Do gay men ever have straight experiences after they come out as gay?

englad

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Thanks for the response.

I think that the sexual identity labels make the most sense when they are linked to enduring and persistent attraction patterns, and interpretation of those obviously varies.

Agreed. In a previous convo I did concede that most people oft seem to label based on more persistent attractions vs intermittent ones. And that's perfectly reasonable.

I've also met people who are the opposite and will gladly identify as bi even with the tiniest slice of either attraction. Its case by case for sure.

Someone who is persistently attracted to women, but has a hefty preference for men, is a different story. So I can see bisexual erasure in the latter.

I find this part interesting. Can you go into a bit more detail? I think I know where you're going with it but I'm not entirely sure. And also how do you square that with your general outlook?

telling people how to identify is insulting, it's none of their business. The other issues are that it reeks of gold star ideology, "my sexuality is purer than yours, so you have to rid yourself of my label". This seems biphobic to me.

Agreed on the first part. It's no one's place to tell someone how to identify. The troll in here doing that is quite obnoxious as well. Lol

The gold star thing never occurred to me before. I guess that might be some people's thinking. Odd gatekeeping if so.

It also feels very reminiscent of the behaviour of insecure straight men.

Can you elaborate a bit more on this?

Agreed on the last part as well. Trans men are men. And some people can overlook genitalia (or maybe even embrace it?)
Absolutely, interpretations vary a lot.

I find this part interesting. Can you go into a bit more detail? I think I know where you're going with it but I'm not entirely sure. And also how do you square that with your general outlook?


Well, I think if someone generally finds women to be sexually attractive over a consistent period of time and it isn't purely circumstantial or situational, but still doesn't want to call themselves "bi", then it can be bisexual erasure. However, of course, reaching for the "queer" label instead, would not be erasure, because it doesn't deny either gayness or bi-ness, it merely emphasises non-heterosexuality. I also think it is possible to be attracted to a particular person of a group you're not normally attracted to, and not generally. If it is circumstantial, situational or intermittent attraction, I can see how someone would stick with the gay label. And frankly, someone having a slightly different sexual history or a different interpretation to me who calls himself gay doesn't damage my own self-perception.

I would also divide attraction into three main types:

Sexual
Mental
Emotional

You can feel one or any of the three, or a combination of all three.

Can you elaborate a bit more on this?

Agreed on the last part as well. Trans men are men. And some people can overlook genitalia (or maybe even embrace it?)

Certainly, insecure straight men will often battle to push out anyone who vaguely deviates from strict adherence to the label or anyone who seemingly taints the label with any element of queerness. They see as a threat to their own self-image (just like the troll in the thread, but in reverse). Anyone who has ever been curious about another man can't be straight, anyone who's dabbled in sex with other men can't be straight, anyone who likes trans women can't be straight etc. Some take it to such an extreme level that certain forms of sex with a woman, or certain ways of enjoying their own bodies are grounds to taint the label. Someone who is secure about their sexuality isn't bothered by someone having a slightly different interpretation. There's a world of difference between "gay men don't like" and "I don't like".

I think you get both people who overlook and embrace the genitalia. For me, I think it's more the former, but I certainly could work with them if the man is sexy in other ways. Also, it's worth remembering that testosterone physically alters them and the clitoris starts to resemble a small penis (which is not surprising because it's analogous to the glans) and that can be hot, and if he wants to make use of the bonus hole, well, it was built for the job, so I'm down. Another factor for me, is some cis men don't like you interacting with their penises anyway, and I'd rather one isn't there than off limits lol. I would also say that boiling down male desirability to solely the sexual organ demeans masculine beauty. I love dicks and they're great fun to interact with, but they're not the only thing I like.
 
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Well, I think if someone generally finds women to be sexually attractive over a consistent period of time and it isn't purely circumstantial or situational, but still doesn't want to call themselves "bi", then it can be bisexual erasure. However, of course, reaching for the "queer" label instead, would not be erasure, because it doesn't deny either gayness or bi-ness, it merely emphasises non-heterosexuality.
Agreed.

Certainly, insecure straight men will often battle to push out anyone who vaguely deviates from strict adherence to the label or anyone who seemingly taints the label with any element of queerness. They see as a threat to their own self-image (just like the troll in the thread, but in reverse). Anyone who has ever been curious about another man can't be straight, anyone who's dabbled in sex with other men can't be straight, anyone who likes trans women can't be straight etc. Some take it to such an extreme level that certain forms of sex with a woman, or certain ways of enjoying their own bodies are grounds to taint the label.
Okay I get what you mean. Just to add on though (and speaking for personal experience) I've encountered just as many cis str8 girls that have a similar take. Some girls I've hooked up with were fine with me being bi, but others seemed genuinely disgusted. Lol. And even from casual conversation, there are more girls out there than you might think who want nothing to do with guys who have been with other men. They feel weirdly threatened.

I think you get both people who overlook and embrace the genitalia. For me, I think it's more the former, but I certainly could work with them if the man is sexy in other ways. Also, it's worth remembering that testosterone physically alters them and the clitoris starts to resemble a small penis (which is not surprising because it's analogous to the glans) and that can be hot, and if he wants to make use of the bonus hole, well, it was built for the job, so I'm down. Another factor for me, is some cis men don't like you interacting with their penises anyway, and I'd rather one isn't there than off limits lol. I would also say that boiling down male desirability to solely the sexual organ demeans masculine beauty. I love dicks and they're great fun to interact with, but they're not the only thing I like.

Thanks for the little lesson re trans men. Good to know. Also totally get your logic in terms of off limits and all that.

I have never been with a trans person yet but I'm obviously not opposed to either variation. And genitalia is no issue for me either so I'm good. Lol.
 
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Is this a trend? This "curiosity" thing? If you're gay why even worry about it? The "Lately, I've been curious" is just so odd to me. Women have always been around so why is it "lately, I'm curious but I'm gay." Is it a gay to bi conversion thing?
It's trendy in the porn world at the moment, so a lot of gay guys are being influenced by it. FTM is sexualizing the idea of pussy (a gateway drug of sorts) and performers like Chris Damned and Francois Sagat are calling themselves gay while having straight sex constantly.
 
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It's trendy in the porn world at the moment, so a lot of gay guys are being influenced by it. FTM is sexualizing the idea of pussy (a gateway drug of sorts) and performers like Chris Damned and Francois Sagat are calling themselves gay while having straight sex constantly.
you do realize what you identify as a sexual orientation does not determine who you bone lol. stop trying to make bs laws on Sexuality. If you identify as gay and you bone 1 million chicks it does not make you straight just like if a straight guy has sex with a man does not make him gay. yall really need to realize sexuality is a fluid construct that sex can really mean just sex.
 
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Justin_James

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you do realize what you identify as a sexual orientation does not determine who you bone lol. stop trying to make bs laws on Sexuality. If you identify as gay and you bone 1 million chicks it does not make you straight just like if a straight guy has sex with a man does not make him gay. yall really need to realize sexuality is a fluid construct that sex can really mean just sex.
No, if females make you horny and you enjoy sex with them, you're by definition not gay. It's simple logic. If your 'label' is logically inconsistent with your attractions, it's a false label.

Logic dictates your orientation, not you.
 

HornyPalmettoGamecock

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No, if females make you horny and you enjoy sex with them, you're by definition not gay. It's simple logic. If your 'label' is logically inconsistent with your attractions, it's a false label.

Logic dictates your orientation, not you.
Dude, if you want to believe that and stay ignorant by all means, google it kid and stop sounding hateful. if we are going by your "logic" then if you were born a boy or girl then you will always be a boy or girl no matter if you get a sex change or not. Do you see how dumb you sound??? Research and learn something new.
 

Justin_James

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Dude, if you want to believe that and stay ignorant by all means, google it kid and stop sounding hateful. if we are going by your "logic" then if you were born a boy or girl then you will always be a boy or girl no matter if you get a sex change or not. Do you see how dumb you sound??? Research and learn something new.
You disagree that logic dictates your sexuality? That's alarming.
 

Fishsqueezee69

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Science disagrees that logic dictates sexual orientation?

Logic does not dictate sexual orientation. I am not sure where you are going with that. Sexual orientation often defies logic.

I define my sexual orientation by which gender I am attracted to.

Look at it this way, if I close my eyes and get a blow job by a girl or a guy, could you tell the difference? The fact that I would enjoy a woman giving me a BJ does not make me straight.

With my specific case, it may be more complicated but the point I want to make still holds. Imagine back in the day when gay men got married and had kids because they couldn't come out. Those guys have often said sex with woman was OK. They enjoyed it just enough.

What makes me identify as gay is that I don't see myself dating or marrying a woman. I have no interest in living with a woman or having an emotional relationship with one. I am exclusively attracted to men. Sex with a woman would just be sex. Yes, I enjoy occasionally (like once in a blue moon) watching a woman finger herself or something like that lol but I would never prefer that over a guy.

It may be difficult to understand for you because maybe you don't have any kinks like that. We are all a little different.

I think you can be in the middle of the Kinsey scale but still self identify as gay. Key here is self identity. You need to realize and respect ppls identity.