Dilma rousseff impeached...but not zuma?

jaap_stam

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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/world/americas/dilma-rousseff-brazil-impeachment.html

Clearly, corruption (business as usual) is fine as long as you allow the 1% of your country to wet their beaks. But economic shitshow, and letting foreigners take all the profits from the World Cup and Olympics was clearly too much. I do wonder whether she would have been impeached if she was a man.

See Mr. Jacob Zuma, whose personal crimes are arguably much worse than Rousseff's and have had a worse economic impact than in Brazil
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35966916
 
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Perados

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Well, the difference is Brazil is not South Africa. That's why it's hard to say what would have happened if she were a man.
South Africa gets ruled by just one party since the end of apartheid. - But as it looks like a strong opposition is on the rise in SA, let's hope they aren't as corrupt as some rumours let suggest

I think we should be happy that it looks like justice and democracy work (more or less) in Brazil.
 

umdoistressilvaquatro

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I think Lula appointment as minister to escape investigation enraged people... If that had not happened, I think Dilma would probably still be in power.
And it's not like she didn't allow the 1% to wet their beaks. During her presidency BNDES borrowed almost half a trillion Reais to make handouts for the rich
 
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jaap_stam

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I think Lula appointment as minister to escape investigation enraged people... If that had not happened, I think Dilma would probably still be in power.
And it's not like she didn't allow the 1% to wet their beaks. During her presidency BNDES borrowed almost half a trillion Reais to make handouts for the rich

But weren't those bailouts a response to rising complaints by 1% over constant decline of real and massive inflation resulting in a 7% increase in interest rates within 3 years?

Maybe 1% had lost confidence in her ability to get results, and Lula scandal was just an opportunity to get rid of her?
 

umdoistressilvaquatro

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But weren't those bailouts a response to rising complaints by 1% over constant decline of real and massive inflation resulting in a 7% increase in interest rates within 3 years?
Maybe 1% had lost confidence in her ability to get results, and Lula scandal was just an opportunity to get rid of her?
The corruption scandals definitely served as an opportunity for resolution of conflicting interests inside the ultra-rich class, but this year's scandals were simply unparallelled. From where else in the world have you heard of a president nominating someone a minister just so he can escape police investigation?
The succeeding government seems to be no better, but the impeachment was still a step in the right direction. There needs to be a message for our rulers that corruption scandals have consequences.
 
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umdoistressilvaquatro

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Lol - you should visit Malaysia if you think the Roussef-Lula thing was bad
I'm not familiar with Malaysia politics, but for us, brazilians, this year's scandals where unprecedented and few people could say they were interested in tolerating Dilma to the end of her term.
 

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I'm not familiar with Malaysia politics, but for us, brazilians, this year's scandals where unprecedented and few people could say they were interested in tolerating Dilma to the end of her term.

In Malaysia there is open nepotism, sale of govt positions, and embezzlement of billions of USD of public funds. And no threat of impeachment. Not sure what Dilma did was unprecedented - Brazil has had a 2 decades long military dictatorship by coup, and obviously Lula's actions as president merit criminal investigation.

Hence my suspicion that - for the "kingmakers" in Brazil, her real problem was poor economy stewardship. The Lula issue was simply the opportunity to justify removing her.
 

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Dilma appointed Lula as chief of staff just so he could get legal status as minister and have legal immunity (he was highly suspected of corruption). That never happened in brazilian history.

That's still hardly the most corrupt thing to have happened in Brazilian political history.
 

umdoistressilvaquatro

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That's still hardly the most corrupt thing to have happened in Brazilian political history.
It's the most obvious and incontestable abuse of power from a brazilian president since the redemocratization. Comparations with another country or past periods is an outsider bias. What most brazilian citizen thought, concluding correctly throught their experiences here and now, is "how could anyone defend her after that?"
 

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If the american president issued an executive order decreeing that gays in the army, when caught, should be punished with one year without payment and got impeached for it, would anyone here raise objections over that consequence? One could say it's hardly the most homophobic thing in american history or because gay people's situation is worst in Iran or whatever...
I just don't get the point of this post.
 

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If the american president issued an executive order decreeing that gays in the army, when caught, should be punished with one year without payment and got impeached for it, would anyone here raise objections over that consequence? One could say it's hardly the most homophobic thing in american history or because gay people's situation is worst in Iran or whatever...
I just don't get the point of this post.

That's not an analogous situation, nor is it a realistic one. It is, however, quite normal for people to provide political protection to allies through pardoning or appointment to public office. You call it outsider bias, but having a good global and historic perspective is also important for tempering unreasonable overreactions.

The impact to the average Brazilian of the Lula deal is fairly minimal. However, other pieces of corruption have tremendously harmful impacts - such as World Cup stadium contractors deliberately slowing the pace of construction to be able to get emergency no-bid contracts to finish construction on time, essentially diverting money from public infrastructure projects for private (and foreign) profits.

The difference here is at a minimum, this is a case of corruption caught on tape and identifiable to a specific single person. Maybe also that she is a woman. I bring up the case of Zuma because he openly embezzled public money to make upgrades on his house, and his political patron - a foreign family - was openly buying ministers. Similar levels of corruption, but Zuma avoided even an impeachment vote.
 

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It's the most obvious and incontestable abuse of power from a brazilian president since the redemocratization. Comparations with another country or past periods is an outsider bias. What most brazilian citizen thought, concluding correctly throught their experiences here and now, is "how could anyone defend her after that?"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...seff-plot-secret-phone-transcript-impeachment

Looks like the Lula scandal wasn't even the worse issue of this year, much less post-junta Brazilian history.