Do Gay Men Play by a Different Set of Rules?
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I see your point but keep in mind that straight men have something like 98% of the female population to choose from whereas gay men have only about 2% of the male population to choose from. So overall, your opportunities to meet someone are much, much greater.
Balljunkie
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carnut64, I agree with you. Every gay guy that I meet wants to give up on guys because the very things that you are saying. And Meniscus, I agree about it being such a small pool.
Now add in these factors to make the pool smaller: a guy that is actually doing something with his life, you don't have to support, doesn't have an addiction (my current ex is a major cokehead), wasn't a former escort (another one of my exes), and stable.
Now add in these factors to make the pool smaller: a guy that is actually doing something with his life, you don't have to support, doesn't have an addiction (my current ex is a major cokehead), wasn't a former escort (another one of my exes), and stable.
Yes, all of which are among the reasons I'm still single at my age.
The big mystery to me, and this is a bit off-topic, is where have all the other gay men my age disappeared to? I meet lots of gay men in their 20s, especially their early 20s, but where do they go when they get to be my age? I suppose they all go off to a big city somewhere.
Bbucko
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When I was growing up as a teenager in the 70s in Metro Boston (which then as now had a thriving gay population), I was very much influenced by Edmond White's book The Joy of Gay Sex.
In addition to various sex tips and an overall feeling of positive reinforcement regarding the exploration of sexuality in general and gay sexuality in particular, he had much to say about the "rules" society imposes on human sexuality and a gay man's place in that regard:
The Joy of Gay Sex gives leads, advice, reassurance on doctors as well as on cruising, on guilt as well as hustlers, on friendship, trade, bars, threesomes, lubricants, relaxation, and consciousness raising. It deals at length with performance anxiety and the curing of sexual dysfunction, following adaptations of the Masters and Johnson's techniques. Perhaps most important of all, this book denies that gays have to follow the straight world's code of one-to-one relationships, even though we are all indoctrinated with such ideals from birth. What is proposed instead is a system of creative relationships reflecting emotional, social and sexual realities.
I found it all immensely liberating to read in print what I'd instinctually believed to be true. And in as much as the "rule" becomes "make your own with the men with whom you choose to partner", it was vastly influential for hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of gay men.
Ed White took a lot of heat a few years later by people who misunderstood his message and who blamed the spread of HIV/AIDS on his brand of guilt-free hedonism. Guilt does not protect one against STDs and shame isn't a prerequisite for a "healthy balanced attitude" toward sex.
When I read posts by Industrialsized and DC_DEEP I am immediately struck by how we, as peers, have been influenced by Ed White and the book he published thirty years ago.
In addition to various sex tips and an overall feeling of positive reinforcement regarding the exploration of sexuality in general and gay sexuality in particular, he had much to say about the "rules" society imposes on human sexuality and a gay man's place in that regard:
The Joy of Gay Sex gives leads, advice, reassurance on doctors as well as on cruising, on guilt as well as hustlers, on friendship, trade, bars, threesomes, lubricants, relaxation, and consciousness raising. It deals at length with performance anxiety and the curing of sexual dysfunction, following adaptations of the Masters and Johnson's techniques. Perhaps most important of all, this book denies that gays have to follow the straight world's code of one-to-one relationships, even though we are all indoctrinated with such ideals from birth. What is proposed instead is a system of creative relationships reflecting emotional, social and sexual realities.
I found it all immensely liberating to read in print what I'd instinctually believed to be true. And in as much as the "rule" becomes "make your own with the men with whom you choose to partner", it was vastly influential for hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of gay men.
Ed White took a lot of heat a few years later by people who misunderstood his message and who blamed the spread of HIV/AIDS on his brand of guilt-free hedonism. Guilt does not protect one against STDs and shame isn't a prerequisite for a "healthy balanced attitude" toward sex.
When I read posts by Industrialsized and DC_DEEP I am immediately struck by how we, as peers, have been influenced by Ed White and the book he published thirty years ago.
B_Italian1
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"From Publishers Weekly
As the authors suggest in their introduction, some readers, gay and straight, will be offended by this book's nonjudgmental, even accepting attitude toward "the kinkier aspects of erotic life." These activities include sex with animals, sadomasochism and "intergenerational love affairs" such as the relationship between an 11-year-old boy and a 21-year-old man. These repugnant sections of this revised edition of a 1977 guide to male/male relationships mar an otherwise useful volume, with new and updated entries reflecting the AIDS crisis, safe-sex practices and the upsurge of gay political activism."
Yes gay men have sex like straight men would if women were like men. Just look at the rock stars they have as much sex with as many different women as gay men. Why? Because they can. Women lower the bar if the reward is greater.
So my question is, Do gay men really play by a different set of rules? Or is it just that left to your own devices most men, gay or straight will fuck anything, at any time with little regard as to the consequences?
It's not just gay. In the famous Spike Lee movie 'Jungle Fever' scene when the women were discussing men it was said:
I don't care, the best man...
it's hard for him to say no,
some pussy starin' him
in the face. I'm sorry,
I don't know the man that's been
born that's gonna say no...
he look around, nobody here...
he gonna fuck the pussy.
Jungle Fever Script - transcript from the screenplay and/or Spike Lee movie
I'd say the latter. I have posted this in other threads, but it is inconvenient for me to find and link it, so...So my question is, Do gay men really play by a different set of rules? Or is it just that left to your own devices most men, gay or straight will fuck anything, at any time with little regard as to the consequences?
For most of human existence, 60% of children died before their 5th birthday.
To insure the survival of their bloodlines, it was in the best interests for women to get the fathers of their children to be helpful in providing for them, so women tended to mate with one man and make sure he knew he was the father.
For the same reason, it was in the best interests of men to impregnate as many women as possible to up the odds.
Gay or straight, men have a greater urge to copulate with many partners.
A survey of straight and gay men and women found that straight women had more partners than gay women and gay men had more partners than straight men.
So straight women (who prefer to bond to one partner) have to put up with men (who prefer many partners) and gay men don't have the same bugaboo about monogamy.
Yes, there are exceptions. One of the gay men in this thread is not promiscuous. My straight GF likes swing clubs. Exceptions disprove the rule only when they are statistically significant.
Bbucko
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"From Publishers Weekly
As the authors suggest in their introduction, some readers, gay and straight, will be offended by this book's nonjudgmental, even accepting attitude toward "the kinkier aspects of erotic life." These activities include sex with animals, sadomasochism and "intergenerational love affairs" such as the relationship between an 11-year-old boy and a 21-year-old man. These repugnant sections of this revised edition of a 1977 guide to male/male relationships mar an otherwise useful volume, with new and updated entries reflecting the AIDS crisis, safe-sex practices and the upsurge of gay political activism."
What is the inference? Perhaps such posts as these reflect why you're considered:
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Fundamentally men are men whether gay or straight. The difference with gay couplings is that of course there are two men (so double the promiscuity?). We are discussing pure sex, after many disastrous false starts I am interested in the rules gay men play in the start up of a potential relationship. For example (of course there are no guarantees when meeting someone and it is about getting to know if you like them) but why do they say they want a relationship, show that they are interested in you, demonstrate that they are ineterested and within 2 weeks you never hear from them again. Short attention span I think. Sometimes future plans are discussed (by them not me) and then dumped without a word. This has happened to me 3 times this year, what am I doing wrong? (other than seeing men!). Needless to say I have given up and am enjoying being man free for a while. Don't get it
If someone has a copy of the rule book, please forward for when I feel like playing the game again, once my bruises are gone
If someone has a copy of the rule book, please forward for when I feel like playing the game again, once my bruises are gone
B_Italian1
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You've got to be kidding. Out of all the books out there you post a link to one that says:
"From Publishers Weekly
As the authors suggest in their introduction, some readers, gay and straight, will be offended by this book's nonjudgmental, even accepting attitude toward "the kinkier aspects of erotic life." These activities include sex with animals, sadomasochism and "intergenerational love affairs" such as the relationship between an 11-year-old boy and a 21-year-old man."
If you're going to link to a book, how about one with a more positive message? That stinks!
There you go again. Why do you care so much about homosexuality? Is it ruining America? Will God lift his hand of grace from our country because gay men and lesbians are living their lives openly, and discussing their sexuality and relationships in the same way heterosxuals do?
One cardinal law of LPSG: if there's a thread about gay sex, you can count on Italian978 to jump on it and spew some half-baked, ill-advised, judgemental misinformed ideas.
One cardinal law of LPSG: if there's a thread about gay sex, you can count on Italian978 to jump on it and spew some half-baked, ill-advised, judgemental misinformed ideas.
By the way, bbucko, you're totally hot. I would love to explore of The Joys Of Gay Sex with you.
This is a great thread; one that has a lot of relevance and the dialogue has been sincere and heartfelt. I would like to bring up some things that have only been touched on, but not fleshed out. Yes, gay men play by different rules. And there is a good reason for that. For a lot of gay men the rules the grew up with are forcefully thrown out the window for them. Their churches reject them (I was excommunicated from mine. Most all churches tell a gay man he is going to hell) Families reject you. (Most of my family members including my brothers will not talk to me and do not want me around. I am not invited to family events or family reunions.) Society tells you from the day you are born that you will get married and have a family. (The reason a lot of gay men marry thinking it will somehow make them straight and at least tolerate being with a woman only to find out that they are still gay and end up cheating on their wives, the DL, because they need that relationship with a man, hurting both innocent women and destroying families). So what is a gay man left with. Where are the rules he grew up with and was told he could rely on? Often he is forced to reevaluate all of societies rules for himself without any guidelines and often he ends up with a different set of rules than the ones given to him by society. And it is probably why the spectrum of acceptability for gay men as reflected in the vast variety of answers in this thread is so different than straight couples.
B_Italian1
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Are you that ignorant? I'm sure there are some really good books about homosexuality out there. Did you even read what Publishers Weekly said about that book? Probably not. I'm not sure how a book that promotes beastiality and sex between a 11 year old boy and 21 year old man is positive.
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I agree auncut10in and would go further to say that we sometimes break the rules/laws because many of us 'older' gay men remember when what was natural and loving to us was actually illegal. How can we respect the law and rules in general when something so fundamental to our being (ie love and our expression of it) is/was illegal?
Now we set our own rules as we have not had any model to follow, in regard to how a gay relationship ought to be formed. Basically if all the players are playing by the same rules, it has to be OK. Maybe in the future young gay men will aspire to marriage etc by seeing Sir Elton John but this is still a heterosexual construct. Who knows how we will evolve
Now we set our own rules as we have not had any model to follow, in regard to how a gay relationship ought to be formed. Basically if all the players are playing by the same rules, it has to be OK. Maybe in the future young gay men will aspire to marriage etc by seeing Sir Elton John but this is still a heterosexual construct. Who knows how we will evolve
Trust me, there are. Lots. You should read them instead of opining on things you clearly have no knowledge about. It really shows your ignorance.
And, Italian, for the record, the Joy of Gay Sex does NOT promote sex between an 11 year old and ANYONE else. I've read the book years ago. You should do the same before you start typing.
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