Do gay men ever have straight experiences after they come out as gay?

[AfterHours69]

So you those people that believe that all labels are evil including gay and lesbian because it excludes the opposite sex from our sexual organs And I bet you Support straight people calling themselves queer but have not been in a same-sex relationship

Honestly – I don’t care. What does it have to do with me? Let them be who they want to be. Are you saying you can’t think about your sexuality until you’ve had sex? Wouldn’t that make every virgin a blank slate?

 

[AfterHours69]

You said it in your own reply to me whatever labels are unnecessary you believe that the world will be perfect if people didn’t have labels on them selves you said this out of your own mouth

Yes-I think they are unnecessary, but if you feel comfortable labeling yourself, that’s your business. I’m not going to call someone “stupid” for labeling themselves or for choosing not to be labeled, even if I prefer not to be labeled. Do you understand?

 

[bigboaster]

Did we read the same post? That’s quite a reaction there.

I was thinking the same, quite a harsh reaction hahaha. I tried my best to be accommodating and I genuinely welcome disagreement and correction. Preferably... civilly though. lol

 

[headbang8]

At the same time I do feel a slight sense is bi erasure from a lot of this conversation? Not explicitly nor am I accusing anyone but it's just my own perception and anyone can feel free to correct me. I sometimes think why aren't some people willing to accept that label? What's preventing them?

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I'm curious about what you think specifically erases bi individuals in this thread? That's not a challenge to you, but a genuine question.

I guess I'd technically be considered a bisexual since I'm not ruling out the possibility of having sex with a woman, and probably wouldn't find it distatsteful or unpleasant. But that's hardly a resounding hurrah for my bisexuality, is it?

I think for some people the social/personal/emotional aspect of one identity outweighs the hard-line more concrete sexuality aspect. Which I think is fair enough.

Declining the label doesn't erase or stigmatize it, IMHO. It just means that I find another label suits me better. "Gay" fits me. I wear it well. Socially, personally, emotionally....and erotically, too.

As an aside. I Also I find the idea of someone thinking "labels don't matter" and "I will stick myself to this label I prefer regardless of my attractions" simultaneously to be incongruent.

Wouldn’t it just be easier to be "unlabeled" then?

Personally, I think thoughtful/respectful labels can make a positive difference. The label "gay" really helped me. It brought a great deal of comfort and self-awareness. To be "unlabeled" kinda sets me adrift from discovering others like myself, from whom I can seek understanding through our common experiences.

I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts.

 

[AfterHours69]

If you feel comfortable labeling yourself, I totally support it. If you don’t, I totally support it. I’ve lived enough life to know the labels are probably going to change in 10 yrs anyway!

why I don’t: If something comes along to challenge that label, I’m left going, “Well, I guess I’m this new label now.” If I’ve connected to people as that previous label, it brings up all sorts of questions of betrayal, lies, connection, etc. Instead, I’m just me and go with how I feel. I don’t need to fit in anyone else’s definition of how I need to behave.

That’s just how I feel. You’re free to define it for yourself IMO

 

[bigboaster]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I'm curious about what you think specifically erases bi individuals in this thread.

I guess I'd technically be considered a bisexual since I'm not ruling out the possibility of having sex with a woman, and probably wouldn't find it distatsteful or unpleasant. But that's hardly a resounding hurrah for my bisexuality, is it?


Declining the label doesn't erase or stigmatize it, IMHO. It just means that I find another label suits me better. "Gay" fits me. I wear it well. Socially, personally, emotionally....and erotically, too.

Personally, I think thoughtful/respectful labels can make a positive difference. The label "gay" really helped me. It brought a great deal of comfort and self-awareness. To be "unlabeled" kinda sets me adrift from discovering others like myself, from whom I can seek understanding through our common experiences.

I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts.

Thanks for the sincere and thoughtful reply bud.

"I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I'm curious about what you think specifically erases bi individuals in this thread."

I think erasing was probably too harsh a term (given the implication) but to add a bit more nuance. I guess I was thinking possibly because bisexuals often have a bad reputation among the lgbt community generally speaking. That maybe that plays a role in why certain gays feel more comfortable just identifying as gay? (even if they had some small attraction to women) But of course that is just my wild passing thought, certainly don't intend to accuse anyone.

"I guess I'd technically be considered a bisexual since I'm not ruling out the possibility of having sex with a woman, and probably wouldn't find it distatsteful or unpleasant. But that's hardly a resounding hurrah for my bisexuality, is it?"

That's absolutely reasonable. I think for some guys they seem to cling to their female attractions no matter how small lol. But I guess on the other side some guys (like yourself) probably don't think too much about it. I get your logic entirely.

"Declining the label doesn't erase or stigmatize it, IMHO. It just means that I find another label suits me better. "Gay" fits me. I wear it well. Socially, personally, emotionally....and erotically, too."

Yes that is what I do think that makes a lot of sense, sexuality is so much more than just that hard line attraction, but it's very much a social and personal thing. I think my knee jerk reaction to that feeling of erasure was just that... a bit knee jerk. But when you take the time to think about it. It isn't fair to guys like you to lay that burden at your feet just bc of an initial discomfort on my part.

"To be "unlabeled" kinda sets me adrift from discovering others like myself, from whom I can seek understanding through our common experiences."

This is a really profound point I never actually considered before. Thanks for that. There is a radical part of me that kind of yearns for more people to go "label-less" but from your pov, our existing labels actually serve quite a lot of utility in regards to community and comradery.

Sorry for the long ass reply but I appreciate you giving me some things to think about. That's exactly what I was seeking. Cheers

 

[AfterHours69]

Like, a lot of people who are bi I’m sure can identify with coming out as bi, then maybe having a couple of relationships with the same sex and have people say, “So you’re actually gay.” Or someone who identifies as straight has a same-sex encounter here and there and people are like, “So, you’re bi?”

That’s just too much for me to worry about. All it is doing (IMO) is making that other person feel more comfortable because they can feel like they know you without having to really know you. “You’re gay/straight/bi/trans, so that means…” Well, that’s what it means to you, not necessarily me.

 

[headbang8]

I think erasing was probably too harsh a term (given the implication) but to add a bit more nuance. I guess I was thinking possibly because bisexuals often have a bad reputation among the lgbt community generally speaking. That maybe that plays a role in why certain gays feel more comfortable just identifying as gay? (even if they had some small attraction to women) But of course that is just my wild passing thought, certainly don't intend to accuse anyone.

Warning: wild generalization here. It may be projection. A good many gay men (I was one) do make bisexuality a half-way point to actually coming out as gay. Some simply can't face the stigma of being capital-G Gay, at least not at first. The fully-out, comfortable-in-their-skin gays often decode it as internalised homophobia, even cowardice. And maybe they have a point—many gay pals made that point to me in my coming-out days, and they were 100% right. But it's unfair to bake all bisexual men into the same loaf.

Yes that is what I do think that makes a lot of sense, sexuality is so much more than just that hard line attraction, but it's very much a social and personal thing. I think my knee jerk reaction to that feeling of erasure was just that... a bit knee jerk. But when you take the time to think about it. It isn't fair to guys like you to lay that burden at your feet just bc of an initial discomfort on my part.

Not at all, BB. As I mentioned, I was once in those shoes. I certainly lived with my own knee jerk reactions. And still do, often.

Thanks for the sincere and thoughtful reply bud.

Sorry for the long ass reply but I appreciate you giving me some things to think about. That's exactly what I was seeking. Cheers

Pleasure. It's this kind of content that I find most valuable on this board.

Never mind I read it wrong I miss interpretative I didn’t read "I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you" on the first part my mistake you don’t really get it at all

 

[Teague]

That term homoflexible is so stupid just admit you are a bisexual person you’re doing is bI erasure and that’s offensive towards the bisexual community

Nope. I am not bisexual. I do not have romantic feelings for women. I romance men. I need male-influenced energy to be sexually aroused. FTM guys can do it. Cis men can do it. When I am aroused, I can sexually perform with women.

This isn't bi erasure -- I am not bi. I haven't told a bi guy that he's really gay. Or straight. That is bi erasure.

 

[Hotxhunk]

I've had several friend who identified as gay and then had sex with women at some point. Some of them ended up saying they were bi, and other just say it was something they wanted to try, but that it didn't change them. All of them said they had fun and it was pleasurable! But i think we can't be talking about straight guys doing gay shit and still calling them straight if we can't do the opposite for gay men.

 

[bigboaster]

I've had several friend who identified as gay and then had sex with women at some point. Some of them ended up saying they were bi, and other just say it was something they wanted to try, but that it didn't change them. All of them said they had fun and it was pleasurable! But i think we can't be talking about straight guys doing gay shit and still calling them straight if we can't do the opposite for gay men.

A bit confused by your last point. Did you mean to say we can't do the same for gay men?

 

[bigboaster]

Nope. I am not bisexual. I do not have romantic feelings for women. I romance men. I need male-influenced energy to be sexually aroused. FTM guys can do it. Cis men can do it. When I am aroused, I can sexually perform with women.

This isn't bi erasure -- I am not bi. I haven't told a bi guy that he's really gay. Or straight. That is bi erasure.

I don't disagree with you but I think your characterization in the 2nd line is somewhat inaccurate. You don't need "romantic" whatever to be bi.

There are such things as homo-romantic and hetero-romantic bi people. Who might only have romantic feelings for one gender but sexual feelings for both and vice versa. They are still bi. Not boxing you in based on that but just wanted to clarify for others.

 

[chpoof]

I've seen several threads like these on other forums, and they always end up becoming a heated battleground of debate.

My two cents, FWIW: One of the problems is that men, far more so than women, tend to label themselves as they want others to see them as opposed to what their activities or feelings genuinely reflect. For example, several years back there was a guy on another forum who constantly talked about women. Loved tits, pussy, and so forth, regularly hooked up with women for sex, and even said the true love of his life was a woman. Well, guess how he self-identified? Gay. And he would argue you to the ground if you dared to challenge this. Yes, he was attracted to guys, and yes, he had sex with guys, so he wasn't straight. But he flat refused the bi label, even though friends in his personal life considered him more bi than gay.

My husband and I have a close friend who came out as gay a few years ago after being married to a woman for over a decade. Yet even now he notices women he finds attractive and says, "I would have sex with her if I were still straight" or "I'd have sex with her in a pinch." Granted, he is still dealing with some major personal baggage in his life. Is he actually gay? Possibly. Is he more bi than gay? Likely. Regardless, he's our friend and we support him.

Another issue is that some men create their own definition of what terms mean to suit their own perspectives. For example, bisexuality must mean an equal attraction to both sexes. (This is false, of course.) Bisexuality must mean that you're open to a romantic relationship with either gender. (This is also false.) To be genuinely gay, you must never have had any kind of sexual experience with a woman. (This, too, is false.)

Just throwing this into to the mix. Sexuality is not always complicated, but it is complex.

 

[ToryK]

I've seen several threads like these on other forums, and they always end up becoming a heated battleground of debate.

My two cents, FWIW: One of the problems is that men, far more so than women, tend to label themselves as they want others to see them as opposed to what their activities or feelings genuinely reflect. For example, several years back there was a guy on another forum who constantly talked about women. Loved tits, pussy, and so forth, regularly hooked up with women for sex, and even said the true love of his life was a woman. Well, guess how he self-identified? Gay. And he would argue you to the ground if you dared to challenge this. Yes, he was attracted to guys, and yes, he had sex with guys, so he wasn't straight. But he flat refused the bi label, even though friends in his personal life considered him more bi than gay.

My husband and I have a close friend who came out as gay a few years ago after being married to a woman for over a decade. Yet even now he notices women he finds attractive and says, "I would have sex with her if I were still straight" or "I'd have sex with her in a pinch." Granted, he is still dealing with some major personal baggage in his life. Is he actually gay? Possibly. Is he more bi than gay? Likely. Regardless, he's our friend and we support him.

Another issue is that some men create their own definition of what terms mean to suit their own perspectives. For example, bisexuality must mean an equal attraction to both sexes. (This is false, of course.) Bisexuality must mean that you're open to a romantic relationship with either gender. (This is also false.) To be genuinely gay, you must never have had any kind of sexual experience with a woman. (This, too, is false.)

Just throwing this into to the mix. Sexuality is not always complicated, but it is complex.

Well said.

 

[chpoof]

Well said.

Thanks.

Interestingly enough, I never experienced any significant pressure to have sex with a woman until after I came out. You know, the "How do you know you're really gay if you've never been with a woman?" types of conversations.

 

[Munchy]

Thanks.

Interestingly enough, I never experienced any significant pressure to have sex with a woman until after I came out. You know, the "How do you know you're really gay if you've never been with a woman?" types of conversations.

Yes, I used to hear that statement all the time. Most gay men have been with women at some point, that's how they know they are gay..

 

[chpoof]

Yes, I used to hear that statement all the time. Most gay men have been with women at some point, that's how they know they are gay..

Believe me, anyone who could've witnessed the things I did to my husband in bed last night would never, ever question whether or not I'm really gay!

 

[englad]

As long you are honestly telling people you are bisexual it need not be a problem. A purely sexual encounter with a woman is BISEXUAL not gay.

Sexual acts are not gay or bisexual, people are gay or bisexual. These are social identity markers that people describe themselves as based on their own persistent and enduring attraction patterns.

It is really fucking insecure to try to tell other people how they should identify themselves. And frankly, it's none of your fucking business.

 

[ToryK]

Sexual acts are not gay or bisexual, people are gay or bisexual. These are social identity markers that people describe themselves as based on their own persistent and enduring attraction patterns.

It is really fucking insecure to try to tell other people how they should identify themselves. And frankly, it's none of your fucking business.

100%...and thank you

 

[Teague]

Sir you're obviously not gay.

Exactly. I am homoflexible.