessary project.
(He, and you, could of course be spot on.)

While you have them on the line, you might like to ask them about peer support groups for those coming out. I did a couple of these in Melbourne when, like you, I came out in my thirties. I found them invaluable.

Peer support group ... now, that could be really helpful. Yup.

Go out and make mistakes. Fail at love. Fail again. And again. Then get your heart broken. Then find, to your surprise, that someone thinks you're OK. Fuck up. Ask forgiveness. Forgive other men you love for their own foibles and weaknesses. And maybe, just maybe, find Mr Right. You've earned him.

Beautiful, headbang.
 
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dreamer20

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Rugbypup,

Kenneth Williams didn't die of loneliness. He died of shame.
You asked a question, pup. How long can you live with shame and loneliness until the pain of it kills you? I have quite a precise answer to this question.
Age fifty seems to be a crunch time for men. That's when you have to face the fact that you are what you are, and your life is what you have made it, not what you will make it.

He was 62 headbang8.:kiss:
 
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Ms.Teacher

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It is not something my family would, could or want to understand. I know them and they are all actually quite emotionaly harsh people. I'm not saying I was unloved by them, I love my family but they're just not the sort of people that would know how to understand, even if they wanted too. It would be far more trouble than it's worth.

You're not a serial killer. You're gay. What do you think they're going to do if you come out to them? Kill you. Kill themselves. Not talk to you anymore. You can't wait until they're 6 feet under to start living your life.

I do hope i'll met someone one day, the question is, how long is it before hope is all one really has any more. Is there a point that hope it's self becomes self delusion?

Someday you will meet someone, but if you're not out, then what? You'll never be able to go with him anywhere for fear of being discovered. If you visit your parents you won't be able to bring him, or you'll tell them he's a "friend".

A few people have said about a counsellor, but i find that idea kinda frightening. I was brought up, that people who seek counselling are nutters or too weak to cope with the reality of their lives.

Find a gay friendly counselor and go once. If you don't like it, don't go back. Maybe he/she can help you understand yourself, and give you some sound advice on how to deal with your family. You don't deserve to live with this internal pain. No pup does.

That's why I'm finding it very cathartic, liberating, to saying all this, anonymously to strangers, and what fine strangers you all are.

This is sort of online therapy coming from people all over the world, but only you can help yourself. We can give you all the hugs in the world from cyberspace, but you need one or a few in real life every once in a while. :cool:

don't blow your cash on counseling ... just go out and get laid ... Auckland has good bars and clubs ... then get laid again,

if you're any good at it, your phone won't stop ringing

Come on.
:rolleyes:

Pup, my brother had fears of coming out because he felt that there were expectations of him that he couldn't live up to. When he realized he didn't have to live up to anyone's expectations, it was very healing for him. For example:

He thought people would hate him when he came out. They didn't.
He thought he would get disowned by the family. He didn't.
He thought he'd have to live in San Francisco, Provincetown, or another gay area to fit in. He didn't go to a gay area, and he fits in where he is.
He thought he couldn't be a Christian anymore. He's still a Christian.
He thought he'd have to go from guy to guy and hookup to hookup. He didn't.
He thought he'd have to participate in certain sex acts he saw in gay porn and didn't like. He doesn't.
He thought he'd never have a long term relationship. He does.
He thought he'd have to have an open relationship. He doesn't.

I could go on and on, but I don't have to. You get my point?

He thought a lot of things were expected of him as a gay man, and he wanted to play by his rules and nobody else's. A lot of what he read about the gay community and heard about from friends were things he couldn't agree with. Frank Sinatra sang "My Way".

My bro is doing it his way. :biggrin1: And you will too! :wink:


 
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Charles Finn

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boy what a life I have led
I am now single and 40 but I have been me for 40 years and no one can tell me what to do.
i Know it is hard but it is your life do not live in fear of what others think of you
if they want you to be happy they will eventually accept you for who and what you are.
 

Smooth88

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If they cut off contact, that's also good. I was raised by "emotionally harsh" people, too. When I tasted real love--even a small taste--I realised that the "love" they withheld was worth very, very little.

Let me let you in on a secret. Your parents don't like you very much. In truth, they don't like anyone very much. It's nothing personal--so don't labour under the impression that there's anything you can do about it, or worse, assume that their disapproval is your fault. NOTHING you do will gain their approval, or love, or whatever you want to call it. My advice is to get out of their line of fire. You've already done that physically; now do it emotionally.

Easier said than done, as you've discovered.

You know what? You've got to learn a few lessons in life that you've missed out on. Like how to love, and be loved. You should have learned that at your mother's breast; obviously you didn't, and now you need to learn it as an adult. And like any other instinct, it's harder to learn as an adult. But not impossible.

Learning to love is a virtuous circle. You learn to love others by being loved yourself.

At first you'll be clumsy at love. You'll be emotionally needy. You'll misread cues. You'll attract other fucked-up people like yourself--now, that's not always a bad thing, but be careful that you don't simply trap yourself in the cycle of lovelessness that your family of origin trapped you in. Do not hesitate to break that circle when you find yourself in one.

You will do things that make you feel ashamed, or at least embarrassed. But this time, it's shame in a worthy cause. Embarrassment that you can learn from. Own up to your shame, admit your emotional mistakes and misjudgments, and move on.

That's the hard work of learning to love as an adult. If you make these emotional mistakes as a child or teen, the world forgives you. The adult world regards the same behaviour as flaky or neurotic. Alas, you'll just need to swallow your pride, and barrel on through. Emotional instincts are hard to change, but it is possible. And necessary.

In many ways, it's easier to learn these lessons as a gay man. Our intimacy is more fluid, and many of us have been in the same situation with families and loved ones.

On the other hand, the "emotional harshness" you suffered in your family has another name. It's called emotional abuse. No, I'm not exaggerating. Your troubled state of mind didn't descend on you from thin air; in my experience and observation, it stems from serious shit in your family of origin.

Rugbypup, I'm sorry of some of these words sound harsh--probably, the last thing you need is more "emotional harshness", from a complete stranger, no less.

You asked an oblique question about suicide. This thread isn't an idle question about a Carry-On star. It's about you, that much is obvious. Your life has reached a stage where you've let the genii out of the bottle, and he's not going back. That's scary. You need courage--like love, courage begets itself; show a little courage, and the next courageous act becomes easier.

Now, go out and fix the situation. No excuses about how much your parents will be disappointed. No excuses about how you'll be clumsy at love.

Go out and make mistakes. Fail at love. Fail again. And again. Then get your heart broken. Then find, to your surprise, that someone thinks you're OK. Fuck up. Ask forgiveness. Forgive other men you love for their own foibles and weaknesses. And maybe, just maybe, find Mr Right. You've earned him.

Rugbypup just know that you're not alone in this kind of situation. I'm dealing with the same things you're dealing with except I'm straight, I'm much younger than you, and I live in one of the biggest cities in the world. That being said I grew up in an abusive home an my parents are out of touch with their emotions (my dad tries). I am now out of my mother's house and trying to move forward with my life. I can't be what my mother wants me to be so I don't try anymore. I just have general difficulties with people and showing emotion and love. I feel generally unlovable sometimes and that people can't accept me for who I am and are constantly trying to fix me. I'm bipolar and possibly have Asperger's syndrome. I kinda live sometimes in shame of myself and I feel hopeless at times. It's not my fault but its my job in my adult life to fix it. I have a wonderful friend. She may not be able to give what I need emotionally but still she's very important to me because she views me as just another normal person. She really doesn't know how much that truly means to me. I honestly play the victim card a lot but that's pretty much because I don't get much real life attention. I'm not in love with her but I love her and at least as a friend I have been and will continue to give her my all. I care. She cares.

Rugbypup you're looking for an emotional connection not necessarily love or sex. You need someone to connect with you who understands you... who you are and how you feel. You need to heeal. We all do. I'm really young to be starting the healing process myself. But I'm trying my best. A good counselor would really help. I said earlier my counselor is like the mother I never really had. It would really do you a lot of good.