Do religious people have the right to be homophobic?

[luka82]

I think that NO ONE should be homophobic in the 21st century!
Come on guys, and church itself has bigger problems than gays...
And I think they, often as they do, POP OUT the "gay question" when they have real problems they deal with...In Serbia we call that "the myth issue"...
For an example...
In 2009 there should have been a gay pride convention in Serbia, actually sponsored by our goverment, so all the bigots, pro nationalistic and homophobs talked about the "gay-pride problem" for months!!!!
And it worked prefectly-we didn`t talk about the pedo priest, we didn`t talk about poverty, we didn`t talk about war criminals that weren`t arrested!
As a result-gay pride didn`t take place, pedo priest and criminals are free, and some people still die of hunger...

 

[superbot]

To be homophobic and to disapprove of homomsexuality are two different things.I have known,over the years, several people who disaprove of my being gay but in no way homophobic,it's a case of agreeing to disagree.Thankfully,apart from one individual,it didn't matter in terms of friendship and the friendships have remained to this day.You'd have to be pretty dim not to realize that there are people who are not gay friendly and so long as they don't impinge on my life they can believe what they choose.Life is too short to worry about what each and every person on this planet think about me!!

 

[Maxime_]

I am Catholic and i also like men. My opinion is anyone is free to be omophobic and whatever as long as they don't hurt anyone (morally,phisically....). It is about freedom. I'd also say that Jesus has never taught people how to hate and discriminate others. He was born and firstly adored by shepherds,who were considered as the dregs of society and criminals. He took as his favourite disciple Mary of Magdala, a prostitute. So i don't think Jesus is telling anyone to discriminate and hate homosexuals. The Church is made of humans and is by definition "imperfect" and is subject to sin. We should all follow Jesus's example,instead.
Finally,i can say that the problem of many religious people is that they take litterally every word written in their Sacred Books. This is a big mistake,as in the spiritual world nothing is litteral and earthy. We all have to look and try to read between the lines...

 

[BigDallasDick8x6]

Blah blah blah ..... and then acting upon it?

Please catch up.

Why did you ask if you didn't want to hear the opinions??

Yes religious people have the right to be homophobic. We also have the right to call them bigots for that. The free exchange of ideas is always better in the long term. Sure there can be short term pain but eventually we get through it.

Even NON-religious people have the right to be homophobic. And don't kid yourself, many are. I like the way people start these threads with the presumption that it is only the religious community that acts a certain way. Just because the non-religious aren't organized into a group that you can easily label doesn't mean their individual actions aren't just as insidious.

People do not have the right to discriminate however. Homphobia is not synonymous with discrimination. If you don't like gay people and don't want to invite them to your dinner parties, then don't. We don't want to be there either because we are quite certain you didn't have a hairnet over your mullet when you were making the Hollandaise. However, if you are hiring people in some countries (unforntunately not in the US yet for the most part) you cannot refuse to hire them because they are gay.

There was a court case in the US many years ago where a group of people who worked in a munitions factory asked to have their Sabbath off. The owner refused and they asserted their legal remedies. The owner countered that they worked in a munitions factory so they couldn't be religious in the first place. The judge's decision was that the criterion has to be sincerity of belief. If they saw no problem making munitions but wanted to keep their Sabbath, that was their right and he found for the plaintiffs. I'm a peacenik myself so I don't think I could ever work in a munitions factory except in wartime (defense against a regime like Nazi Germany for example). However I am in no position to judge anyone else's beliefs. How much better the world would be if we would all honor each other's sincere beliefs (including atheism, which is also a belief).

Also, the great teachers of the various world religions for the most part have emphasized that religion is about making YOURSELF better. You aren't supposed to have religion as a means of improving other people. Those who go around trying to improve others and telling them how to live are not following the teachings of the founders of the religion they adhere too. The non-religious would also be well advised to work on their own self-improvement and not casting stones at those with whom they disagree, because they often suffer from the same intolerance that they accuse the faith community of.

 

[justasimpleguy]

Hiding bigotry, xenophobia and racism behind religion is a tradition older than sin. It's not very nice either.

 

[helgaleena]

Hiding bigotry, xenophobia and racism behind religion is a tradition older than sin. It's not very nice either.

We are agreed on this. May you be touched by the Noodley Appendage.

 

[Feral]

Well as a spiritual person that battels with SSA I can tell you all too clear that they don't have the right. The word of God says to hate the sin but love the person..Lets just say some ones friend is a junkie. Do you hate the person or do you hate the fact they can't stop? Ok now that is the basics of that should a brother cut ties with his brother because he his gay? The answer to all these are no but as we all know people will be people and the way I feel toward those who are of the same faith as me but are homophobic is oh well that's how they feel.Should it really matter if they are or arn't? On a side note for all those who wanna say easy and Jesus is your Lord have you forgotten that "All have fallen short of the glory? That your holy ways are as filthy rags next to his and yet he saved you while you was in your sin? Or maybe some of my brothers and sisters have forgotten that what you sow you shall reap..but i better leave that alone and be a good little church boy, but please realise that the last part was a reminder as to why we shouldn't be that way.

 

[D_Sparroe Spongecaques]

Of course not!

 

[invisibleman]

Religious and non-religious persons have a right to be homophobic. But they don't have a right to incite and/or inflict violence upon homosexuals.

But I think that homosexuals have a right to defend themselves though. Sometimes people don't really know homosexuals enough to know any better. Not too many people in religious institutions or without them...never really challenge the things they hear or read about homosexuals. Some could be homosexual themselves and not realize it.

My mom and dad didn't know anything about homosexuals.
All they thought about gay men and lesbians--- they wanted to be more like women and men respectively.

 

[dreamer20]

I am Catholic...Jesus has never taught people how to hate and discriminate others. He was born and firstly adored by shepherds,who were considered as the dregs of society and criminals. He took as his favourite disciple Mary of Magdala, a prostitute. So i don't think Jesus is telling anyone to discriminate and hate homosexuals...

Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute and shepherds were not the dregs of society in the ancient world according to scripture. Your first misconception came about because Pope Gregory the Great misidentified Mary Magdalene as a repentant adulteress and prostitute in the sixth century AD, and hence defamed her.
Mary Magdalene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are numerous scriptures which refer to God and his prophets as shepherds, and shepherds themselves, which show that this profession was considered noble and not at all criminal:

God?A Shepherd to Israel (Ezekiel 34) | Bible.org - Largest Bible Study Site

Tax collectors, however, were not thought highly of and despised:

Ancient Tax Collector (Bible History Online)

 

[superbot]

Hiding bigotry, xenophobia and racism behind religion is a tradition older than sin. It's not very nice either.

What religion are you talking about?

 

[Incocknito]

Religious practitioners and especially preachers are above the law. Watch the news.

They just say they're "sorry" and nothing more is ever done. Speaking mostly about child molestation within the Catholic church here but it applies to other transgressions they have perpetrated.

 

[dreamer20]

Religious practitioners and especially preachers are above the law. Watch the news.

They just say they're "sorry" and nothing more is ever done.

They aren't above the law according to the news from the Holy Crimes thread:

http://www.lpsg.org/163722-holy-crimes-batman.html

 

[helgaleena]

What religion are you talking about?

I do believe he meant ALL of them.

 

[Incocknito]

They aren't above the law according to the news from the Holy Crimes thread:

http://www.lpsg.org/163722-holy-crimes-batman.html

"Arrested" is not the same as "convicted" nor is it the same as "imprisoned". They are never punished in accordance with the law.

The one guy in that link who was imprisoned was already in prison. Those priests are immune from prosecution for their child sex crimes.

 

[798686]

Could put it another way... Do homophobic people have any right to be religious?

 

[dreamer20]

"Arrested" is not the same as "convicted" nor is it the same as "imprisoned". They are never punished in accordance with the law.

Never say never. The following links with convictions easily disprove that statement:

Examples of Republican hypocrisy on moral values - dKosopedia

Jim Bakker's fall from grace:

Jim Bakker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Sexual Abuse of Children by Protestant Ministers


"Vicar Rev Robin Everett of Castle Donnington, Leics, is convicted of indecently assaulting two young girls. (UK Telegraph, June 7, 2003)"


Church pledges thorough child abuse investigations | Society | The Guardian

 

[Drifterwood]

Homphobia is not synonymous with discrimination.

It is a crime within the law of my country with regard to actions that are discriminatory.

The ethical high ground is being claimed by a secular morality and religious morality is being found to fall short of that measure. That is the issue.

 

[B_RedDude]

I am no longer a believer, but I have a devoutly religious background (Roman Catholic). I am also gay.

From the perspective of my religious background, I believe that it is acceptable, in general, to make exceptions to laws to accommodate religious beliefs WHEN WITHOUT SUCH AN EXCEPTION, THE LAW WOULD REQUIRE A PERSON TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS MATERIALLY CONTRARY TO THOSE BELIEFS.

In the United States at least, the freedom to practice a religion is a right guaranteed to us by the 1st amendment to the Constitution. This, in and of itself, seems to me to be adequate justification for granting exceptions to legal requirements which are contrary to an individual or a church's beliefs (if the law would apply to an organization). Concepts of civil rights evolve, obviously, but our tradition in the U.S. is to protect the practice of religion ("free exercise thereof"), and until civil rights concepts have evolved to the point where this is no longer believed to be preferable, i.e., the Constitution is amended, citizens have no right to expect people to behave in ways, based on legal prescriptions, that are contrary to their religious beliefs, even if it means that the religious person or institution is permitted to discriminate when their religious practices are materially affected. I live in San Francisco, and some people here just don't get this.

I am prepared to have virtual rotten eggs thrown at me, but this is how I see it.

I am also opposed to hate crime legislation. Crime is crime. Governments do not have the right to tell people how to feel (even if they hate gay people, as long as they don't beat them up, which is a crime no matter who the victim is).

 

[AquaEyes11010]

I am no longer a believer, but I have a devoutly religious background (Roman Catholic). I am also gay.

From the perspective of my religious background, I believe that it is acceptable, in general, to make exceptions to laws to accommodate religious beliefs WHEN WITHOUT SUCH AN EXCEPTION, THE LAW WOULD REQUIRE A PERSON TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS MATERIALLY CONTRARY TO THOSE BELIEFS.

In the United States at least, the freedom to practice a religion is a right guaranteed to us by the 1st amendment to the Constitution. This, in and of itself, seems to me to be adequate justification for granting exceptions to legal requirements which are contrary to an individual or a church's beliefs (if the law would apply to an organization). Concepts of civil rights evolve, obviously, but our tradition in the U.S. is to protect the practice of religion ("free exercise thereof"), and until civil rights concepts have evolved to the point where this is no longer believed to be preferable, i.e., the Constitution is amended, citizens have no right to expect people to behave in ways, based on legal prescriptions, that are contrary to their religious beliefs, even if it means that the religious person or institution is permitted to discriminate when their religious practices are materially affected. I live in San Francisco, and some people here just don't get this.

I am prepared to have virtual rotten eggs thrown at me, but this is how I see it.

I am also opposed to hate crime legislation. Crime is crime. Governments do not have the right to tell people how to feel (even if they hate gay people, as long as they don't beat them up, which is a crime no matter who the victim is).

You're mixing up the concepts of behavior and feelings. We can't legislate feelings, but behavior is different. Referring back to my previous post, if a Mormon cited religious beliefs for not hiring a black person, he would still be held liable for violating the civil rights laws. Religious practices are protected as long as they do not violate the rights of another individual not sharing the same religious preference.