Do black guys do it for you?

[takethecurve]

Lot of fetishizing happening.

I never understood the idea that you could just shrug off entire swaths of men based off skin color. I literally don't personally know anyone who thinks Idris Elba isn't just the sexiest of men. I can't imagine saying something like "there isn't a single black person on this planet that I would ever find attractive" because that seems like more of a psychological or societally ingrained hangup than an actual "preference".

The gay community can be so segregated and elitist. For a community of people constantly at the whim of societal fear and oppression, they love to be the oppressors and exclusionists in their own right.

However, it's also not surprising as, in America and much of Europe, it is very easy for white people to self-segregate without even consciously doing it. The number of White friends I have who have ZERO close friends of color or people of color living in their neighborhood or working in their offices, etc is disturbing.

To answer the posed question, men are beautiful. I've dated and slept with men of all races and backgrounds. I tend to date men of color, probably because I was raised in and have usually lived in communities that are not predominately white so I've been exposed to a greater range of diversity. My current long term partner is black.

 

[nudeguy1958]

I used to think only lighter skinned black men were attractive. It's become more of the personality that attracts me. My husband and I met a dark skinned black man last week, he is so sweet. We enjoyed his company so much we are planning a trip to see him again. He may come and visit us.

 

[StormyB]

Yes

 

[malakos]

Lot of fetishizing happening.

I never understood the idea that you could just shrug off entire swaths of men based off skin color.

???

That was an abrupt transition. I don't understand why you started with a brief remark on racial fetishization if the rest of your post was to be about racial exclusion.

I literally don't personally know anyone who thinks Idris Elba isn't just the sexiest of men.

Well, you don't personally know me of course, but now at least you can remark on one person on the internet (I'm sure I'm not alone):

He is, aesthetically speaking, a fairly good looking man. But I don't find him sexually appealing in the slightest.

I can't imagine saying something like "there isn't a single black person on this planet that I would ever find attractive" because that seems like more of a psychological or societally ingrained hangup than an actual "preference".

I think most people who would say that are being either hyperbolic or myopic. Having become somewhat a "never say never" kind of guy, I would not make such an extreme statement. But I can remark on what has been my experience. And I have not once found a man predominantly of sub-Saharan African ancestry to be sexually attractive. The closest examples have been Mixed men with some apparent West Eurasian traits (green eyes, or olive skin, for example).

The gay community can be so segregated and elitist. For a community of people constantly at the whim of societal fear and oppression, they love to be the oppressors and exclusionists in their own right.

Dating preferences in themselves are not oppression. No one has a right to be considered for dating by anyone else.

However, it's also not surprising as, in America and much of Europe, it is very easy for white people to self-segregate without even consciously doing it. The number of White friends I have who have ZERO close friends of color or people of color living in their neighborhood or working in their offices, etc is disturbing.

Why? There are plenty of corners of the world that are in some respect or another "lacking in diversity". Why does relative homogeneity bother you? Or is it actually only where it occurs in European societies that it bothers you?

 

[Bubblebootyboy]

omg yes they're my favorite

 

[takethecurve]

@malakos

The first line was in response to the large number of posts on here fetishizing black men, the rest of the post addressed those who simply say "I don't find black men attractive". Fetishizing is as destructive as simply saying "no people of color" because it again limits a human being down to some physical attribute or stereotype (usually big cock, or musculature or whatever) and is usually not about anything in a person's mind or personality.

As far as the other aspects, I'm of the standpoint that attraction and what we find attractive is a societal construct. How we are raised, the environment where we are raised, and the people who influence us have vastly more to do with what we find attractive than any biology, because biologically speaking, humans are human.

If attraction is learned behavior, it inherently is going to come with problems attached. The vast majority of American and European media upholds white standards of beauty--fair skin, straight hair, etc. The average fitness magazine has a white man on the cover. The average movie has a white hero, etc. Therefore, culturally, those things that are further towards the white scale are found to be preferable or more appealing to much of society. Why many can say "I find mixed race people attractive, but not dark skinned people".

A dating preference in itself is not oppression, if that dating preference is based on personality traits and choices. People don't date smokers, prefer to date people with similar interests and lifestyles, etc. Denying the possibility of dating someone simply because of race is a symptom of systemic oppression. The ability to boil a person down to the color of their skin and say "that's not for me" makes no sense psychologically. Attraction and lasting relationships are built on personality and human attributes. Just because someone finds a blonde attractive, doesn't mean they can't date and be happy with a brunette, or someone with different colored eyes, etc. It just seems incredibly shallow and vapid to base dating practice and preference on physical characteristics.

I have grown to be attracted to people I was not initially attracted to based off their personality.

And I'm not just concerned about homogenous environments in Eurocentric spaces. I firmly believe diversity is one of the greatest ways to happy, healthy, peaceful communities, and homogeneous neighborhoods, cities, or countries often lead to racism, xenophobia, classism, etc. I lived in Japan for a year and was bothered by the level of xenophobia (and the other side of the coin, fetishizing) that occurred while I was there.

 

[takethecurve]

‘No Blacks’ Is Not a Sexual Preference. It’s Racism

 

[englad]

However, it's also not surprising as, in America and much of Europe, it is very easy for white people to self-segregate without even consciously doing it. The number of White friends I have who have ZERO close friends of color or people of color living in their neighborhood or working in their offices, etc is disturbing.

I've never met a white person in Europe that could tick all the boxes (and very few that could even tick most) in the bolded description. Even in comparably homogeneous areas, even living in rural Austria. There is plenty of racism in Europe. However when it comes to racial segregation, virtually nowhere in Europe could hold a candle to either the American south or mid-west. When you go to a site like douchebagsofgrindr, which in particular details examples of sexual racism, the vast majority of profiles are from two countries, the USA and Australia.

 

[malakos]

Fetishizing is as destructive as simply saying "no people of color"

Have you actually seen that phrase, "no people of color", used in that sense? I have not.

because it again limits a human being down to some physical attribute or stereotype (usually big cock, or musculature or whatever) and is usually not about anything in a person's mind or personality.

You can't condemn an attitude and all its versions absolutely on the basis of what it is usually about. If someone says they are into men of African descent because they have big penises, that's ridiculous. If someone says they like lighter colored eyes (blue, green, hazel) and as such are pretty much never attracted to people predominantly of African or East Asian ancestry because they very rarely have light eyes, that's a sound expression of preference in relation to reality.

As far as the other aspects, I'm of the standpoint that attraction and what we find attractive is a societal construct.

That's still not clearly determined, much like many other aspects of sexual attraction (including the causal factors of the determination of homosexual orientation). And even if your hunch happened to be correct, that wouldn't necessarily mean that there could be any hope of changing these preferences, such that you could expect someone to try. And even if it were mutable by effort, you'd still have to explain why someone should bother.

Personally, if I knew that I could change my preference for guys with light eyes, I still don't see why I would bother. I have better things to be investing my time and energy on.

because biologically speaking, humans are human.

Biologically speaking all individuals are different. The reality of the matter is actually radical diversity, not the delusions of biological egalitarianism.

The average fitness magazine has a white man on the cover. The average movie has a white hero, etc.

The average American is Caucasian.

Why many can say "I find mixed race people attractive, but not dark skinned people".

I find few racially mixed men sexually attractive (as I pointed out before, this is different from what I admire aesthetically) because only some have inherited the typically European features that I draw me in sexually. Skin color is not even in the top 5 of those traits.

A dating preference in itself is not oppression, if that dating preference is based on personality traits and choices. People don't date smokers, prefer to date people with similar interests and lifestyles, etc. Denying the possibility of dating someone simply because of race is a symptom of systemic oppression.

No, it's just not oppression. Full stop. Oppression by any reasonable and useful definition must involve the infringement of rights. I repeat:

No one (no, not anyone) has the right to be considered for dating by anyone else, ever.

Your references to systemic racism don't establish anything relevant if you cannot show how in that matter there is an infringement of rights involved.

The ability to boil a person down to the color of their skin and say "that's not for me" makes no sense psychologically.

Having an exclusionary approach to skin color is not different from having one to penis size (size queens) or genital type (homosexual vs heterosexual) or apparent age (people who sexually prefer older partners) or body type (skinny vs muscular vs plump etc).

Attraction and lasting relationships are built on personality and human attributes.

Sheer sexual attraction doesn't have anything to do with personality for a whole lot of people, likely the majority as far as I can tell.

Just because someone finds a blonde attractive, doesn't mean they can't date and be happy with a brunette, or someone with different colored eyes, etc.

Actually yeah, some people are so disproportionately attracted to blondes far beyond other types that it wouldn't make sense for them to bother dating anyone else.

It just seems incredibly shallow and vapid to base dating practice and preference on physical characteristics.

You're effectively invalidating homosexuality with this sort of rhetoric. After all, "biologically speaking, humans are human."

I have grown to be attracted to people I was not initially attracted to based off their personality.

Ditto. But in case you hadn't noticed, most of this thread is taken from the angle of hooking up, and the language of the OP does lean that way.

And I'm not just concerned about homogenous environments in Eurocentric spaces. I firmly believe diversity is one of the greatest ways to happy, healthy, peaceful communities, and homogeneous neighborhoods, cities, or countries often lead to racism, xenophobia, classism, etc. I lived in Japan for a year and was bothered by the level of xenophobia (and the other side of the coin, fetishizing) that occurred while I was there.

I really doubt that. As far as I can tell, world happiness indices tend to be top heavy with the most homogeneous of countries.

 

[Infernal]

‘No Blacks’ Is Not a Sexual Preference. It’s Racism

I think it depends on how it is stated and the motivation of the person behind it. I know people who don't enjoy sex with black men and it has to do with things like skin and hair texture. There is always the exception and when it comes along they will ride that dick like there is no tomorrow. It can just be a preference and not racially motivated.

 

[takethecurve]

I absolutely have seen profiles that say "no blacks" or "no Asians" or "only into white dudes", and if you haven't seen it you're blind. There are whole websites dedicated to these types of profiles.

 

[englad]

Have you actually seen that phrase, "no people of color", used in that sense? I have not.

Stop being obtuse, malakos.

racism - Douchebags of Grindr

 

[wsnki07]

I absolutely have seen profiles that say "no blacks" or "no Asians" or "only into white dudes", and if you haven't seen it you're blind. There are whole websites dedicated to these types of profiles.

He's not blind. He's just playing devil's advocate.

 

[951321]

I think it depends on how it is stated

Agreed. I just think people need to be more thoughtful on how they word their ethnic preferences or at least not advertise it at all but just decline any messages they get from people of said ethnic group. It’s not like X ethnic group is getting 1000 messages from Y ethnic group every day...

Like I said before, I don’t see any problem in people not being attracted to black men but how you vocalise this is where the line between a preference and racism often gets crossed.

@takethecurve I also noticed the same regarding fetishising in most replies here + from my experiences of gay apps.

As a black guy in Europe (brought up in UK and living in Germany for almost a year now), I’ve never felt like I’ve received attention based off genuine interest when being contacted by someone of another ethnic group (mostly Caucasian men). I’d even go as far as saying 99.9% of contact has been based on either a fetish or from stereotypes or even just to tick a box to say they’ve slept with a black guy...

 

[Infernal]

I think there needs to be more though put into how people respond to someone saying they aren't interested in X or Y groups. A few years ago I spend a few hours having a good time with someone. He asked me if my husband was into black guys and I responded that he wasn't. This guy came unhinged on me. He jumped up and started getting dressed, all the while screaming that my husband was a racist and how could I be with someone like that. Then he stormed out the door. People like what they like and it isn't my place to justify what someone else doesn't enjoy. This guy would find me online and berate me over it. One day he asked if my husband was at work so we could hook up again. I told him I wasn't interested. Then I took the time to explain to him that it had nothing to do with his skin color, everything to do with his behavior and reaction over someone he wouldn't ever meet.

 

[malakos]

I think there needs to be more though put into how people respond to someone saying they aren't interested in X or Y groups. A few years ago I spend a few hours having a good time with someone. He asked me if my husband was into black guys and I responded that he wasn't. This guy came unhinged on me. He jumped up and started getting dressed, all the while screaming that my husband was a racist and how could I be with someone like that. Then he stormed out the door. People like what they like and it isn't my place to justify what someone else doesn't enjoy. This guy would find me online and berate me over it. One day he asked if my husband was at work so we could hook up again. I told him I wasn't interested. Then I took the time to explain to him that it had nothing to do with his skin color, everything to do with his behavior and reaction over someone he wouldn't ever meet.

Unhinged indeed. Sounds like that guy could really use some therapy.

 

[malakos]

I absolutely have seen profiles that say "no blacks" or "no Asians" or "only into white dudes", and if you haven't seen it you're blind. There are whole websites dedicated to these types of profiles.

You're not answering what I asked, and I intentionally italicized the word "phrase" to try to emphasize that the exact phrasing you chose seemed significant to me.

Stop being obtuse, malakos.

racism - Douchebags of Grindr

Not obtuse, it's a simple yes/no question, and there is a reason for my asking it. That site never exhibits any examples that are equivalent to what I am wondering about.

"People of color" is a recent construct that refers to a huge swath of the vast majority of humanity (probably 80-90% of it). This group includes all sorts of peoples, which, even comparing the mean traits of their respective ethnicities, don't share any qualities beyond the most basic human ones. Certainly skin color isn't a trait that is shared in common in that grouping; in North Asia one can find many people who are just as fair skinned as Northern Europeans tend to be. Personally I think the phrase doesn't mean very much and is largely just a rhetorical device for identity politics, but that's another kettle of fish.

The examples that takethecurve mentioned are preferences I have seen stated a number of times. However, none of them satisfy the question I asked about "no people of color". That phrase is a very broad umbrella category. "No blacks", "no Asians", "only Whites" all express preferences about specific racial groupings. Saying "no people of color" just wouldn't make any sense because the various peoples lumped into this category are so diverse that the group don't really share any particular traits traits (even on a soft generalization level) other than basic human ones. The only reason such a thought might cross someone's mind would be because they have a preference for those who are "not" "people of color", namely "White" people. Just stating the preference itself makes a lot more natural and fluid sense, hence why we see "only Whites" fairly often, but there is seemingly no evidence of "no people of color".

And we see "no blacks" and "no Asians" but not "no people of color" because the latter is actually not equivalent in meaning to the former two. Again, the latter doesn't really refer to any preference, it would just be a bizarre way of expressing preference for "Whites". However, actual preferences can take either a positive or negative form: there are some traits that one finds appealing and contribute to sexual attraction, and there are others that detract from sexual attraction (there are also often traits that one has little response to one way or the other, but then they can't be spoken of as preferences). For example, one could find wide, open eyes attractive, but slanted eyes with the epicanthic fold unattractive.

Because of this, expressing general positive or negative preferences about specific groups makes sense, where "no people of color" would not. Members specific ethnic/racial groups, as a generality not an absolute, often exhibit specific traits due to their common genetic stock. East Asians very often exhibit notable inheritance of the epicanthic fold, and if one finds that trait particularly unattractive, then it would make sense one would rarely if ever find members of that group attractive.

 

[1178303]

‘No Blacks’ Is Not a Sexual Preference. It’s Racism

Absolutely. It is racism.

 

[1178303]

Because of this, expressing general positive or negative preferences about specific groups makes sense, where "no people of color" would not. Members specific ethnic/racial groups, as a generality not an absolute, often exhibit specific traits due to their common genetic stock. East Asians very often exhibit notable inheritance of the epicanthic fold, and if one finds that trait particularly unattractive, then it would make sense one would rarely if ever find members of that group attractive.

So, it’s ok to exclude a whole race on that basis? Do you find almost all white guys attractive?

 

[malakos]

So, it’s ok to exclude a whole race on that basis?

One doesn't even need any basis to exclude any group one wishes. Individuals have a right to exclude from dating whomever they wish to exclude.