Absolutely, interpretations vary a lot.Thanks for the response.
I think that the sexual identity labels make the most sense when they are linked to enduring and persistent attraction patterns, and interpretation of those obviously varies.
Agreed. In a previous convo I did concede that most people oft seem to label based on more persistent attractions vs intermittent ones. And that's perfectly reasonable.
I've also met people who are the opposite and will gladly identify as bi even with the tiniest slice of either attraction. Its case by case for sure.
Someone who is persistently attracted to women, but has a hefty preference for men, is a different story. So I can see bisexual erasure in the latter.
I find this part interesting. Can you go into a bit more detail? I think I know where you're going with it but I'm not entirely sure. And also how do you square that with your general outlook?
telling people how to identify is insulting, it's none of their business. The other issues are that it reeks of gold star ideology, "my sexuality is purer than yours, so you have to rid yourself of my label". This seems biphobic to me.
Agreed on the first part. It's no one's place to tell someone how to identify. The troll in here doing that is quite obnoxious as well. Lol
The gold star thing never occurred to me before. I guess that might be some people's thinking. Odd gatekeeping if so.
It also feels very reminiscent of the behaviour of insecure straight men.
Can you elaborate a bit more on this?
Agreed on the last part as well. Trans men are men. And some people can overlook genitalia (or maybe even embrace it?)
I find this part interesting. Can you go into a bit more detail? I think I know where you're going with it but I'm not entirely sure. And also how do you square that with your general outlook?
Well, I think if someone generally finds women to be sexually attractive over a consistent period of time and it isn't purely circumstantial or situational, but still doesn't want to call themselves "bi", then it can be bisexual erasure. However, of course, reaching for the "queer" label instead, would not be erasure, because it doesn't deny either gayness or bi-ness, it merely emphasises non-heterosexuality. I also think it is possible to be attracted to a particular person of a group you're not normally attracted to, and not generally. If it is circumstantial, situational or intermittent attraction, I can see how someone would stick with the gay label. And frankly, someone having a slightly different sexual history or a different interpretation to me who calls himself gay doesn't damage my own self-perception.
I would also divide attraction into three main types:
Sexual
Mental
Emotional
You can feel one or any of the three, or a combination of all three.
Can you elaborate a bit more on this?
Agreed on the last part as well. Trans men are men. And some people can overlook genitalia (or maybe even embrace it?)
Certainly, insecure straight men will often battle to push out anyone who vaguely deviates from strict adherence to the label or anyone who seemingly taints the label with any element of queerness. They see as a threat to their own self-image (just like the troll in the thread, but in reverse). Anyone who has ever been curious about another man can't be straight, anyone who's dabbled in sex with other men can't be straight, anyone who likes trans women can't be straight etc. Some take it to such an extreme level that certain forms of sex with a woman, or certain ways of enjoying their own bodies are grounds to taint the label. Someone who is secure about their sexuality isn't bothered by someone having a slightly different interpretation. There's a world of difference between "gay men don't like" and "I don't like".
I think you get both people who overlook and embrace the genitalia. For me, I think it's more the former, but I certainly could work with them if the man is sexy in other ways. Also, it's worth remembering that testosterone physically alters them and the clitoris starts to resemble a small penis (which is not surprising because it's analogous to the glans) and that can be hot, and if he wants to make use of the bonus hole, well, it was built for the job, so I'm down. Another factor for me, is some cis men don't like you interacting with their penises anyway, and I'd rather one isn't there than off limits lol. I would also say that boiling down male desirability to solely the sexual organ demeans masculine beauty. I love dicks and they're great fun to interact with, but they're not the only thing I like.