Do nice guys finish last? Why?

auspoz

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Ok. This is going to sound egotistical, but it happens to be true.

So all the guys I've fallen for have ended up choosing guys who are not what I'd call "nice guys". I'm smart, funny, interesting, not a troll, caring, compassionate and very successful in my field. It always hurts for me to hear they "love" me, but are not in love with me, then run off with some non-achiever and often fugly.

Am I doing it all wrong? Should I pretend to be dumb and a total bastard? I'm not succeeding by just being myself.

Particularly keen to hear from men who've had someone love them more than they like that guy.

Thoughts?
 
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socalfreak

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It all depends on the context/ situation ...
If you were opposite me in a jiu- jitsu tournament or playing hockey, I was one of the meanest, most vile, borderline sadistic people you'd ever meet....
But, there is absolutely NO way I could have gotten my girl to even look my way, if that's who I was all the time.
Maybe you're just attracted to jerks ..?

In any case,... just be yourself... your true self.
 

mistabobdobalina

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One of the female posters here posted an awesome reply to a question about "nice guys" a few weeks ago. I will try to find it... paraphrasing won't do it justice.

edit: I couldn't find it. Maybe they'll see this and repost.
 
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Exbiker

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The spaces in which people interact have multiple dimensions ...

- there is something about being "active" or "passive" ... a decision maker, or someone who just goes with the flow
- there is something about arrogance versus modesty ... you need to have some interests and passions, but not be ( or seem ) completely self-absorbed
- intellect focused on problem solving, factual recall etc. is only one kind. There can also be artistic, musical kinds, and emotional intelligence etc.
- you need to be ( or seem ) as focused on the other person, as much as on yourself. Self respect is important, but you need room for two people in your mind ... ? Do you listen enough ?
- some people find great looks, athleticism, great fashion sense etc. a little too threatening, and need someone they can perceive as less " full on " ... ?

... So, I'm not sure what ( if anything ) you are doing wrong.

But people are not projects.
 

KindlyJedi

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Yes, we do. We finish last. Being a good, or "nice", person means we don't lie, cheat, or steal. We don't take advantage of others. We have integrity, morals, ethics, honor.

A lot of people subconsiously view these traits as weaknesses, and are turned off by it.

Are you doing it all wrong? That depends on you. Can you give up part of yourself, your integrity, just for the sake of more sex or the hope people will percieve you differently? Are you even able to? I wasn't. Changing an integral part of your personality is very difficult.

In the end, it's not worth it, because you end up disliking yourself. You may get what you want out of it, but really, getting what you want by acting like a bastard only leads to eventual disappointment. I mean, do you really want to spend time with a partner who is most likely also going to lie, cheat, and steal? Who treats others less fortunate than themselves with disdain? Think about it.

Lao-Tzu said that if you worry about how people percieve you, you are giving them power over you.

Be yourself. It won't always work out, you might not always get what you want, and you may often finish last. But, you will be happier...and in the end you will meet a special person who cares about the real you and who admires you for the "nice guy" traits.
 

mistabobdobalina

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Yes, we do. We finish last. Being a good, or "nice", person means we don't lie, cheat, or steal. We don't take advantage of others. We have integrity, morals, ethics, honor.

A lot of people subconsiously view these traits as weaknesses, and are turned off by it.

No... that's not why. I said I wouldn't try to paraphrase, but since I can't find that post I will have to.

It's because "nice" guys often think they are owed a relationship because they feel that they've done someone a favor by being nice and expect something in return.

You can argue that's not how nice guys are, and those aren't real nice guys, but that's how a lot of them operate (the majority even). They pretend even to themselves that what they give is done charitably, but secretly there are invisible strings attached. If the object of their affection doesn't return it, they get bitchy... maybe to the person's face, but more likely they'll just come to a message board and bitch about it because they're "too nice" to ever say it to that person directly.

That is why nice guys finish last. Because they're less about mutually growing romantic interest and more about trying to "earn" romantic interest through payments of nice behavior, and you can't buy someone's affection (even with kindness).

You don't have to be an asshole to win women over, but it helps if you're capable of developing your own personality and interests and finding someone to whom you can relate well about them. If all you can do is sit idly by like an amorphous blob holding doors open and being a shoulder to lean on... that's nice and all, but who the hell is going to find that interesting.
 

KindlyJedi

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No... that's not why. I said I wouldn't try to paraphrase, but since I can't find that post I will have to.

It's because "nice" guys often think they are owed a relationship because they feel that they've done someone a favor by being nice and expect something in return.

You can argue that's not how nice guys are, and those aren't real nice guys, but that's how a lot of them operate (the majority even). They pretend even to themselves that what they give is done charitably, but secretly there are invisible strings attached. If the object of their affection doesn't return it, they get bitchy... maybe to the person's face, but more likely they'll just come to a message board and bitch about it because they're "too nice" to ever say it to that person directly.

That is why nice guys finish last. Because they're less about mutually growing romantic interest and more about trying to "earn" romantic interest through payments of nice behavior, and you can't buy someone's affection (even with kindness).

You don't have to be an asshole to win women over, but it helps if you're capable of developing your own personality and interests and finding someone to whom you can relate well about them. If all you can do is sit idly by like an amorphous blob holding doors open and being a shoulder to lean on... that's nice and all, but who the hell is going to find that interesting.

Ah, yes. Point taken. There are plenty of sycophants around, for sure. It's best to not try and use kindness that way, of course.

The point I was trying to get across in my post was that it's better to not try and change your self in order to achieve the respect of those who respect bad behavior. It's self-defeating. Don't act like a bastard just to get the respect of other bastards (or bitches/sluts, or whatever). It doesn't work. Either people will see through the act, or you will end up becoming a bitter curmudgeon full of self-loathing.
 

D_Ida_Ho

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Hells yeah nice guys finish last. Its always good to let/make your partner cum first. Really, its basic etiquette people.
 

tiggerpoo

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Yes, we do. We finish last. Being a good, or "nice", person means we don't lie, cheat, or steal. We don't take advantage of others. We have integrity, morals, ethics, honor.

A lot of people subconsiously view these traits as weaknesses, and are turned off by it.

Are you doing it all wrong? That depends on you. Can you give up part of yourself, your integrity, just for the sake of more sex or the hope people will percieve you differently? Are you even able to? I wasn't. Changing an integral part of your personality is very difficult.

In the end, it's not worth it, because you end up disliking yourself. You may get what you want out of it, but really, getting what you want by acting like a bastard only leads to eventual disappointment. I mean, do you really want to spend time with a partner who is most likely also going to lie, cheat, and steal? Who treats others less fortunate than themselves with disdain? Think about it.

Lao-Tzu said that if you worry about how people percieve you, you are giving them power over you.

Be yourself. It won't always work out, you might not always get what you want, and you may often finish last. But, you will be happier...and in the end you will meet a special person who cares about the real you and who admires you for the "nice guy" traits.

WOW, many a true word spoken here. Be true to yourself, that's winning.
All else is losing completely.
 

Daisy

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I have nothing to add because I do not believe for one fricken second that "nice guys" finish last

BUT...Im just happy to hear guys bitching about other guys in this context for once instead of women!
 

theplayerking

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Attraction is idiosyncratic and we each have our own list of deal-breakers. I know that my own list is so specific that it would be hypocritical to judge the guys who were not interested in me. I’m sure I’ve done the same to just as many—if not more.

In the end, personality has a lot to do with it, but I doubt if it’s as easy as being a “nice guy” or not. I suspect it’s something more intangible.
 

Dport

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Nice Guy is code for a guy who is way too nice.
A guy who has no edge to him whatsoever. No steel.
A guy who says "I don't care, whatever you want.", when all the woman wants is for him to take the lead and make a goddamn decision.
A guy who never tells a woman to get fucked, even when it's called for.
A wimp.
 

VirginStud_6

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Not sure about in bed, but so far I am proof nice guys do finish last, always getting passed up for the other guy and always getting friend zoned, I hate the friend zone
 

HunggGreek

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I think we need to make a clear distinction here. There's a difference between nice - a genuinely kind person and "nice" - a guy who pines after a girl while being her friend in the hopes of getting some and then gets angry when she doesn't see him as more than a friend.

I'll admit I've been guilty of being "nice" once or twice but there's no reason why you can't be a nice guy - kind sense - and still be confident and make your interest clear from the beginning.
 

ShannonH

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Nice guys often date other nice people. Jerks date jerks. Nice people date jerks and think they can help them, but jerks don't date nice people for very long. In the Punnett square of dating, you'll always get the best relationship with nice and nice. I suppose there's the odd case where a jerk actually turns nice because of a nice persons influence, and good on those nice folks who take the risk and give them the chance. If someone's truly nice, getting burned once in a while is a small price to pay for that.

It's normally something you don't describe yourself as, but since this is a forum I'll say that yes, I'm a pretty caring, honourable man. I can be extremely aggressive, passionate, and ambitious, but those aren't negative traits. I've dated only nice women in my life, though I've had sex with a few jerks. I figured out they were jerks pretty fast and never got attached.

Nice people definitely finish first. Nice people are the ones building loving families, supporting groups of wonderful friends who trust each other, and leading innovative new businesses because when it comes down to it, being an honourable human being is the only way you'll get the support necessary to do those things.

On the more prosperous side, jerks are often seen languishing in pointless middle-management positions, or at very best working their ass off to get in to some executive role. If wasting your precious life on being a cog in a corporate machine, and driving a slightly-faster-accelerating car, while never actually improving life for anyone is your measure of success, then odds are you're not as nice as you think you are.

Overwhelmingly, jerks don't even excel to that level. Every hoser who gets drunk and starts a knife fight is a jerk. You'll find no shortage of jerks in prisons, or being sued for child support by 3 different people at the same time.
 

mexdude

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They finish last because they are just afraid, fear is the real wall, somehow they believe that they are less because they are "nice" , and they project that sense of inferiority to others, you can be a decent man, and not being turned out by all women, i know it, since i once had no luck at all with females, then i changed my mind, and i started to see results, and nope, i didnt need to become a mean person.